Human Rights Are Red Tape | Stalin: Famine (Part 2)

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0:39A more honest truth. A fingerprint, a follicle. The directionality of a drop of blood leading me to the culprit of the crime. Though when I find who the murderer is, I force them to open their eyes and look at what they've done. Dexter Resurrection. New season now streaming on the Paramount Plus Premium Plan. Glamour. The new Eau de Parfum by Estée Lauder. An amber floral fragrance with a gourmand twist. With notes of macaron rose accord, amber embrace accord, and shimmering patchouli. A glimmer is a small, unexpected moment of joy that shifts your energy and how you feel. A scent to be felt, remembered, and shared. Discover more at EstéeLauder.com. What makes you glimmer? Welcome back to FinVersus History. Horatio Gould is here.

1:45All you have to be mad is only game. And it's part two of the Stalin story. Yeah. So we left off. Stalin had risen to power. He had been by Lenin's side as he had a series of strokes. And thankfully, he'd got rid of Trotsky. Yeah. This is what I'd do to you, by the way. Really? If you were ailing, I think I'd startle in it. Do you think? Yeah, you'd be begging to make sure that I don't, you know, take over. But I'd be just, you know, you can't speak. You're Elvis on the toilet. Yeah. But I can eat, though. You can eat. Well, I'm feeding you. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I'm slagging Amanda. I'm ringing the bell going, no, no, no. He's just going to make this podcast. I'm calling Amanda. He's just going to rank chat GPT dictators.

2:29It's always going to be his ranking. He can't do this. I'm calling Amanda a cow. That's my job. But yeah, this is the famine episode. And I think in the kind of- No, in all seriousness, this is the famine episode. But- What a U-turn that was. With the sort of naughty history, dictators is your sort of first step in. But then I think famines... It then goes genocide, then it goes famines for the kind of Wikipedia scrolls. I don't know, would you find that? For the long kind of... A man-made famine. A man-made famine, sure. Yeah. Maybe, yeah, natural ones, less interesting. Yeah. But I guess, yeah, I'm just talking about those long scrolls where you first realise I really... Phoebe's just written, never a woman-made famine.

3:11Extremism's got to stop. Yeah, exactly. All right? She's a terrorist. Extremism has to stop. Yeah. Woman-made famine. Exactly. Every night's a woman-made famine. It's called girl dinner. Yeah. You don't fucking eat. Also, we don't see gender, so... Yes. No, it's never a woman-made famine. But the whole reason it's a famine is that men are starving. Because men don't starve. They feed themselves because they're competent beings. Right. Women, every day, they're a famine. It's a self-famining all the time. Autoerotic self-famination. Exactly. You know, as we've said many times, the suffragettes, it was just trying. You have to eat something, otherwise you'll die. Yeah. You know, as we've said many times, the suffragettes, it was just trying, you have to eat something,

3:46otherwise you'll die. Yeah. Idiots. Anyway, the reason this is a catastrophe is because lots of Ukrainian men starve. Right. Right, that's why it's notable. But you're right, famine is a big part of the... You've done a big Wikipedia scroll on famine, surely. Man-made famines. Yes. Yes, famine as a tool. Yeah. Yeah. Naturally occurring famines I don't really care about. Right. You know. But of course, a man-made famine but this is this is male true crime i feel this is like this is the long the stories of how it builds and stuff like that it feels it hits all the beats but just differently to jeffrey darmer it's just on a on a big scale you know yes exactly yeah so by the end of the 20s stalin uh is kind of lord of all he surveys

4:26yeah now he turns his attention to what he sees as the inadequacies of the soviet state now this is a for an absolutely phenomenal uh period of growth for the so this is where burnham is right now yes exactly on the brink of a man-made famine yeah Okay? Which is why we have to act now and get rid of Burnham. Okay? You thought trust was bad. Wait till this guy. Yeah. He's going to turn everything into Greggs. Right. That's his... He wants to requisition Pret and he wants to make it Greggs. Buckingham Palace is now Greggs. It's nothing sacred. Yeah. Pret's gone. Pret's the Kool-Ax. Yeah. Yeah. They killed the Pret class. The Pret class has been killed. That's me and you gone. Yeah. And now everyone's just a Gregg the kulaks. Yeah. They kill the Pret class. The Pret class has been killed.

5:05That's me and you gone. Yeah. And now everyone's just a Greggs shopper. Yeah. They've had to collectivise Pret into one massive Pret and they burn that. Anyway. So what Stalin will do over the course of this episode. Can we just take morality out of it? No morality for this Ukraine famine episode. Allegedly. Right. What Stalin does is phenomenal yeah in that he takes and essentially an agrarian pretty much a feudal society backwards society huge but backwards yeah uh over the course of 12 years yeah right he has made them an almost an atomic superpower I mean it is remarkable it's the fastest I sent you a chat GPT ranking yes you did it was a relevant one it was one of the best rankings you've sent

5:52yeah it was fastest industrializations of all time and top was Stalin with this which is the 12 years from 1928 to 1940 is the quickest industrialization of all time how did he do that we're going to find out well it doesn't matter all time. Of all time. How did he do that? We're going to find out. Well, it doesn't matter how he did it. The fact is he did it. And if you think about it, it ends in about 1940, just as Hitler invades Russia. Now, not only did he manage to do it in that extraordinary amount of time, if he hadn't have done it in that time, would they have been able to defeat the Nazis in Operation Barbarossa? Interesting. So maybe it could be his biggest achievement seen by many have done it in that time would they be able to defeat the nazis in operation barbarossa interesting

6:25you know so maybe he it could be his biggest achievement seen by many is that he won the world war ii and a lot of people say well how much is that him was he really great yeah he lost so many men is he actually a great leader but the actual credit he should be given is the fact that he industrialized so quickly that he made russia be able to defend itself against another industrial industrialized nation is the worse the better just the greater good the nazis were defeated right but for the price of um the russia stuff right and therefore it's the greater good he's doing the great greater good whatever saying whatever saying whatever as if I just said that you reacted at the end of that how we react

7:12you went you said that and then went what the fuck are you saying what the fuck is he talking about that's you a bit weird you went anyway is that the greater good who the fuck was that it was you it came out of your face you fucking idiot right so but yes the quickest industrialisation of all time yeah by quite a distance actually well the next quickest is South Korea it's 30 odd years nearly yeah so 12 years how do you turn the biggest country in the world to industrialise quicker than anyone's ever done before? Surely it's an easy job. Surely maybe it's just a good can-do attitude. I don't know. What would you say drives industrialization? What methods can you do? I guess it's having team spirit.

7:58You have to, there's some, right, you can't be too sensitive. Okay. When you're industrializing at this scale. Okay. Okay. Okay. There's a lot of... You have to be... You have to reach targets. You have to set achievable goals and you have to reach them by any means necessary. It's important. Goal setting is an important way of being productive, right? Manifesting. Cosmic ordering. Yes. Okay. You know, Noel Evans writes on his hand what he wants to happen in his life. Okay. It's called cosmic ordering. Right. And then it shall be so because he's written it on his hand. Yes. Okay. So yeah, he's manifesting his visual. Vision boards. Lots of Pinterest boards. So Stalin has a Pinterest board for his five-year plans.

8:35Yeah. And the mass industrialization of the Soviet Union. And I guess that is turning it steel production, you know, from agrarian society, I guess. Yeah. Is it on this vision board five million ukrainians starving i think that's no no because that's not part of the plan that's you know that's a necessary byproduct of industrialization yeah as we will find when burn eradicates the prep class yeah yeah and we're out all out on the street he'll be like well it was just necessary to get to where inevitably the world is going which is where everything is Greg's and as we have as you've said which I think is an undeniable fact any great achievement is done with some form of slavery any great industrial

9:13achievement HS2 is a great example of our lack of slavery red tape this is what happens when you try and do you say lack of slavery I say red tape right we can't enslave people well how am i meant to get anything done then how am i meant to build fucking anything yeah if you keep banning slavery the truth is hs2 is trying to do an infrastructure project with human rights that's what happens yeah exactly exactly so what what do you want britain what do you want do you want to to get to Birmingham in 40 minutes or not? Yeah. Because there's a lot of people wearing lanyards that aren't working. Yeah. Right? And also, they're mobilized because they're on scooters. All right? And they've kind of got a digger arm, exactly, because they've got one crutch.

9:59Right? So they're incredibly mobile lanyard class. Devastating lanyard class. Right? The British Seaside Cavalry requisition them. Yeah. Okay? And force them to dig with their crutches. Yeah. Whatever. incredibly mobile lanyard devastating lanyard class right the british seaside cavalry yeah requisition them yeah okay and force them to dig with their crutches whatever i don't understand how you build it so they could stand it they can stand up we know they could stand yeah take the lanyard off and stand up all right they're just trying to get on benefit of course they are of course they are they're trying to climb up the ladder through their own no one who's digging a pit actually has adhd right because you're not allowed to because you're digging

10:28was interestingly in the how do you pronounce it holodomor holodomor i'm going to say it wrong every time yeah not cart door that's very different the opposite of the holodomor is the cart door show him the cart door show him the holodomoror. I'm just saying, there's no ADHD in the Holodomor door. Absolutely not. Holodomor door. Yeah, we'll get to the Holodomor, but basically, Holodomor is the Ukrainian famine. I looked into this on Chachi VT because I was interested about the linguistics and the etymology of the words. Well, you're a Gemini guy. I'm a Gemini guy. Be honest. And you don't like Chachi VT because you think they're feminine. It's a gay woman in Chachi VT, whereas Gemini is a bloke.

11:06So I asked Gemini about the etymology of the word Holodomor because I thought it's interesting that there's the Holodomor and the Holocaust. And I thought, is there any kind of linguistic root? Hol. Hol. Any holes are gone. Right? Yeah. And it turns out it's a complete coincidence but turns out it's complete coincidence all right well i thought if you're interested if you're interested which i know our listeners are um holocaust is from the greek which means completely burnt that's what it means so like a ruined barbecue yeah okay whereas the holocaust at that flank whereas the holodomor means very hungry i think really it's completely starving so basically the ideal barbecue is somewhere in between the holodomor and the holocaust

11:56right you can't have all your guests turn up and there's no food so you can't serve them something that's completely burnt right so we're we're looking for a kind of middle area between the two. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I'm an amateur linguist, and I'll just show my working there. Listen your way to cash back. Earn unlimited 3% cash back on entertainment, streaming, even your Spotify subscription when you pay with the Venmo Visa credit card and its new rewards program. Plus, earn an extra 1% when you split purchases with friends. Learn more at venmo.com slash about slash credit card. The Venmo credit card is issued by Synchrony Bank pursuant to a license from Visa USA Incorporated. See Venmo credit card rewards program terms.

12:34Use of cash back is subject to the terms of the Venmo user agreement. Split transaction must be completed within 30 days of purchase. When the case goes cold, that's where I come in. A different breed of justice each clue building to a bigger story a more honest truth a fingerprint a follicle the directionality of a drop of blood leading me to the culprit of the crime though when i find who the murderer is i force them to open their eyes and look at what they've done. Dexter Resurrection. New season now streaming on the Paramount Plus Premium Plan. Glimmer. The new eau de parfum by Estee Lauder. An amber floral fragrance with a gourmand twist. With notes of macaron rose accord, amber embrace accord,

13:22and shimmering patchouli. A glimmer is a small, unexpected moment of joy that shifts your energy and how you feel. A scent to be felt, remembered, and shared. Discover more at Estee Lauder.com. What makes you glimmer? What's this, Charlie? It better be quick. There's so much history to get through. It's me digging a trench Why are you covered in poo? I don't need to ask that I don't imagine how you wake up To be fair This is what a lot of the gulags will be doing in this period Why are you in your own gulag in your spare time? Are you in a gulag? Look at the trees Where are you? Argentina Play that again Why are you in a self-imposed gulag in Argentina? It was horrible what are you doing there

14:06I was doing it to volunteer for a for who for a little sort of rapey farm man he had a he had a really young girlfriend then we had to leave what's he gonna do with that pit that you're doing what was it did you not ask no we got out of there it was was it weird yeah it was a bit much my friends were like I want to stay and I was like no my friends all wanted to leave and I was like we have to stay it's fucking insane and then I got convinced that we had to leave it was a bit much. Really? No, my friends all wanted to leave and I was like, we have to stay. This is fucking insane. And then I got convinced that we had to leave. It was a bit much. There was bed bugs. There was like weird... How much stuff are you sitting on?

14:31It's this fucking archive of insanity. But it is relevant to be fair because this is what the gulags did look like. Why is he doing that? What year is this? 2018. What, 2018? He's in a gulag. He would have been a good digger, I think, yeah as a sort of just nameless faceless guy to just dig a hole charlie is built for that why have you got mud on your back i don't know anyway listen so stalin in 1928 he throws lenin's new economic policy out the window and he says we're gonna have five-year plans yeah we're gonna in five years i want to achieve this right everything is targets everything is targets is everything yeah the origin of the five-year plan yes that's what this means it's what what's another five-year

15:13plan uh get marriage yeah no it's not that stalin's not made on a five-year plan in five years where i want to be i want to be married with kids okay that's on my vision board oh you mean when people just use that yeah yeah that's yeah that's a stalinism it's a stalinist trope yeah targets planning right wife at any cost i will kill whoever it takes to get a wife yeah uh two kids a dog and a and a lovely car that i'm leasing yeah yeah and a drive so the insurance is cheaper that's my five-year plan right yeah and i will kill a million ukrainians to make it happen um so the targets. That's my five-year plan. Right. Yeah. And I will kill a million Ukrainians to make it happen. So the targets he sets for the five-year plans

15:48are deliberately insane. Because this is, as you said, a very backward country. So in 29, he starts this new five-day working week called the Neprevyayka, where different workers take their rest day at different times. So factories continuously operate, but everyone hates it, so he abandons it um now that seems all right what do you mean everyone hates it they don't know what's coming though yeah but that seems like weird like that seems reasonable everyone's like we don't like it oh if you don't like it then we'll start there's no food yeah we'll fuck you then you'd be hungry um very reasonable from started the problem is that in order to basically like fast forward you know all they have is grain that's the only thing they produce is grain the breadbasket of

16:32europe is ukraine yeah which rhymes with grain that's why it's called that yeah you want grain ukraine right uh that's the advertising for ukraine you you grain ukraine grain anyway so all they have is grain so that's all they have to sell what Stalin wants is he wants machinery he wants expertise he thinks that as we said in the last episode Marxist physics or materialism or whatever fucking word Trotsky came up with is the end point is that everyone's in cities and the city, a working class factory worker is the proletariat. Marxists don't like peasants. It's the same with Mao, same with Lenin. So I don't come with Marxists. Because they view peasants as rural, small minded and obsessed with owning land.

17:21Right? Yes. Marxism is a theory that's written around the industrial proitaria. It's about factory workers. Because they have the ability to become class conscious in a way that peasants can't. Because they're too disparate and stupid and thick. Yeah. And you don't collectivise like you do in a factory. And they're all just trying to own land and have a small holding. Have a nice life. Yes. Yeah, exactly. And have holdings. So that's why both Mao and Stalin with their kind of grain thing, part of it is to sort of get rid of peasants as a class exactly so that he thinks that everything will get is get us to when we're all in cities so basically fuck the peasants fuck the countryside uh so he starts selling to be Fuck him, yeah? He sells grain in order.

18:05Did someone just fart? Did you just fart, Charlie? What was that noise? I actually don't know. I swear on the Bible. No, that was a notification, I think. Okay, well. My arse is notified. Maybe. There's a poo coming. Your phone just got a message, poo coming. Yeah, yeah. His arse is notified. Have you got a smart arse? You've got a link from your arse to your phone telling you when there a message poo coming yeah his arse just notified the room that he needs to shit smart arse you've got a link from your arse to your phone telling you when there's poo coming because your arse your arse is so baggy it doesn't register farts you've got to have some notification that tells you right please please

18:36you've got a famine to get through you've got a famine to get through can you stop farting right so Stalin's solution is to basically finance industrialization by selling out the farmers. Okay. So Clarkson would be livid. Oh, Clarkson would hate this episode. Yeah. Clarkson and Caleb. This is the opposite of Clarkson, this. Yeah. But Caleb is a kulak. Right. Yes, he is. Right. So grain is taken to feed the workforce. And what he does is he buys the state, requisitions the grain at artificially low prices. So the peasants don't have any food and they don't have the money for the food. Yeah. And what he does is he feeds the workers with their state sponsored grain meal. Yeah. That's all they get.

19:23Bread, I guess. Yeah. What are they eating? Yeah. What's the grain? What does the grain become? Does grain meal. That's all they get. Bread, I guess. What are they eating in Soviet? Yeah, what's the grain? What does the grain become? Does grain just become bread? It must do. Because it's all grain. So is that all just bread? Yeah, it must be. Because everything's about grain. Yeah, it is. It's not any other seeming food source. Like fish or cabbage. No. Where's that? Grain is good, though. Yeah, I know, but we just... Is this all about bread? Yes. Surely there's other stuff to... Most Soviet citizens love dark rye bread potatoes and cabbage supplemented by simple porridges but why is there not

19:49a potato famine like in Ireland and in many ways Ukraine is Russia's island it is in many ways yeah you know the Ukrainians Ukrainian comics don't need jokes because they're just charming aren't they so grain basically they also sell grain abroad because they're just charming aren't they so grain basically they also sell grain abroad so that they can get hard foreign currency which they can then purchase machine tools and industrial equipment basically Donald looks at Britain and France he's like well they're industrialised we need to get there how they become industrialised is that they've exploited their colonial empire we don't have a colonial empire we just have a massive country we've got a bunch of instead he's treating his own country

20:28like britain treats india that's the whole idea is that basically he's treating the rest of russia like the brits treat india yeah um you know giving them cricket yeah giving them railways it's brilliant so uh now stalin hates peasants, as you said, because he's a communist. And so he wants to eliminate the peasantry, which is not something you'll hear anyone run on now, the platform. I want to eliminate the peasantry. At Burnham's Labour Conference, he didn't say peasantry. Eliminate the peasantry. Eliminate, right. So these privately owned farms are to be replaced by the collective farm yeah okay and again this is not a kind of cool commune fucky thing where people middle class people are

21:14called wet bark and stuff like that exactly no no none of that no deodorant well there's no deodorant but that's not there's none of that i recently went to a wedding where there was no deodorant the whole thing ponged that was the theme theme. An unofficial theme, yeah. Subtext, that's subtext. Yeah, I'd argue it was quite bold, the smell. Anyway, so peasants would be brought together into these large agricultural units whose production would be supervised by the state. And so machinery like tractors, et cetera, would replace the traditional methods. And so this was called a kolkhoz, was it? And the people, the class, were called the kulaks. So what Stalin did was he says, right, this is the enemy

21:55of the state, the kulaks. So they're just successful farmers, kulaks? Yes, they are. So they're all farmers or is it just the ones who have done well at all they're doing well for themselves well yeah right if you want hs2 built yeah you have to just kill everyone in this path right right because they're doing well they're doing well apart from the really thick ones who are doing terribly they're brilliant than the ones who have shown any initiative yeah are stealing get rid of them yeah exactly so um what because what stalin will ultimately do is he'll make heroes out of people who just work so the guy called this is a bit later on in the 30s the guy called alexis to stack and or stakhanov who holds the record for the amount of coal mined

22:39in a single shift 102 tons of coal in six hours which is 14 times his required quota. Is it kind of like laser tag when you go there and you're like trying to beat the high scores and stuff? It's kind of incentivised like that. Fucking hell, he should dominate Oxford. I've talked about it before, but Laser Quest, Oxford lost to Green. Between the years of 2001 and about 2006. Prime Taylor. Absolute. It was a laser holocaust in there. Yeah. I was lining people up, getting them in the laser showers. But you were incentivized by the scoreboard, right? Yes, I was. That was the target, and beating your own PBs. I've got to beat 432. It's very Stakhanovite. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, Alexei Stakhanov

23:23basically becomes like a hero of the Soviet Union and they start this propaganda movement called the Stakhanovite movement, which so you'd have Stakhanovites in every industry and they'd be getting medals and shit and they'd be rewarded. But then they become a kind of like workman aristocracy. So they're then hated and resented and they get government favouritism. Anyway, it's meant to encourage people to yes become a staccato but it doesn't really work anyway so the kulaks are the problem as you say there's just successful farmers caleb from clarkson's farm must be liquidated yeah so they're rounded up and divided into categories so the most dangerous i.e the people who are really good and just want to carry on just shot

24:04shot shoot caleb get rid of him uh some have their property confiscated and they get deported to So the most dangerous, i.e. the people who are really good and just want to carry on. Just shot. Shot. Shoot Caleb. Get rid of him. Some have their property confiscated and they get deported to Siberia. Others are just resettled into labour colonies. So between 1930 and 1933, over 2 million people who were classed as gulags are deported. Now 100,000 are sent to the gulags. The gulags basically become this, I mean, you'd say northern powerhouse. 100%. Because if the gulag is the communist concentration camp, at least it's productive, you know? It's much more productive than the Auschwitz. There's another goal to it.

24:36Sorry, have you seen the video of the almost certainly Jewish woman complaining about the prices in the cafe Auschwitz? Yes, I have. Of course, we've been sent it. Don't worry, I'm across any of these things. Anything like this comes up, I'll be sent it 15 times in my DMs. And it's terrific. I just want to say it's terrific. She can't even say the word Auschwitz and she's complaining about the cost of a smoothie. Smoothie? Yeah. I don't think she does smoothies. I can understand why you're tea and coffee, but smoothie blending a banana Auschwitz yeah it's just a little jovial I think it should be a more austere cafe well everything is tasteless isn't it no rye bread and tea I think you can no because otherwise

25:17it's like an interactive experience yeah but you just don't want I don't know sorry have Sorry, did you close that? Is that still opening, is it? Yeah. Smooth. Well, I guess, yeah. Big orange and green smoothies. Sorry, are you saying... Tango ice blaster elsewhere. Are you saying the Nazis basically neutral bulleted the Jews? Is that what you're saying? Yeah, in many ways. Yeah, I guess so. It's a bit tasteless. Anyway. Ice cream van. Yeah, there is an ice cream van. You can ways. Yeah, I guess so. It's a bit tasteless. Anyway. Ice cream van. Yeah, there is an ice cream van. You can only think vanilla. It's hot. There's a heat wave. Yeah, I think just a small, simple, it shouldn't be many choices.

25:52You don't need like a huge, it shouldn't be an excellent cafe. It should just be functional, I believe. There's a way around it. What you don't want is for people to go on food tours. I'm going to the cafe. Yeah. Like the Auschwitz, whatever, the cafe is awesome. Unbelievable. This is my top tip. Top tip. Yeah. auschwitz do it quickly yeah you can you can you can do it you can do it in like an hour what's eating with todd he's got his big pulled pork burger and the way the cheese melt yeah yeah yeah you can't have yeah if I do top jaw and I say the cafe at Auschwitz best restaurant in the world you know it shouldn't be that you're right it shouldn't be that anyway if Stalin's watching this he's like

26:38can you not talk about my Auschwitz this is meant to be my episode how are we still talking about Hitler because he had more star quality sorry what about my Auschwitz are we still talking about Hitler? Because he had more star quality. Sorry. What about my Auschwitz? This whole episode is about my Auschwitz. Yeah, but people don't go and visit Gulag. Do you know about the White Sea Canal project? So this is one of the more notorious ones, right? Yes, I've got two pairs of pants on. Please continue. Yeah. So this was like especially brutal where they've got this thing where you have targets, right? But because you're not getting fed, the weaker you get, the more you get punished with higher,

27:09you get less food for how, if you don't reach targets. Oh, right. So they're getting hungrier. So they're doing less work. And then they're getting punished by having less food because they're not hitting the target. That's your cycle. So these people, so many people were dying in building this white sea canal that they became part of the concrete. Oh yeah. Because the bones just become, they literally just, yeah. in building this white sea canal that they became part of the concrete oh yeah yeah just becomes they literally just yeah but then they don't they then start actively going great because we can cut down on materials and so we'll just use the people building it uh and it kind of just it uh at

27:35enormous human cost they finally made this canal it's not even a good canal because it's not deep enough for proper ships to go through because the people digging it are like not even given proper so yeah yeah um but this is this is the thing you can get huge things done if you think human life is expedient yes this is another lesson of history yeah exactly uh and why do we keep having to learn it yeah you know there's a reason this country is flagging. But would you... As a Patreon member said to us on our cricket day out, no one wants to kill a million men anymore. No one wants to. And he's not wrong. He wasn't wrong. Human life has become too important. Yeah. Yeah. You've got air fryers.

28:20Exactly. You've got an air fryer and a flat screen telly. You're more valuable. It's more valuable. So that's why HS2 isn't happening. Would you say, so Stalin's industrialization was broad scale a success. Huge success. Yeah. Which you cannot say for Mao's. Would you say that Mao... Yeah, again. So Stalin actually had a lot more success where Mao tries to copy him and instead he's just having the starving. Well, as we said in the Pol Pot series, you know, it's Chinese communist whispers. Yes. Stalin, this is what it is. Mao's like, yeah, I got an idea. By the time he gets to Pol Pot, kill everyone with glasses, I don't know. And just start again. And he doesn't have, they're too, no one really understands,

28:59there's no movement for communism in Cambodia. Anyway, so collectivization provokes this huge resistance, obviously. So Soviet activists from cities arrived in Ukrainian villages to enforce the policy because Ukraine, as you said, is the breadbasket of Europe. And so peasants get summoned to face a Soviet official one-to-one and a pistol is placed on the table to basically say that if you join the collective farm uh we won't shoot you yeah uh and so rather than surrender their property peasants start destroying it they slaughter annoying i guess hey they are annoying i guess yeah and also they slaughter their own livestock rather than hand it over to the collective farms right which between

29:421928 and 33 the first five-year plan the number of cattle across the soviet union halves right right that's so that's a holocaust yeah that's um can we get the numbers up please how many cattle is that okay just as we must have made their name during the napoleon's invasion of russia we must move their name i don't know what it would be so soviet representatives get beaten and driven out of villages which then things start to ramp up We must move their name. I don't know what it would be. So Soviet representatives get beaten and driven out of villages, which then things start to ramp up, right? So they then sort of basically invade the peasantry, fucking drops from 70 million castle to 38 million.

30:19Christ. Incredible. So basically, peasants, you're taking away any incentive for them to work work which is the great critique or the great capitalist critique of communism is that um if the state is telling you to do something for a quota and you don't get any of it yourself then you're like i'm not fucking doing that i mean there is incentives yeah if you don't hit them all you'll die yeah but it's not you know i'll shoot you in the head if you don't do that. That's incentivising. It is, but are you also inciting rebellion? I feel G'd up. You know what? You've really motivated me there. Yeah, I'm ready to go to work today. Can I have some bread? No. Okay. I do need bread to work though. Yeah.

30:59Hey, if you hit your targets, then you won't be in the canal today. Check obesity rates in Ukraine in this period. Yep. We'd love to know, does Stalin conquer obesity amongst his many triumphs? You would say that he does, actually. Yes, I would say so. One man's Holodomor is another man's Zempik. Yeah. Is everyone really... You know, like, there's hangar. You know, you get hangry. Yes, I think. Are they absolutely hangry? I think it might be past hangry. Yeah. you get hangry. Yes, I think. Are they absolutely hangry? I think it might be past hangry. Yeah. They might be really upset. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really hanoid actually. Really fucking hanoid. Because when does hangar end, just leave and then you're just fucked?

31:37It's hlivid. They're hlivid. Hlivid, yeah. Hlivid. And that's what they're called. They're hlodomor. Yeah. A lot more of this. a lot of more of this yeah not more of this they're absolutely hick of it to be honest yeah they're hick of it I'm hick of it they've had enough so now Ukraine there's a crisis in 1932 right where the Soviet harvest in total was 40% below the previous year. Ukrainian harvest was 60% below. So now in this sort of context of selling grain abroad to buy machinery, Ukrainians themselves cutting their own cows to shit, you know, they don't help themselves burn their own farms, right? Anyway, local Ukrainian communist officials are saying these targets are impossible. In June 32, a senior Bolshevik, I don't even know how I'm saying that.

32:33H-R-Y-H-O-R-I-I. He writes to Stalin saying, we've greatly overdone it. His name sounds like a samurai committing harakiri. Yeah, it does. we've greatly overdone it. His name sounds like a samurai committing harakiri. He visited villages and finds that there's a considerable part of the countryside engulfed in famine. What does he mean by we've greatly overdone it? Is that three million people have starved to death? We've fucked it. Yeah, we've greatly overdone it. Yeah, I think we've overdone it. We had good intentions, but we fucked this. And so he appeals for urgent food relief and stalin refuses and said instead increases the quotas and made people personally responsible for meeting them tough on the causes of hunger tough on hunger tough on the causes of hunger

33:17yeah yeah tough for the causes of hunger yes sorry um yeah but that's what i like about stalin is everyone's like they think that it's ideological and they're like oh this hasn't worked everyone's starved and stanley was like you know what that was my plan all along that's when he realized that i'd actually it's gone exactly to plan no it's more just to like yeah yeah i don't care if they're starving where are we going yeah it's not about the journey it's about the destination yeah yeah stop dithering about the opposite of miley cyrus's decline yeah which her whole thing is it's not about the journey it's about the destination yeah yeah stop dithering about the opposite of miley cyrus is the climb yeah which her whole thing is it's not about how fast you get there

33:49it's not about what's waiting on the other side it's the climb whereas stalin says it's not about the climb yeah so cyrus is actually very anti-stalinist the real the real victory is all the people that starved along the way yeah yeah miley cyiley Cyrus was in Stalinist Russia, she would be executed for being anti-Stalinist. Well, she looks like a communist does nowadays. So, yeah. Do with that. Do with that what you want. The great decline in communism. From Stalin to Miley Cyrus. So, listen. By the summer of 1932, peasants are too weak to work. Too weak or too stubborn? Yeah. That's what Stalin says. Lazy. Yeah. Can or too stubborn? Yeah. That's what Stalin says. Lazy. Yeah. Can you not work? Yeah.

34:27Or won't you work? Yeah. It's the benefit system. It's benefit street. Can't cook, won't cook. So on the 7th of August 32, he introduces the 7 8th decree, which means any collective property, including food from a field, will result in 10 years imprisonment or execution. So if you take anything that's not yours for your own hunger. 10 years in a gulag. Or death. They also have these special steel poles. Do you know what these are? Yeah, yeah, yeah. To make sure people weren't hiding grain in the ground. It was designed so they could find out. Which I think is a bad vibe. Do you know what I mean? I think just just have one even to build one of those it just doesn't it feels like the vibes are really like there's not a lot of positive energy feels like overreach yeah yeah it just

35:15would make me feel a bit like i don't know so by the winter of 1932 famine is spreading across the soviet union and generations of ukrainians would call it the Holodomor, right? Which means death by hunger or killing by starvation. But this is completely hidden and so it doesn't become an international thing and it's hard to even talk about because the information is so... So let's talk about what starvation actually does to the body. Yeah. Okay. So first, the body burns through every bit of glucose it has. Yeah. Everything's about hunger. All thoughts are about food. At this point, this is just me when i wake up right as the reserves disappear the body begins consuming stored fat now i never got to that point right in my life um you have to wait 20 minutes at

35:57least i know i just can't i just can't i have to just muck bang pastries downstairs before i get to point three um now once the fat is exhausted, it starts consuming itself. Protein is stripped from muscle to keep the organs functioning. The body becomes skeletal. This is Finn skipping lunch. Yeah, exactly. This is meat-free Mondays for me. The body becomes skeletal and my legs and feet and abdomen swell because of the fluid. My skin becomes translucent. Rashes and lesions appear my immune system weakens dramatically right eventually the body can no longer sustain its basic functions but then i have a burger and it's fine but these guys don't sorry these guys their organs failed and they died it's pretty horrendous two months after uh without food so people are trying to

36:40escape ukraine uh hundreds of thousands people are abandoning their villages. 100,000 people fled between December and February. Right? So just in three months. Railway stations are filled with people looking for bread. They're bread mad. I mean, a lot of Russian history is about bread, isn't it? Because there's the bread protest in 1917. I think calling them bread mad is a little... They are mad for bread. I guess so. They are. I'm pushing back on this they're the opposite of white women they're they love bread yeah fine yeah i yeah it feels especially them trying to escape being forced back it feels real because they're the bread basket yeah it's pretty now they're just a basket yeah yeah right empty basket. Yeah. And trucks are moving through the cities collecting corpses.

37:26Yeah. So. It's so fucking bleak. There's not one nice thing that's happened here. Yeah. Apart from that one guy. What's his name? Stavonovic. Stakhanovic. That's the only positive thing I've seen in this entire period. It is so bleak. No, no, no, no, no, no. No. What's the end point? Right. Exactly. You know? Don't think about the now. Think about the future. Yes. Where are, no, no. No. What's the end point? Right, exactly. You know, don't think about the now. Think about the future. Where are we going? Yeah. Yeah. Starting or growing your own business can be intimidating and lonely at times. Your to-do list may feel endless with new tasks and lists can easily begin to overrun your life. So finding the right tool that not only helps you out,

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39:37Use of cash back is subject to the terms of the Venmo user agreement. Split transaction must be completed within 30 days of purchase. I don't know what I'm doing. Need a break. Forget it. I quit. Escape to Pluto TV. This is objectively fantastic. Relax into the movies and shows you already know and love all for free. Swing. Even our news is uplifting. You stay classy San Diego. Watch Tommy Boy, Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, Anchorman, The Legend of Ron Burgundy, The X-Files, Wayne's World, and so much more. We're not worthy! The best things on TV really are free. You just have to know where to look. Escape to Pluto TV. Stream now, pay never. People in Ukraine are eating moss, leaves, acorns, and shoes.

40:17But in the 30s they were doing this as well. They were boiling old bones in the hope of trying to get some kind of nourishment from them. They would boil belts and shoes so they could chew leather. Right. By the spring of 33, there is cannibalism. People start accompanying their children to school because there is fears that they will be kidnapped and eaten. Yeah. You'd have to say the government isn't working when people are trying to protect their kids from being kidnapped in the way of school and eaten. What does even school look like? I don't know how much is getting done. Jamie's school dinners? Yeah. Yeah. I don't think... It is Albert Fish. Everyone's Albert Fish. Yeah. Everyone's Albert Fish.

41:02It's a fishy in time. So Soviet authorities yeah the Soviets would say it's barbaric and like use it as racially profiling the Ukrainians like the Brits do with the Irish saying like look at these fucking savages eating their own which does feel a bit insult to injury to be honest well I mean don't eat don't eat your neighbour's kids right okay fine now the precise death toll remains contested. At least 5 million people died in the Soviet famine, but with Ukraine, they think about 3 million. 10% of the population disappears between 32 and 33, which is not as many cows. So I think really the Holodomor, you should take second place in the tragedy because the cows are the cows the holocaust the holocaust is first

41:47yeah um that's like that holocaust man yeah um so oh here we go the Holodomor Phoebe said the Holodomor that's pretty good yeah the Holodomor while the countryside is starving what's Stalin's home life like yes um I enjoyed this bit of the story yeah so um uh obviously senior communist officials have access to um nice shops and you're wearing you're one of your fanciest watches fancy watch because it's a communist episode and that is ultimately what happens every time communist happens is to go oh yeah nothing for you but i'll i'll have that yeah i'll have that i mean he's got a lot of work to do though he doesn't need to be sharp oh of course yeah your brain has to function yeah you know he's he's a he's got a lot of work to do, though. He doesn't need to be sharp. Oh, of course. Your brain has to function. He's

42:26a stout guy. He probably needs about 3,000 calories a day. Housing, Dachas, and Stalin's family lives within this world. Now, he married his second wife, Nadia, in 1918. She was 17 when they met and he was nearly 40. Ooh! Their daughter, Svetlana is born in 1926. Now we will deal with her because that's an amazing story on the Patreon. In the early 1930s, Stalin's marriage was quite volatile. Now, Nadia is disturbed by her husband's policies. Right. But that's not your business. Yes. That's work. Right. Okay. I feel like you're, you should, this isn't your. I don't want to take my work home with me. Yeah. And what I do you're you should this isn't your i don't want to take my work home with me yeah and what i do also you enjoying this daca yeah yeah do you like

43:11this life i built for you how do you think this all gets paid for yeah exactly so it's easy for you to sit there and judge who's fucking paying for what you're wearing right now exactly yeah yeah do you not like the things i buy you yeah yeah so the uh tension start to build now at a kremlin dinner in november 1932 right nadia makes an effort to dress nice for the occasion nice for once yeah sarman doesn't notice he spends the evening he's busy yeah he's got he's unwinding right he's drinking he's flirting with other people's wives you know because he's just being a bloke yeah uh he's drinking admittedly you like about him all right this is why i like this bit the story right so nadia's not drinking and he's like

43:50go on love fuck it come on have a drink come on um and she's being like uh sort of morose and so he starts flicking pieces of orange pill and cigarettes at her to attract her attention it's a party yeah fucking cheer up love it might never happen yeah anyway he goes hey you drink and she snaps back that her name was not hey and leaves the room and he's like fuck it I can't do anything right yeah can't say anything imagine the biggest eye roll of all time I imagine when she leaves thank god she's gone yeah absolute black hole sucking all the energy out of the evening anyway she then goes back to her black hole, sucking all the energy out of the evening. Anyway, she then goes back to her room

44:28and shoots herself in the heart. Yeah. Attention seeking. I mean, honestly, Christ, you've got to take responsibility for your own unhappiness. Yeah. It can't be up to me. Yeah. While she's doing that, he's having an affair, but that's besides the point. He's playing grandmas. Yeah, he's fucking someone in his DACAacha but that's what it's for yeah anyway he sees it as an act of betrayal and never visits her grave awesome yeah passive aggressive with his don't dead wife yeah like that wife called herself well you you just like you think on it you lie there yeah um so uh supposedly uh he does take us quite hard supposedly but he takes it hard in a way it's not feeling grief it's feeling just

45:09it's all betrayal all his emotions are betrayal yeah feeling betrayed is horrible though because he's also if you compare he had his first wife which was when he was 20 and she was 18 I forgot what her name was I think she was Georgian and he says that she was the only one who could soften him because obviously at every point he tries to people try and blame a different thing as to why he ends up being the way he is when she died he threw himself on her coffin that's right had to be dragged away yeah so he views it as that was his true love and sort of never loved again yeah very much casino royale daniel craig that kato yeah oj's poor boy right OJ's pool boy makes another appearance yeah so

45:47so this famine is going on yeah and Stalin's official explanation is saying well this is all the Kulak's fault they're hoarding grain and they're sabotaging their collectivization yeah and so officials are forbidden from using the word famine and so doctors are told not to record starvation as a cause of death sup famine yeah so no one would say that anymore no this is in 37 there's a census And so doctors are told not to record starvation as a cause of death. Sup, famine? Yeah. No one would say that anymore. No. In 37, there's a census, and the population stands at around 8 million below the expected figure. So Stalin suppresses the census and then punishes those who produced it. Yeah, it kills them.

46:19Yes. Kind of great. That's another great Stalin move. Don't like those numbers. Bang. Sam Allardyce. Get rid of it. Get it up the pitch. Fuck it off. So't like those numbers, bang. Sam Allardyce. Yeah. Get rid of it. Get it up the pitch. Fuck it off. So there are some journalists, some foreign journalists, that try and report about the famine. There's a guy called Walter Durante who had heard something was going on. And so he's, is he American, that guy? So he works for the New York Times? Yeah. So he is publicly portraying the economic transformation as quite favourable. Yeah. And he downplays the reports of masturbation, even though he knew the death toll was in the millions and had gone and seen it and stuff.

46:54It's very much Tucker on Putin. Yeah. If you want to get the exclusive access, if you want the big interview, you've got to be positive. Piers Morgan. Yeah. That's the way to do it. You have to just kind of lie, because you get you got a fucking two hour sit down with putin he's not lying though is he's just not telling all of the truth that's right because the economic transformation is remarkable yeah no no no it is it is yeah gdp is is growing gdp per head i guess the heads are well yeah because no it is growing because the heads have gone down so it's a frack that's fallen off yeah the heads are hungry and they've fallen off but it doesn't matter the gdp you know gdp at all costs growth at all costs yes

47:36it was very capitalist yeah i mean this is trust stuff yeah you know no one's prepared to kill a million men so lessonsons of history. Look, if you want to get to Birmingham in 40 minutes, you know what you have to do. Anyway. Now, there's a Welsh journalist called Gareth Jones. Probably the Welsh... I think everyone in Wales is called that at some point. If you look at the Welsh rugby team, they're all called Gareth Jones. Yeah, the Welsh census is just Gareth Jones times 3 million. Anyway, so he breaks the silence. He goes from Moscow towards Kharkiv, which is in Ukraine, isn't it? And so rather than staying in the controlled world that was being shown to foreign correspondents, he gets off the train.

48:14He takes the scenic route. walks to Ukrainian villages, and he goes, fuck me, man. Jesus. Fucking hell. Jesus Christ. Here's what I don't eat in a day. Gutted. Run glass. Jesus Christ here's what I don't eat in a day gutted wrong glass empty glass gutted double parked not parked at all not parked at all nothing's parked so he says famine Sandra would be fascinating to see what happens to Sandra in a famine it would be fascinating to see what happens to Sandro in a famine it would be fascinating to see what's under in a famine yeah so basically he was on a he was on a train and there's a communist saying to him there's no famine so he flings across the bread into a spittoon like a dish you spit in

48:59and then a peasant runs up and eats it ravenously he then throws a bit of orange peel into it and again the peasant just downs it yeah um ukrainian eating with todd yeah uh but also ukrainian food is is weird to western eyes so at this point you're thinking is this just i did go to ukraine and the dish i had was um what's the cabbage soup called? Borscht. Borscht out of a cabbage. There was not even a, they just had a massive cabbage, they cut it open. They like doing that. In Lithuania I had bread soup and a loaf of bread and I was like this is guys, crockery. I was in Kiev, I thought I was ordering eggs but it was actually a mistranslation and I ate testicles. So it's the sort of, I mean,

49:46it's the famine cuisine. Whenever you're trying this sort of stuff, it's, you know, part of the reason maybe British cuisine is less exciting, quite bland, is there's not been big famines here in recent history. I'd say Irish cuisine is not that interesting. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. Let's not, you know. Come on, guys. You didn't even fucking get, like, fucking Charlemagne out of it. Fuck you didn't even fucking get it like fucking Fucking test look at Chinese cuisine. It's phenomenal after the Great Leap Forward. Yeah Testicles are kind of eggs, but like boy eggs, and that's probably what the link was Etymologically yeah, yeah They're the inverse of an egg really They're not the opposite of an egg to the inverse of an egg really they're not the opposite of an egg they're the inverse

50:26of an egg are they not well I don't think you can destroy an egg with a testicle if that's what you mean no but you can complete one anyway so Jones Gareth Jones holds a press conference in Berlinlin and tells the world that millions are starving and also they're eating boy eggs over there it's disgusting yeah um and durantee fucking says that jones is exaggerating and does not understand the reality of soviet development which is interesting so even when it's out in the open durantee's like yeah but and he's new at times they're like well yeah, but guys. And he's New York Times, so they're like, well, I trust him. And so Duranty had a better reputation. So his version of events kind of wins.

51:10Now, later, while working in Mongolia, he's kidnapped and murdered at age 29, which some attribute to Stalin and Soviet intelligence. Why is he in Mongolia in 1935? Yeah. What are you doing there? Yeah, looking for trouble. So the famine deepens, and this becomes part of a wider campaign to force the countryside into submission. And so churches are closed. Ukrainian folk music is banned. Yeah, because it's a symbol of nationalism. Anything culturally associated with the Ukrainian peasantry is suppressed. Ethnic Russians are moved into depopulated areas of Ukraine and given farms. Similar to Ireland, Northernireland wouldn't you say yes the plantations but also this is why this is the start of the tensions and why ukraine has

51:52such a large ethnic russian population which putin is now seizing for sure causes belly anyway the famine kind of ends in 33 when they realize they can eat other stuff apart from cabbage or whatever and food grain starts coming back and to be fair to Stalin he has largely achieved his objectives the five year plan was a success yeah alright he's broken peasant resistance and he has control of agricultural production and you know Magnitogorsk do you know about Magnitogorsk no it's this insane city that he builds this like sort of it's a bit like Port Talbot where is it it's in somewhere in Russia yeah And you know, Magnitogorsk. Do you know about Magnitogorsk? No. It's this insane city that he builds.

52:27It's a bit like Port Talbot. Where is it? It's in somewhere in Russia. Yeah, it's this mad... Monumental Stalinist architecture. Is it real? Yeah, it's a city that basically all of them... It produces steel. Is it still functioning? This is all questions for Charlie. He's just staring at the screen. Like it's a plastic bag in American Beauty. Largest steel producer in a global... Whereabouts is it? It still actively remains a major. Where is it? questions for charlie he's just staring at the screen like it's a plastic bag in american beauty larger steel producer in a global whereabouts is it it's still actively remains where is it it's in um no but i mean the banks the euro river okay right interesting yeah yeah so he builds that

52:55and it's like uh when's the trans-siberian railway built because my my dad's new wife's dad helped build that in siberia so when what era is that your grandpa-in-law my grandpa-in-law your step-grandfather my step-grand i guess is that true is that is that is it genuinely my step-granddad well she's your step-mom yeah and it's it's her dad yeah so my step-granddad no step-great-granddad my step was it her dad her granddad her her dad step grandad yeah your step grandad damn I've got a step granny called Patricia step grandad gets stuck in a washing machine don't give a fuck about Patricia I'm not gonna lie I think it was probably your step great grandad because it was it was night in between

53:38yeah it was step great grandad she might be listening step great grandad gets stuck in a washing machine is a really really bad film it's just sad yeah get stuck in the in the train tracks build the Trans-Siberian Railway don't rape that old man out of that washing machine takes no time though he's trying to wake up what do you mean takes no time it'll take no time to get him out of there that's all like putty okay yeah it's true this okay the Harvest improves in 33 as well so you know things can only get better yeah it's that sort of stuff um and you know yes millions are dead displaced and have been deported but this is the price of progress yeah okay this is where we get the quote from style and the most famous quote. Yeah.

54:25The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of a million is a statistic. Spitting bars. Yeah. He said this at Churchill, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Shrugged. Yeah. Because once you've killed one, you know, it's about the end goal. Yeah. It's about HS2. So Stalin has broken the back of the Ukrainians. Their back's been blown out. Their backs. They've blown out the back of the Ukrainians uh their backs been blown out their backs they've blown out the backs of the bread basket and the tension is now turning towards the communist party itself and the people closest to him in our next episode we will explore say it with me brothers the great terror because that wasn't a great terror in any way no but now we're actually

55:05going to go into something terrible the assassination of that prick trotsky and the nazi soviet pact oh god and barbara rossa oh fuck i'm just gonna bust yeah right that's already on the patreon uh along with uh the entirety of this four-part series £3 a month join us yeah instant access yeah come everywhere on the Patreon right that's it for this episode for one of the biggest episodes to date it's great it doesn't get bigger than this it's Hitler it's Stalin it's the great terror it's Hitler it's Stalin it's Operation Barbarossa it's Ronaldo and Messi playing on the same team but the El Clasico you know key era it is El Clasico it's potentially it's yeah it's Operation Barbarossa it's Ronaldo and Messi playing on the same team but the El Clasico

55:45you know key era it is El Clasico it's potentially our biggest ever episode no it could be why would you say that well probably isn't it's part three of the maybe yeah but what happens in it there's a lot going on in part three yeah I'm excited we'll see you there bye three yeah i'm excited we'll see you there goodbye when the case goes cold that's where I come in. A different breed of justice. Each clue building to a bigger story. A more honest truth. A fingerprint, a follicle. The directionality of a drop of blood. Leading me to the culprit of the crime. Though when I find who the murderer is, I force them to open their eyes and look at what they've done. Dexter Resurrection. New season now streaming

56:50on the Paramount Plus Premium Plan. Glimmer. The new eau de parfum by Estée Lauder. An amber floral fragrance with a gourmand twist. With notes of macaron rose accord, amber embrace accord, and shimmering patchouli. A glimmer is a small, unexpected moment of joy that shifts your energy and how you feel. A scent to be felt, remembered, and shared. Discover more at Estee Lauder.com. What makes you glimmer? It's getting chilly outside. But you know what that means. It's time to cozy up with Panera Bread. Let's get toasty. Cheesy. Oh, hello, broccoli cheddar soup in a red bowl. How about melty? Okay, Chipotle chicken avo melt. It's dipping bread in soupy goodness season. Oh yeah, we are so back.

57:48It's Panera season. Order now.