JRE MMA Show #187 with Robert Whittaker

0:00Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night! All day! All right. What's up, Robert? Good to see you, brother. What's happening? Thank you so much for having me. And I want to thank you for last night. Oh, my pleasure. Glad you had a good time. Seeing the show was just unbelievable. It was my first time at a comedy club. Ever? Ever. Oh, wow. Yeah, it blew my pleasure. Glad you had a good time. Seeing the show was just unbelievable. It was my first time at a comedy club. Ever? Ever. Oh, wow. Yeah, it blew my mind. There's some good comedy clubs in Australia. In Sydney, they have the Comics Lounge. That's a great spot. Yeah, no, I've heard of them.

0:34I just never found the time to try and juggle it. I don't know how the fuck you guys have time for anything. You know, and you have a bunch of kids, married, like an actual life outside of fighting. Like, I don't know how you have any time. That's kind of the balancing act, isn't it? That's why you see, that's why I have nothing but respect for the guys that hang in there and fight for any long amount of years. It's because life goes on around it. And from when I started, like, 20, I had no kids to when i'm now i'm married with six kids and mortgages and their life you know you kind of juggle it around just balancing act that's what a big shift 20 single wild man just out there fighting and now here you are six kids

1:19mortgage businesses like you got this supplement thing you're doing now with musashi you got your own supplement line so it's a lot of work man it's a lot a lot of activity a lot of things going on a lot of balls juggling yeah you gotta gotta stay busy though right it's like idle hands especially yeah and you'd get this like when i guess like with performing performance sports and like the the guillotine's kind of always over your head, right? So you've kind of always got to stay busy, keep moving. It's like a shark. Otherwise, you just kind of drown. For sure. Especially in combat sports. Especially considering the fact that even in the outlier end, you only have a certain amount of time. Like true outliers in the sport, I think one of the true outliers in the sport right now is Jared Cannoneer.

2:07He's one of the outliers because that dude is, how old is he now? 41, 42, somewhere. How old is Jared Cannoneer, young Jamie? 42. Still shredded. Like anybody's business. Still shredded. Still works's business. Still shredded. Still works out like a fucking demon. Still has insane cardio and drive. Still wins fights in the trenches. Yeah. Like that fight with Gregory Rodriguez. He was getting blasted in that first round. It looked bad. Comes on and wins it in the trenches and stops him. Even when he loses, it's not like... Not by much. Yeah, it's not by much at all. Like when he lost to RoboCop, it was like... When did he lose to him? Because he just beat him recently. Did he? Yeah. Who did he lose to then?

2:57Because Gregory Rodriguez is RoboCop. So he just stopped him recently. He was getting beaten up in the first round. And RoboCop is one of those guys that cuts. It was like a kind of controversial stoppage. I forget who it was. Oh, I know who you're talking about. It wasn't him. It was, God, what was the one? I think it was Imamov. Maybe, maybe. I think Imamov was the... Go back to that, please. Look at the amount of fights he's had since then. And that's the one that's in my head fresh. Yeah, I don't remember the one that was a controversial stoppage. I'm pretty sure it was Imavov. 90% sure. Michael Page was a bad fight for him. Yeah, that was a bad fight for him. Michael Page seems like the most annoying guy to fight ever.

3:49Oh, dude. Well, first of all, when he was at, I think 170 is really his weight class. And he's also another guy that's like, he's 40 now or 39. You know, when he was at 170, fucking good luck. Good luck even touching that too fast too fast too much speed at 185 too he did well i think the thing about 185 though is the grapplers yeah if they get a hold of him it's just a different world yeah you know because that's the only guy that ever beat him in the ufc was he and gary and the way he did it was by grappling yeah you know and just counter striking setting up his shots a little bit. He's just, I've always said, I said it from early on, that I think that that's a missing link in MMA is point fighting.

4:34These guys who really know how to do that style and then learn the other things. Because that style is so, you cover so much distance so quickly. And they're so good at avoiding shots and then leaping in. And they're so good at timing and scoring. And if you could score with one shot like those guys do, they leap in and score with one. If you're a good combination fighter, once you connect once, then the other shots can flow from that. If you develop that style on top of that original point fighting style. A hundred percent. And, like, the huge factor in all this is, like, they're such small gloves. Yeah. A touch can stop you. Yep. Like, that's all you need. And that's kind of been my approach with how my fight style is just to be fast.

5:21Just land my hands. Well, you have a very similar style in a lot of ways. Like, you're very wide stance. You have a lot of, you blitz a lot. You leap in and leap out. Very fast and agile. Yeah. I feel like that's a great style also to, like, avoid. Like, some of these fights, some guys, like, you see these fights where they just, like, fucking stand right in front of each other. And some guys thrive on it. You know, it's like that's their thing. They like to just stand in the pocket and blast it out but for how long i know you know and tell me if you think he's an outlier as well as that king green oh god super outlier because like i wasn't on his wagon but then then he changed his name it's like he started going

6:02downhill and like everyone was just okay he going to just fade into obscurity. You know, let's leave it as that. He changes his name, starts piecing people up. Yeah. Starts winning by TKOs. And you're like, he's back. I'm so back. At 40. Yeah. I know. Well, he just has a real love of the game. He really does love fighting. He loves it. Again, an invasion fighter. Mm-hmm. Right? And weird style, hands down. And you think he's there, and the punches are coming at weird angles. Yeah. He's popping you from all sorts of ways, and talking shit the entire time. You're like, I can't believe this guy's talking shit to me. I've never understood guys that can do that. Like Holland. Oh, he's one of the best.

6:39I remember. I was watching. He was doing some research for the next card, and he was setting up a basketball game with one of the guys he was fighting. It just blows my mind. I don't know how you can get in that headspace, because when I'm in there, I'm on the roller coaster of pain. I'm just angry. Well, he's having fun. Yeah. And, you know, you said something interesting last night. You said, like, a happy Robert is a fucking dangerous Robert. Yeah. We were talking about Carlos Prates. And Carlos Prates looks like he's always having fun in there. He's so relaxed. Yeah. And we were talking about his time in Thailand when he moved there. And he essentially had, over the course of something like six years, he had 100 Muay Thai fights and kickboxing fights, which is crazy.

7:26That's wild because Muay Thai is so damaging on the body. Oh, it's hell. But because of that, he developed this very loose, relaxed style, very aggressive, but also just very comfortable inside of the octagon. He doesn't get that kind of fight or flight response anymore. He just turns up and he's just accustomed to it. Yeah. He lives in that space. Because everyone's waiting, I guess not everyone, it's like everybody that, I don't know how to phrase it, it's like everybody that doesn't drink and smoke before a fight is waiting for it to catch up with him so they can justify why they don't drink and smoke. Right? Because I guarantee if I started drinking and smoking before a fight, I'm gone.

8:15Within seconds. I'm gassing on the walkout. And then I'll wake up in the ER. Yeah, that guy parties. I mean, he's smoking cigarettes the day of the fight. The locker room. Yeah. People are like, you can't smoke back here. That's crazy. Like, the UFC staff must be bewildered. Like, just to see him. And he's like, I think he said in one of his interviews, I trained really hard for this fight. I haven't drank for two weeks or something like that. I was like, yeah, good effort, man. Commitment. I wonder how much of an edge that takes off of you physically versus what it gives you psychologically to just be able to chill out every night. Yeah, and I guess that's what we were discussing last night.

8:59What's the balance, the tipping point for that. It's like whilst he's happy and he's loose and limber and, you know, he feels invincible. Like there are detrimental effects to all this stuff he's doing. I don't, but then fighting is a funny sport, isn't it though? Because it's like, it's not like sprinting where you build up this machine to run at your maximum. There is so many variables working against you. sprinting where you build up this machine to run at your maximum. There is so many variables working against you. And, like, how many times have we seen just nobodies, out-of-shape dudes just come in but know how to throw a punch and just win by starching people? Yeah. It's like, yeah, it's just a funny sport.

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12:20That means you don't have to figure out when the games are on and how your team is doing, which is especially nice when you're following a bunch of teams and your friends are constantly blowing up the group chat. The Apple Sports app gives you all the important game details for your favorite sports teams, fast and simple. Download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone. It's a crazy sport. And sometimes if you're not worried, even though you should be worried, that's a good thing. Yeah. Like there's guys that it's like ignorance is bliss. They come in just fucking wild haymakers that shouldn't land and they do land. And all of a sudden the guy's out and they got their arms up in the air and everybody's like, what the fuck just happened?

13:05That's crazy. It happens too often. Yeah. Too often. Especially with the little gloves. Yeah, and then I'm sweating and grinding away trying to get better and you get these guys that can just turn up and just touch of death people. Yeah, well, there's that too. That's interesting because you're a power puncher You're a power kicker, but there's like there's people that have a weird power, right? It's like it doesn't even like Pereira the Ghana power. Yeah in Ghana or you know there's a Damien Pinas, you know that do you Yes, that's that's a book. Yeah Crazy power crazy power. Yeah that Yuri fight. guy, that's... Uberg. Yeah, Uberg's got crazy power. He can just switch people off. Crazy power, yeah.

13:46That Yuri fight? That last Yuri fight? Blown out leg. Oh, my goodness. And Yuri, like... Oh, my goodness. Yuri needs a psychologist. He needs someone to talk to him and say, we have to have strategies. Okay, you're a seek-and-kill fighter. When a guy's hurt, you can't be upset that he's hurt and then try to give him some concessions. It was like he was part of an anime. He was in his own show. And there was rain in the background in his head. There was rain in the background and there's mud and there's sweat. Thunder. He wasn't there. And then he hit him with that touch of death that he's got on that left hook, man. That left hook is a whip. Yes. Such a whip, man. And what's really crazy is that is the only punch that's available if your other leg is blown out.

14:36Yeah. It's the only punch. Yeah. Because you can pivot off that leg. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of crazy if you really think about it. He's got one option. Yeah. Yeah, he's got one option, and he just. So he's still moving around pretty decent, even with a fucked up leg. But then you see it, like, as he gets leg kicked, he stumbles back. He just can't move. When he wants to move and he can control it, he's fine. But it's like chaotic defensive movements, back and forth where you're shifting oddly on your legs. That's where a blown-out ACL really fucks you. Was it his right leg or his left leg that was fucked up in that fight? I want to say his left. I think it's his right because that would make sense

15:19why he could throw the left hook. Yes, yes, yes. Because he could still pivot off that leg. Yes. Oh, yeah, it's his he could still pivot off that leg. Right here. Yes. Oh, you see? Yeah, it's his right leg. You see it pinning. But then, like, even when Yuri backs into the fence, like, Carlos has one punch there. Yeah, that's it. Just the left hook. One punch. Like, right here, you can see, like, Yuri's. And Yuri's still in that space. Oh, there it is. Well, Yuri in that, like, maybe I'm thinking about it differently because in that moment, so that's post the injury when Yuri realized he had the injury. But in that moment, it did look like Yuri was moving in for the kill. But you just, you can't throw caution to the wind with a guy like Carlos

16:01because Carlos Holberg could just start you. Yeah, that's where he blew his leg out. You see it go wobble. Yeah, you see it like vibration through it. That's horrible. That's especially, I think, it's super vital as a light heavyweight as well. Like the power of light heavyweights, and that was my headspace moving in from middleweight it's like everyone's got touch of death right that's why the fights like a lot of light heavyweight fights are out because they're still fast still fast enough to land but they're just heavier guys right bigger punches and you just can't play games like that there's only a few guys that are like smaller like Mirza Konov is a good example of a guy who's been real successful as a light heavyweight, as a smaller guy.

16:48Azamat. Yeah. Azamat. Yes, yes, yes. The guy that lost to Costa. Yes. He's fighting actually this weekend. He is. Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes. Against Reyes. Small guy. Is he really 5'10"? Yeah. He's small for a light heavyweight. Yeah. And doesn't look ripped. Like he carries a lot, but so skillful. Yes. Yes. He's so slick man He's aggressive with you. Yeah When when you see Paul Acosta fight him at light heavyweight you like Jesus how come Paul Acosta wasn't a light heavyweight the whole time Yeah, yeah That's a guy where it just completely made sense where he went up to light heavy I'm like you look like a light heavyweight especially with his like the few times he lost he missed weight Right, they're struggling for weight cuts.

17:26I feel like for a long period there, he was kind of finding his feet. And then he found his feet just in time to fight me. And he came out with super cardio and super quick. Yeah, that was a great fight. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. I got spinning heel kicked. That was great. But you were one of the few dudes that I've ever seen get spinning heel kicked and survive it. You know? Like, that's a crazy kick to get cracked with. Oh, yeah. I'll take it. I'll take that. Yeah, that's a funny kick, too. Because, like, it's so hard to prepare for. Because it's not a kick you can, for one, it's not a kick you throw very often. Right. And it's not one you can really train in the workroom. Right. Because you can't train it full clip because you can't pull it.

18:13Yeah, and you can't pad it up or anything like that with your boots, right? Right. But, yeah, it's – and even I remember, I remember being in there and seeing him start to do that turn. And there's that one split second, because I've never seen it before, where I'm like, what's going on? And then my legs are gone. I'm doing funny, funny things. There's a moment where Michael Venom Page was talking about this crazy training partner that he has, this guy who was like elite in the gym but never quite could put it together in the cage and he's in he's sparring with him and there's this weird moment where he's like what is he doing and he realized he's doing a front flip to an axe kick and as he's realizing

19:00it he just instinctively does that and blocks it but it just completely on instinct like how why would you be expecting a guy to do a front flip to an axe kick. It's like a rolling thunder. Dude but it's it's crazy though that's like a wheel kick but it's similar but with this guy does it he does it to a heavy bag do you remember that guy's name Jamie? There's a video of him doing it well that's that's similar that's Miguel Torres early in his UFC that's who that is right I guarantee you if someone does this kick to me I'm taking it straight between the eyes but this guy didn't do it with a roll he did it that's it Michael Venepage was talking about that guy that this guy the way he could do it

19:46he could do it on the bag and like hit the bag with a front flip axe kick and I mean who the fuck can do that man I'm blowing out both hamstrings trying to do this is this not available Facebook's video thing sucks. Yeah, it does. I don't... Yeah. There's a video that he... There it is. There's the guy. He lands on his feet. Yes, dude. Watch that. It's like a Street Fighter move. It doesn't seem like it's a real move. Yeah. It doesn't seem like anybody could do it. And it's fast. Fast as fuck, dude. Fast as fuck, and the dude lands it. Look at that. It lands it as an axe kick. And he practices it on the back. I'm taking that straight between your eyes. There is no way. Luckily for me, I don't think anyone in the light heavyweight division is going to be doing that stuff.

20:40There's the dude's name. Galore Bofando. Watch this guy. He's so fucking athletic, man. This is literally crazy. Wow. He actually, he, oh, God, these fucking pop-ups. Fuck off with your pop-ups. I mean, there's levels, right? Like, I've always said that if you can get someone who's a gymnast and teach them, there he is right there. You can see it again. Watch how he does this, man. This is fucking crazy. Yeah. That is so crazy. What's crazy is like he lands and still lands on his feet. Oh, yeah, like a cat. Yeah. Lands perfectly and then slides back into a perfect stance. Yeah. It's nuts. My knees are hurting watching him. I know. Dude, I hurt my back in the shower today Worked out I worked out I hit the bag a punch the bag kicked the bag had his great work

21:32I didn't got a sauna for 20 minutes stretched out feeling great got in the shower taking a shower before the podcast Ah! It happened. Doing something like in between my shoulder blades, doing nothing, just fucking washing myself. Age creeps. I'm still a professional athlete. I'm still, I'm still, I'm gunning for that title. I'm gunning for the title. So I picked up, I picked up one of my kids and I felt like a twinge in my lap. And I'm like, ooh, ooh. You I picked up one of my kids, and I felt like a twinge in my lap, and I'm like, ooh. You just age creeps up on you. Think DraftKings isn't available in your state? Think again. The cage is set, and DraftKings keeps the full card at your fingertips

22:16in one sports app live in all 50 states. Once the cage door closes, everybody has a pick. DraftKings keeps you close to the pay-per-view card from the first walkout to the final horn. Make your calls as the card unfolds. Download the DraftKings Sports app and use the code ROGAN. New customers can spend five and get 200 in bonuses within 21 days. That's code ROGAN. Spend five, get 200 in bonuses. In partnership with DraftKings. I think there's these little micro injuries that you're not totally aware of, and then you do something and they just give, which makes sense because I was throwing a lot of left hooks today and a lot of left switch kicks. So I think I was just a lot on that side. It was a lot of that side.

23:40And so just washing, I went, eh! It was just like this draw. It's just washing, I went, it's just like, it was this draw, this draw. It's just so embarrassing to have a great hard workout, feel real good about yourself. Feel as strong as hell. Got it in today. Strong as hell. Or myself washing. Or myself washing myself. It's usually the way though. Like I, I pick up so many silly injuries just trying to either play with the kids for one, because I think once you're over 35, you can't go into a dead sprint from a stopped position without a 30-minute warm-up. Right. I need to warm up my hamstrings and everything before I'm doing this because if your kids challenge you to a race, especially if you've got boys, you've got to beat them.

24:25Right. You can't let your boys beat you to a race, especially if you've got boys, you've got to beat them. You can't let your boys beat you to a race. You have to. Last time I blew out my hamstring was racing with my 15-year-old daughter in Italy. I blew my hamstring out. 15's getting a bit old, too. They're getting faster that way. I know, especially girls. They're getting faster at that point. She's light. Faster than her feet. My boys are all under 11 still, so I can hobble along. I don't need the full warm-up, you know, but it's, yeah, I need a full hamstring warm-up, stretch out before going. I remember reading that Muhammad Ali would, he would warm up for a full hour before his workouts.

24:58He had a whole system that he did. And one time I did this thing with Daniel Toshsh for his tv show where i like trained him to take a punch from manny pacquiao man he was being nice he didn't really hit him he kind of like just gave him a little thump but anyway we're in the boxing gym and i got to see manny work out yeah and he spends a crazy amount of time warming up yeah there's all these like band workouts that he does everything is like very. They're stretching him and moving him. He doesn't just get out there and he starts real slow. Gets everything warmed up. I think I've seen it. You can get mesmerized watching his warm-up. And then I think also his ab program. If you see his ab program, it never stops.

25:42I'm like a 10 crunches and I'm alright. Because if I'm 10 crunches and I'm all right. Because if I'm getting body shot and I'm not wearing it, it doesn't matter how strong your abs are. You're going down. Bro, he's a very unusual guy. He's an outlier as well. Yeah. In a lot of ways. You know, he's a really good pool player. Is he? Oh, yeah. Like a professional level pool player. Quirky, like super talents. Yeah. Well, you know, pool is gigantic in the philippines yeah and you know i mean it is way bigger than it is in america it's everywhere and he has his own pool hall in his compound so he has a compound in his home i mean a full pool hall with like 15 tables and all these people running around and everyone's playing and they're gambling all over the place. Everyone's gambling

26:25They're all gambling and while he's playing this is so crazy So he's playing pool and while he's playing while his opponent's shooting. He's signing autographs He has people just bring him shit to sign so they could sell it. It's like boxing gloves pool pool cues posters He's signing things as your shot Manny. Oh, he goes over in place and then he's playing a game of chess So he's got a game of chess. So he's got a game of chess going on. He's sitting down playing chess. He makes his move. His opponent makes his move. Runs over. Runs a few balls. Runs over in between that, signing things down. This is exactly his room. So, look, he's got his chess board that's right by the pool table. Then he's making shots.

27:04And then he goes and sits down. And then in the middle table. Then he's making shots. And then he goes and sits down. And then in the middle of that, he's signing things. It's fucking insane to watch, man. I'm getting anxiety watching. He's just constantly moving. And the pool room is just filled with people. They're all moving around. But he plays real good. Yeah. Like, real good. You know, if he's turning up with a glove, don't bet on that table. But it's like he knows how to play. It's not just, like, pocketing balls. Like, he gets excellent position. But like I said, pool in the Philippines is gigantic. It's like it's a huge sport. And he's, you know, deeply involved in it. Like, he has his own pool hall that's in the Philippines, like a huge place.

27:44And, you know, they do a big pool tournament with him every year. Where does he get the time? And then he still works out full time. Yeah. He still works out. Like he's still trying to fight. I think he boxed this year, didn't he? He did, yeah. And he's trying to fight someone like world class right now. He's trying to get like a real like world class fight instead of like fighting. You know, you think when a guy gets into his late 40s, probably have some... Like Mayweather's doing. He fights influencers, MMA fighters, shit like that. Not Manny. Manny's looking to get another world title fight. How? Why not? I guess. I guess he just never lost whatever it is. If you're playing pool and chess at the same time,

28:28that is not a stretch. And it's super accommodating. Like, signing all these autographs for people. Like, everybody's running over to him with boxes of shit for him to sign so they can go sell it. I'm surprised at how many fighters in general like chess. I know it's a tactical strategy, but it's just, it surprises me, like the guys like, I'll go to the gym and I'll train with some of the boys and they are just, they are ogres with gloves on. You know what I mean? But then in their downtime, they're just playing online chess and they're ranked like high. And I'm like, dude, they're just playing online chess, and they're ranked, like, high. Really? And I'm like, dude, you're a knucklehead. What are you doing?

29:10I saw you open a can of Spam for lunch. What are you doing? And it just surprises me. You can't always, like, judge a book by its cover, right? Absolutely. And so I've thought about getting into it. Do you play chess? No, I don't. Okay, yeah. I thought about getting into you play chess no i don't okay yeah i thought about getting into it and then i went on like a deep rabbit hole of like the game of chess and the art of strategy and all that and then i realized like there's just too much to learn right it's like the first 20 moves or something like that are already like in motion like everyone knows at a decent decent clip everyone knows the first 20 moves because that's what you're supposed to do right and then everyone starts going off on different things.

29:46And I'm just like, oh, it's too much for me. It's a long road. And if you get addicted to it, that's going to suck up all your time. Because you can just hop online and play people at any time of the day. You can play the computer. You can play real people. It's just too nuts. Yeah, yeah. But I get it. I really do get it. I understand it. the computer you could play real people so it's just too nuts yeah yeah but it's this but I get it I really do get it I understand it and you could like really underestimate someone's intelligence just based on what they look like they just look like a giant brute like you ever talk to Josh Barnett no I haven't former heavyweight champion one of the smartest people I've ever met super

30:23smart yeah quotes Dostoevsky like he's like off the top of his head he's he's he's quoting these uh great works of literature and studies warriors and yeah studies history knows a lot about whiskey makes his own whiskey like brilliant guy yeah and you know you look at him he's, this is a fucking brute who's really into pro wrestling. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, the athletic side of that sport is just unbelievable. These guys are elite athletes. Right. Because you have to be, otherwise you'd kill yourself. And those guys are taking a pounding that people don't recognize because they're on the road, you know, hundreds of days a year doing these shows in these local stadiums. So these people come out to see them and they're doing these big pro wrestling shows,

31:10but no one thinks about the fact, like, that's real damage. You're getting body slammed. You're getting a concussion probably. You're definitely getting some CTE. A hundred fucking percent. Yeah. And then they hop on the bus and they go to the next state and do it again. Right over. And do it again. Right over the fucking bridge. And back at it. It's crazy. It's so hard on the body. All the old school pro wrestlers that I've brought in here to talk to, they're all fucked up. Yeah. Everyone's just. Just walking with limps and stuff. Yeah. Well, before he died, Hulk Hogan. I met him once years ago. Like, I didn't meet him, but I said hi to him outside of a cigar bar in Beverly Hills. It was fucking gigantic.

31:50It was huge. I met him again when he did my podcast. Well, I met him another time when I interviewed him for Spike TV. He was only slightly smaller then. And then I met him again when he did my podcast. He was significantly smaller because he keeps getting these fusions on his back, right? So he's had like I should picture you like every time you meet him he's just like what's cuz you think about at his face that's why old men shrink you know the one of the reasons why you shrink is you're losing disc space that's why I've got some years yeah you get disc compression. It's called disc degeneration disease. But what it really is is just pressure. It's just all that weight, especially for weightlifters.

32:35They all have disc compression. So his thing was he would jump up in the air and drop down on his ass. He would land on his ass and elbow you. So all that weight, 300-plus pounds, boom, on his ass. He would land on his ass and elbow you. So all that weight, 300 plus pounds, boom, on his ass every night. Boom. His whole spine just going. Yeah. And so he had to get his whole back. His whole back was one rod. In recent years, have you fallen to your ass at any point? Like unprepared? I lay there for a while. I feel it all the way up to the top of my base of my skull. Yeah, it's not good. I can't imagine what sort of damage. Well, I can imagine. You can see it. Those guys all get fused up. Yeah.

33:16Yeah, they all do. It's just there's no getting around. Kurt Angle was here. His whole neck is just. Yes. Yo Romero. Yo Romero's neck is fused to his skull. Another outlier. Dude, you told me that when you fought him that you said it was like kicking metal. I've never felt that way. I've never thrown a calf kick and come off second best. Like I calf kicked him and that was the last calf kick I did. He didn't check it. Like, it just hurt. It just hurt. He didn't check it. It just hurt. It just hurt. He's built different. He's just built different. His body is just built different. That's why he's, how old is he? 49. 49. He just had a bad knuckle fight with Darren Till. And he should have won.

33:57Props to Darren Till for Ben. Props to Darren Till for taking that fight. Bad knuckling Yoramira. And he got dropped too. Yeah. Big fan of Till. Big fan Romero. And he got dropped, too. Yeah. Just. Yeah. Big fan of Till. I think he's doing great in boxing. I think he's found his niche. I think he's had knee issues, like significant knee issues over the years. Sort of really fucked with them when it comes to grappling. Yeah. And I think, you know, what we got to see in his best in the UFC, like the Cowboy Cerrone fight, is his striking. His striking is very elite. He moves really well. And I think because of the knee issues, boxing is just a way better choice. You don't have to take into account the grappling.

34:36You're not getting kicked in the knees. I just think his knees are pretty fucked up. I think that's why you see a lot of the older guys that weren't really taking advantage of wrestling-wise earlier in their career. But as they get older, they start getting taken down, held down, beaten by decision or put on their back and kind of submitted there or kept there. And I think that's because I know this firsthand. I can still do it because I've just been lucky, really. But and genetically like that, that's a thing people don't realize like hard work hard work will get you very very far but there is like talent and genetics are a factor 100% factor John Jones is the ultimate merging of talent and genetics

35:20like yeah exactly like you can't if you were going to build someone in a lab yeah he'd come out intelligence and genes yeah like all those together he's he's the perfect fighter yeah like the perfect fighter but uh but yeah i think as like as you get older you your knees your joints start hurting injuries are more prevalent you can't wrestle on the mats anymore as much as you don't have that mat time Right So that when you get in there With these younger guys And they take you down Or they start pushing on the wrestling You're just not there for it Right You know what I mean And I also think That a big part of wrestling Is what you do in the first second Of the engagement Of the takedown It's like how that fighting

36:04That fight That's why you see a lot of young fighters That don't have a huge pedigree in wrestling of the engagement, of the takedown. It's like how that fighting, that fight. That's why you see a lot of young fighters that don't have a huge pedigree in wrestling, but they get out of positions, they keep fighting, they work their way back up because they're fighting and fighting and fighting, which is another thing that kind of dims a little bit as you get older. Yes. You know what I mean? I think there's also the protecting of your joints, right? Whereas you're young, you just explode into things. When you're older, if you've had a few meniscus surgeries or an ACL reconstruction, you don't

36:32explode into things haphazardly anymore. You think about it. You can't. Yeah, you think about it. You position yourself before you push off. Even just instinctively, you don't trust your knee. Subconsciously. Whereas you're young, you're just fucking moving. You're invincible. You're thinking about your knees. You're scrambling. You're trying trust your knee. Subconsciously. Whereas you're young, you're just fucking moving. You're invisible. You're not even thinking about your knees. You're scrambling. You're trying to get up. You're not thinking of ever protecting yourself. Whereas you get a few surgeries, you get a few blown out joints, you start protecting yourself. And then there's these certain moments where you're like, look, I can explode, but I might not get the best out of it.

36:59Let me take a break here. Let me go to my back and try to work myself back in a position to stand up again. Yeah. And that's where the problems come. That's how you get held down for the rest of the round and lose that round or whatever. Well, Drikus. Drikus and Hamzat. Yeah. Nice. That was one of the crazy examples of the gap in wrestling was gigantic. And Hamzat was the absolute worst case scenario opponent for him. People don't give it that fight and what Shamayev did to Drikus enough thought or space. Because that was unbelievable in a championship level fight to hold down someone like Drikazoo, who couldn't do anything. Anything. He couldn't do anything. And he's a big, strong guy. At the worst case, you just flop around and push someone.

37:50Right. But he just kept getting put in that crucifix and held down, like taken advantage of. It was wild. When was the last time you saw someone in a championship fight defending their world title get put in the crucifix three fucking times? Never. Never. It's such a hard move to get a guy in in the first place, to crucifix three fucking times. Never. Never. It's such a hard move to get a guy in in the first place, to get a guy in three times. And a guy who's a fucking bulldog like Trickus, that guy's huge. And it's not even, it wasn't like it was just in the first round. I just kept doing it. Throughout the whole fight, the things are getting sweaty, people are getting tired, and he still just kept getting put in.

38:23I can barely hold people in a crucifix and a gi. Right, right. And to do it at that, like, there, then, that's... This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right. JoeRogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website, like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links. Head to Squarespace.com slash Rogan for a free trial. And when you are ready to to launch use the offer code rogan to save 10 off your first purchase of a website or domain this episode is brought to you by the mosquito

39:12bowl here's a story that's pretty incredible after pearl harbor four of the best college football players in america walk away from promising nfl careers to enlist in the Marines and fight in World War II. And the craziest part? It's a true story. These guys had their whole lives ahead of them, but traded the glory of the gridiron for the brutal reality of combat where the stakes were life and death. Directed by Pete Berg, the guy behind Friday Night Lights, and starring Nicholas Galetzin, Bill Skarsgård, Ray Nicholson, and Tom Francis. The Mosquito Bowl. In theaters October 30th. I know. It's like, people want everything to be chaos and blood. Yes. Like, you know that dude who just got cut, Fareed Basharat?

39:59Yes. Undefeated. Yeah, yes. Undefeated. Got cut. And last time I talked to him was inside the Octagon. It was the last fight of his career. He's like, I'm sure you're going to get another contract. I think I said that to him in the Octagon because he was saying it's his last fight. He was undefeated. Didn't age well. I don't like that. I don't like that thinking that you have to be uber exciting. He's got a brother as well, right? I believe, and I'm not sure. Is that Farid Basharat? I think he's got a brother as well. The guy's very skillful, obviously. He's undefeated. And they just decided that they didn't like his style. Yeah. Oh, he's a PFL fighter. Okay, that's why. They just decided, okay, I'm talking out of school.

40:47I didn't talk to Dana or Sean Shelby or Mick Maynard. I don't know what happened. I don't know. But I didn't like it. I don't like when a guy gets cut that wants to keep fighting in the UFC. He's undefeated just because you think he's boring. Well, put him in with someone who's fucking exciting Yeah, put him in with someone who pushes him and makes it a crazy fight Like if a guy's fighting and winning you keep fighting and keep winning Yeah Like are we saying that Hamzah can't fight in the UFC anymore because of the trickest fight where he won the title Which a lot of people thought was boring. Yeah, I didn't think it was boring, but a lot of people thought was boring Yeah, brother. It wasn't undefeated. I don't think but was boring, but a lot of people thought it was boring. His brother wasn't undefeated, I don't think,

41:26but had the same issue in February. Won in contract. With the UFC? So he had one fight? I think he had a few. He won through Dana White's Contender Series and had a few fights. Man, I don't like that. I don't like guys not getting offered contracts because they don't like their style. Everyone's trying to win. You're trying to win a fight. Fights are fucking complicated. And this idea that you're supposed to just be entertaining and put your brain on the line and ignore your skill set. Ignore your skill set, which is to avoid damage and to fight intelligently. Know when to engage, know when your gas tank is on E and you got to play it off a little bit and move around a little bit, let your body recover.

42:13This is what the game is. It's winning. If you look at your contracts as well, it's like that to show and to win bonus, you get more money winning. Right. Right. Great example. Good point. Very good point. That's the whole thing. If I could toe-stop my way to victory, I would. If I could do what Chamayev does, sometimes I'm jealous of these guys. They can just wrestle. Right. Because they take no damage. And they just take people down and destroy them there. And then the longevity of that is much longer until that curse hits them where they can't get a takedown and then they never get a takedown again. Yeah, I think that curse is probably what we're talking about too, like a buildup of injuries and all these different things over time.

42:59Like Usman. Right. He was a guy that stopped taking downs. He's a good example of injuries as well. Very good example of injuries. However, he did beat Joaquin Buckley. He was a guy that stopped taking downs. He's a good example of injuries as well. Very good example of injuries. However, he did beat Joaquin Buckley. He did. And Joaquin Buckley, fucking dangerous as hell, man, and especially then. And Joaquin was on the rise. Did you see the Mike Malott victory this last week? Holy shit, man. That was cold. Holy shit. That was cold. Malott looks good, dude. Yeah. It's crazy that that dude started his career at featherweight Really? Yeah he was a featherweight I think Akeem Dawoodu Stopped him

43:36He looked bigger than Joaquin He did He's big He looks like a real Until you look at guys like Michael Morales and you're like, okay, what's this size? He's not the means. He's like a special case. He's just like, he is the perfect example of weaponized physique. Yeah. Like he's just, he's young. He's hungry. He's a genetic freak. You can see it. He makes the sacrifices to get to the weight division. He likes to fight. He can bang. He can hungry. He's a genetic freak. You can see it. He makes the sacrifices to get to the weight division. He likes to fight. He can bang. He can wrestle. You know what I mean? He's just there to scrap. It's an ugly fight. And he's the biggest outlier in terms of weight, in terms of size.

44:18Well, another one was Atiba Gautier. He's another one that weighs 230. 231 was what he weighed before he started his weight cut. And he got down to 185. But he fought Roman Koppelhoff, and Koppelhoff stopped him in the first round. Koppelhoff's got good hands. Fucking good, dude. Good hands. He's slick. Jack Slack, who's a great MMA analyst on Instagram and YouTube and all that shit. He did a great breakdown of the positioning and how Roman Kopilov was leading him into it and setting up shots and set up that left hook. There's a few guys who've done some great breakdowns, but it's so skillful, man. Yeah. And that was a good example of a super powerhouse, enormous guy who's gigantic for the weight

45:02class just gets pieced up by a guy who's just slicker. Yeah. And then Kopilov's not like a physically intimidating dude. Right. He kind of looks like a desk jockey. I know. Except for his nose. His nose looks like he had a fight with a bear. Yeah. A desk jockey that visits the bar overnight. Bro, his nose is destroyed. But I mean, that's just, that's skills. It was that fight with Costa that I saw Costa and I was like, Costa's found his feet. Yes. He was just working that body. Yeah. He pieced him up. Such a good fight. When Costa is on, he's a motherfucker. I think he went through a dark time after the Izzy fight. I think the pressure of fighting for the title, I'm just speculating, overwhelmed him. Obviously he had some

45:49injuries too because he had red suction marks all over his calf, which is a real bad thing to go into the octagon with. I mean, put some makeup on that shit. Because as he sees that, he's going to immediately kick that spot. Because he's a smart guy. Yeah, he's going to go, oh, you got a problem with your calf. Like, nobody gets the suction marks on the calf. And he just got pieced up so bad in that fight and stopped. And then Izzy dry humped him, which was hilarious. And after that, I think he was mind fucked for a while. Yeah, it was hilarious. But it was also, oh, dude, it's so dirty. It's like this. It was cold, man. It's all blooded. Yeah, man, like too cold. I can't BM that much. That's crazy.

46:36He's just had a couple good ones. Like the Pereira, when he knocked out Pereira that second time. Oh, yeah, man. And then the Arrow. That's got to be one of the coolest. I think the greatest fight celebration of all time. Yeah. Especially when you consider what just happened. That dude had knocked him out two fights in a row. Yeah. Two fights in a row, and then he finally got in a fight where he was getting fucked up. Yeah. His leg was getting fucked up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was not winning. His calf was getting destroyed. He's like, this motherfucker already got me. He's like, I was thinking to myself, damn, this motherfucker already got my leg. He did that thing where he was wearing that leash

47:10for the whole camp. Remember, for all the interviews? He had that leash on him. Did he really? Yeah, dude. And then he took it off just before he fought. Oh, he's off the leash? He's such a weeb sometimes. I love the guy now. We're good friends, but he's a weeb sometimes. What love the guy now. We're good friends, but he's a weeb sometimes. What was it like losing to him by knockout and then coming back and taking him to the limit? Because we were talking about this last night. Your second fight, was it a split decision? I'm not sure. I'm not too sure. It was a very close fight. It was very close. It was a very close fight. I feel like if they scored takedowns like they used to back in the day,

47:49I might have got my hand raised. Yeah, takedowns don't mean as much anymore unless you do something with them. You can win off your back if the guy on top doesn't do anything. That's how Boss Rootin won the world title when he beat Kevin Randleman. Kevin Randleman took him down, but Boss was fucking him up from his back, just elbowing him, blasting him from his back, just elbowing him, blasting him from his back. It was very controversial because everybody's like, no, the guy on top, he's winning. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Boss Root was doing mad damage from the bottom. Yeah. And you also see some guys can generate, like, what about when Holland knocked out Jacare off the back? Oh, yeah. Yeah. That was wild.

48:25Reached up and hit him with the fucking right hook. Like, how? How do you generate enough power? I know. Every time I'm on my back and I'm trying to fight up, I get fed. I think. I get fed and then I gas. Then that's where I'm staying for the next four minutes or whatever. I've seen someone else knock someone out from their back, too, with a hook. God, I forget who it was. But he was on top of someone or someone was on top of him. I don't remember if it was his guard or if he was mounted. And he throws a right hook and the guy just, like, sinks and falls on top of him. Like, it is possible. Yeah. Weird things are possible. That's why everyone loves this sport is because crazy stuff happens.

49:10Oh, yeah. Like, it is just a melting pot of athletes. Like when Sean Shroff just knocked out Gable Steveson. Like, in the first round with the first punch, like a 2,400 to one underdog. Yeah, that's crazy. Minus 2,400 underdog. That's crazy. Crazy. And you know there were punters that put 10 bucks on, like, just threw 10 bucks on. 100%. And they're just laughing. Absolutely. He made a lot of people's days, but... Minus 2,400 is crazy, and then he loses in 11 seconds. I was thinking, after I saw him fight the fight before, like, he was a bit reckless with his ability to go in. Like, and especially in such like the big boys division. Yeah. Like everyone's got touch of death there. Well, he's also a guy who I know he is a heavyweight.

49:58I know he weighs like 240 or whatever he weighs. But you look at him and you're like, that guy can make 205. Like 100%. 205 is not outside of his wheelhouse. You don't think? Because his legs. Like, 100%. 205's not outside of his wheelhouse. You don't think? Because he's late. Yeah, this is Kevin Allen. This was also a hook. It's the only one I can find. He's talking to him while it's happening. Always. He's always talking to people. He's the most thing. I had this dream when I was 17, and then throws a hook and knocks him out. Is that what he said? I had a dream when I was 17? I don't know if you can hear it. Is it on right now? Yeah, you can hear it. Yeah, let me hear it. Put the headphones on

50:27He said that was nice He's telling him it's nice I had a dream about this Ooh, right there. Jacare, he was already badly hurt there. That finish was crazy. It was the first punch had him fucked up. Yeah, and he didn't recover because he was there for a minute. So he must have hurt him bad. But then the rest of it was terrible to watch. Well, he said to Joaquin Buckley, he goes, you got a booger on your nose. And then he knocked him out. He's like, hey, man, you got a booger on your nose. And then he hits him with a straight right and knocks him out. Yeah, I don't know what I'd do if someone was talking that much to me in a fight. Well, Frank Shamrock had a fight with Nick Diaz in Strikeforce.

51:28And he said, after the fight, he goes, it's so fucked up because this guy is talking shit to you. And you're like, I can't believe he's doing this. I can't believe he's talking shit to me. He's Frank Shamrock. He's a legend. He was a former UFC champion. Like a real pioneer in terms of a complete martial artist. He was one of the very first. Started with boots on. Yeah. He was one of the very first. Started with boots on. Yeah. I mean, he did the Pancray style when you're open slaps. I mean, he was a real pioneer. So for him, and Nick Dio's like, what, bitch? What you going to do, bitch? He's just popping him and talking to him. You don't get to breathe because he's not hitting you full blast.

52:05He's like, here, put some volume. I love how he used to put his hands down by his hips. He's just talking to him constantly. I've always been the biggest fan of his style. Oh, Nick has a crazy style. It just looks so much fun. It looks fun. He's relaxed. Like, even while he's doing this, he's never straining. Yeah. Like, all of his punches are like 50%. Everything's 50%. But because of that, he can throw them for days. Forever. For days. And then he gets to that point where he's not even breathing, and he's just beating on a gassed guy. Yes. You know what my favorite fight of him ever is? Paul Semtex daily. Oh, yeah? Yeah, in Strikeforce. Semtex had maybe the craziest power in the history of the division.

52:56Semtex would just put people into orbit. He had crazy knockouts. And these dudes just went to war. And he dropped Nick a couple of times. But Nick brought him into a pace where he was going to have to sprint for the entire five minutes. And by the end of like three minutes in you see he's like, I can't do this anymore. And then Nick just overwhelms him and stops him. Lactic overload. Yeah, see if you can find that. He had some wars and struggles. Bring us up earlier in the fight. They were wrestling a little bit. Yeah, but in the beginning it's like you see the power of Semtex, like crazy left hook. Left hook and a left uppercut would just put people into orbit. Just terrifying power. He is one of those guys with power.

53:39That's what we were saying, but you're born with it. I swear you're born with it. 100%. It's not like he's doing a gym workout, like explosiveness routine to get power like that. You can certainly enhance your power, but I think the type of power that like Paul Daly has or, you know, like a Thomas Hitman's Hearn type power or Deontay Wilder, he's the best example. You're just born with that. You got a gift from God. God gave you a gift to put people into orbit. And this fight just is just this crazy example of his cardio. You know, Nick Diaz has swam back from Alcatraz I think seven times. It might be more now. I remember seeing that. He's really big. Even during camp, he's really big in a triathlon.

54:22That's how he stays fit. You can't get this or sustain this level of cardio unless cardio is your lifestyle. Yes. Like, this is, at this point, cardio is your hobby. Yeah, it's a different thing, right? Just like Murab. So he's not trying to blitz people ever. He's not trying to hit you with one big bomb and trying to, he's just cooking you. Yeah. And he's bringing you up to a pace that he knows that you can't sustain, but he does every day. Do you reckon that's what burnt him out? Because I swear, it's got to be like, if every fight you turn up and you're like, all right, four rounds to go before I got you. Like, you know you've got 20 minutes of cooking a guy, you know what I mean? Well, it could be that, but it's also, you've got to take into consideration

55:04all the years that he's been fighting yeah so i've called nick's first fight in the ufc in 1990 no 2001 i think 2001 i'm pretty sure it was 2001 i'm pretty sure that was the first time i worked for the ufc in the new era and it was 97 i worked for the old era before Zufa. Yeah. And then it was him versus Robbie Lawler. And he was like 20 years old. Yeah. That was so good. He had some wars. He just got dropped there so bad. It was 2003. Okay. That's 23 years ago. Yeah. That's crazy. That is a long time to be getting punched in the head yeah and i think that is a giant fact especially with his style his style was very much in your face he's going to eat a couple but he's going to give you four for every every one you land yeah and he did a

55:59lot of sparring with what's that i take that back that was just the ufc he did uh his first fight was August 31, 2001 for IFC Warriors. And was 2003, what event was that? Jeremy Jackson. No, what was the number? UFC. Does it say it? I would have swore it was. UFC 44. July 19, 2000. Sorry, September 26, 2003. Okay. So that's his, and that's Robbie Lawler? No, Jeremy Jackson. That was his first one? Robbie Lawler was his next one, 2004. Oh, interesting. So Jeremy Jackson was the guy who stopped him earlier in his career. Yeah. Who was a really good boxer. Yeah, this is the end of it. Paul just, he just couldn't take it anymore. And the pace is just fucking insane because it doesn't stop it doesn't slow down

56:50yeah but I think you know at a certain point in time everybody's time is up and if you've been sparring with pro boxers for years and sparring hard for years and training hard and fighting and getting in these crazy wars the type of fights yeah the type of fights that you're in remember when he fought Anderson Silva and he was getting bored, so he just laid down and put his hands on his head like this? Only he could do that. It was awesome. Only he could do that. It was amazing. I mean, it was like, even though he lost the fight, I was like, that was fucking great. It was so entertaining. Yeah, yeah. It's like, because he knew Anderson just wanted to counter-strike and just walk back on the fence.

57:30So he just didn't engage. Right. And then nothing was happening. I know. There was a few guys who figured that out with Anderson. Yeah. That if you don't do anything, he doesn't do anything. Yeah, yeah. Which is crazy. Yeah. And because during his prime, he was running through people. Before people worked it out, before there was like a ton of tape on him, before they found that, and before also Anderson's age and the amount of fights he had caught up with him, he was untouchable. Untouchable. He was unstoppable. Anderson in his prime was in the Matrix. He was doing things to people. You're like, this is – how is he doing it? And it was like he'd pull these spectacular techniques out of nowhere,

58:04like Vitor, that front kick to the face. It was just like, my lord. He was in the Matrix. He just saw things that other people couldn't see. There was a time, and I always say that you have to look at elite fighters in their absolute prime. You can't look at them like BJ Penn later. He's my best example of that. You can't look at the BJ Penn, Frankie Edgar fight and say that's BJ Penn. No, you've got to look at, I mean, later in his career. You've got to look at BJ Penn when he fought Sean Shirk, Joe Daddy Stevenson. BJ Penn when he was in his prime, you've got to look at that. And I feel like that's the same thing with Anderson. Don't look at him past the broken leg. Look at him before that when he was just starching everybody.

58:46Look at him before that when no one could even touch him. And making it look easy. Easy. Like championship fights. Like finishing people easily. Yeah. And having fun. Yeah. Like having the Forrest Griffin fight. Like he was having a good time. Yeah. It's like, that was almost dirty too. That was dirty. That was another dirty moment. Some guys are just cold-blooded. Just stepped back and popped him with the right hand. Yeah, and just kind of mockingly dancing around. Did he get told off once because he was mucking around that much? That was the Damian Maia fight. Yeah. The Damian Maia fight. Well, I think there's another factor in that fight. So that fight was outside in Abu Dhabi, and it was hot.

59:30And there was fucking bugs that were flying around the size of a horse. What was it? I didn't know that because I can't imagine how annoying that would be. It was weird. You guys, you had these weird Middle Eastern bugs that you never saw before flying around. Like, whoa, look at the size of that thing. I was like, this is is crazy and it was outside so uh Anderson comes out hot in the first round like putting it to Maya trying to put Maya away but he doesn't wind up putting him away yeah and so I think he got really fucking tired and I think he just decided to coast and then Maya was like kind of chasing after him he was just getting out of the way and just doing enough to win a decision. Yeah.

1:00:07And Dana White was pissed. Yeah. They got real. Because this is like a big showcase fight. First of all, even though the White House card was awesome, it was a lot of fun. It was a great night. Don't have fights outside. A world championship fight should be fought in a controlled environment. It should be an air-conditioned building. It should be a controlled environment that everyone fights in a world championship fight the same way. It's a control. Yes. Yeah. What were some variables? I wasn't there. You were. What are some variables we didn't see? Well, one of them was humidity. And Gaethje talked about that. So there was thunderstorms all around us. Yes. That had delayed the show. The fight got delayed.

1:00:51Yes. The fights got delayed, and they thought they were going to get delayed way later, till like 10.30 PM, but it wound up passing over us, like literally like miraculously, like literally circled around. They might have done something. Start the engine, get the thing in the sky. He might have done something, but it's a good time to done something. Start the engine. Get the thing in the sky. He might have done something. But it's a good time to do something. Yeah, if you are. If you really can manipulate the weather, that would be a good time. So there was that. And Justin said that in the first round, he felt it. He's like, you could feel the air was heavy. Yeah. That's a factor. It wasn't that hot.

1:01:24Like when they're fighting is in the 70s, I believe but 70s with humidity when you're going out it. Oh, yeah, that's not how it's supposed to be air-conditioned Environment should be the same way for every fight and that Abu Dhabi fight. It was not it was hot I remember sweating in my shirt and we were outside and I was like these boys must be fucking yeah Tired this episode is brought to you by RAF, Real American Freestyle Wrestling, exclusively on Fox Nation. Every month, you get every feud, every match, every belt. If you love UFC, wrestling is where it all began. And now, RAF heads to Sin City for another massive night of action. RAF 14. And this one is all attitude. RAF's bad boys, Armand Saryukian and Dylan Danis, step onto the mat to find out who's the baddest.

1:02:18Plus, a loaded card featuring the world's best wrestlers and some of the biggest names in combat sports. No cages, no gloves, no excuses, just wrestling at its best. RAF 14 live from Las Vegas, Friday, October 23rd, streaming exclusively on Fox Nation. Go to foxnation.com and sign up today. I'm like a heavy sweater. Like a heavy, heavy sweater. Like, so whenever I do like a hard session, like if I have a big sparring day and do some rounds and it's hot because in Australia, we live in it, right? If it's like a hot day and it's humid, by the second round, I'll be dehydrated. That's crazy. I'll be cooked, like cooked. You know, Gaethje doesn't drink water when he trains. Really? Yeah. He won't drink any water until after his training session's over.

1:03:13Why? He thinks it toughens him up. That's just how he's always done it. He is super tough. He's tough as fuck. That's an adorable motherfucker. I don't know if that'll work for me. Stop drinking water? Will it make me tougher? Or will I just die? I don't know if... But it's like what we were talking about earlier, that there's this balance between drinking and smoking and having fun and being a fucking marine. Yes. I don't know, man. Yeah. Fighters are special beasts special, B, say. Like, special animals. It's almost like I wish there was a Marvin Hagler in MMA at the same time there's a Carlos Protest. So let's see which way works best. Yes. You know, you got two guys that are special athletes, but one of them gets up at five

1:04:02o'clock in the morning and screaming war and running up sand dunes with combat boots on in the middle of the winter in Cape Cod. That's Marvin Hagler. And he has Carlos Prata. He's fucking dancing. He's drinking. He's got a Marlboro. And he's just going in there and fucking tuning people up. I don't know. And easily. Easily. That last fight was rough to watch. The Jack de la Maddalena fight? Yes. Yes. As a patriotic Australian, sitting there and watching that fight was rough. Well, as a fan of Jack's, it's hard to watch. He's a great guy, and he's an elite fighter. But my goodness, what Prates did to him. You said it best. It was dirty. It was just dirty. It was cold. He was like an executioner at that point.

1:04:46He's got that step-in knee to the left side, or from his left side into the liver. God, that's so nasty. He does that so well. He's giving you all these different reads. And he gets so much range on it. Yes. He fights almost in your face, but he's not there. Right. He's not there. You go to come to him, and he just leans back, and he's gone. Yeah, and pops you from across the cage. And then calf kicks you on the way out. DC said it best. We were talking about this last night. DC said he's built like a mosquito. Just all legs. Like an elite killer mosquito. All legs. Just all limbs, long limbs. But the power. Yes. The Leon Edwards left hand, Long limbs. But the power. Yes. The Leon Edwards left hand.

1:05:28My goodness. That left him cold. And the way he covered distance with that shot, too. He's so good, man. Yeah, he is. And he's so, so exciting to watch. Just like Hoofy. Yeah. Hoofy. I know he lost to Armin, but did you see the one shot he threw from across the cage? He covered like two meters. Hit him in the eye. His eye blew up straight away. It was so... No, Hufi's dangerous. He's dangerous and long. It's just like Armin had the perfect strategy. Just get him up against the cage, land elbows. And the way he went for the single, and then he's defending his head straight up in the air. Boom. Caught him with one, and he was out cold, and he held him up to hit him with the second one. Armand's a beast.

1:06:16And rich. I hate that. No sense. Grew up really rich. I don't know why. My life sport, my lifeblood on this earth for my family is his hobby. And it annoys me. It's like, it just turns up at the highest level to play. And it kills me. And there's just always this narrative that we were told that, like, rich people can't fight. The rich guy's son is never going to be the toughest guy. It's always the poor guys. Yeah. He fights like he's poor. That's what's crazy. He fights like he grew up in the ghetto. Yeah. Or he, he fights like he grew up a super soldier. Right. You know, maybe he's on the other side of the spectrum. Maybe. Well, maybe. Yeah. Maybe he's on the other side of the spectrum. Well, maybe, yeah.

1:07:07He got really good training very early on. But also, the thing is, it's like in him. He loves it. Yes. There's no way you could have the kind of money that that guy has and fight that way unless you really love it. And get through a camp. Right. Like, there are too many moments during camp I'm like, F this. I need this app to go well i'm like halfway there it's just well it's also it's like he does those sam calavito workouts do you know those do you know what i'm talking about okay so there's this guy who uh tj dillashaw credits with a lot of his strength and conditioning and the reason why he had such a crazy gas tank. And Aaron Pico, he trains with him. Hamzat trains with him. Hamzat started training with him fairly recently.

1:07:56But Sam Kalavita, he comes from a cycling background and, you know, like real scientific approach to cardio. And these guys do these fucking insane cardio strength and conditioning workouts in a garage in California so you got all these elite fighters in this you know middle-class residential neighborhood guy fucking lifts up his garage door And you got these assassins on your fucking driveway Doing like whipping chains and shit and doing all these crazy medicine ball workouts. Yeah. See if you can find some of that. I'm looking for it. They call it the garage. It's just what it's called, the garage. Yeah. And this garage is just filled with strength and cardio equipment. So they're all talking about it here.

1:08:39Yeah. Let me see if you can show some of the workouts. Is he going to show it? These guys are all cardio machines. Yeah. And it's all in his— Okay, they're not— That's not good. But I know from Armin's YouTube channel, he had a bunch of it, where he was training with Hamzat at Calavita's place. Yes. Along with a bunch of— Juan Archuleta was there, a bunch of elite MMA fighters. They're training, and it looks like hell. It looks like just complete holy hell. Cub Swanson had an interesting take on it, though. Because Cub worked out there, too. And he said he feels like he had some of his worst performances when he did his cardio sessions there. And he thinks because he just takes too much out of you.

1:09:24He goes, the guy just breaks you down too much. He goes goes there's like a fine line and i think he he passes that line so they seem just just in the street i think the thing is though if you're just doing a cardio based sport like cycling yeah you know obviously it's power and there's some technique to it but it's not the same sort of give and take, completely open-ended, improvising thing that MMA is. So you can't just have cardio. You also have – you have to have the ability to have all of those movements just razor-sharp honed, all your skills razor- honed. All your skills, razor sharp. And sometimes when you're broken down from strength and conditioning, when you go to do your skills,

1:10:12your skills feel sloppier. They don't feel the same way. You know, like I know, like when I used to work out at Carlson Gracie's place, one of the things that I didn't like, no disrespect, but one of the things that I didn't like is they put you through this grueling strength and conditioning thing before you would do your skills. And I was like, hmm, why would you want to be exhausted when you're learning something? I think it's a good thing if you're just trying to get in shape and have a real hard workout. And yeah, you should know what it feels like to wrestle tired, but also, shouldn't you learn all this stuff when you're fresh? Yeah, Because the idea is not to gas, right? Exactly. And that comes from efficiency. Yes. I think if you're going to do

1:10:53strength and conditioning like that, it should be after your skill work. This is my personal opinion. I think skill work should be done when you're not tired. Definitely. You should learn all those sharp movements, all the counters, all the things. It should be sharp. If you're exhausted and your abs are fucking killing you and your neck is stiff and you're like, it's like you're a little more labored with stuff. You don't have the confidence and you don't have the neural pathways of the sharpness. You know how sometimes you learn a move and then you get it and you finally get it. And then you're hitting pads or something Just a top you just get it. Yeah, it's there. Yeah, and now it's in your head like oh, I know that path

1:11:34I know that path if all of a sudden that path gets sloppy Then you start thinking do I know it? Do I know it the way I think I know it? Yeah, I land this at will if I see see the opening, can I go? Or will I be a fraction of a second slow? Will I be a little off? And you don't want, like if you go into these sessions tired, you don't want to get used to being tired. I know they say you gotta train for when you're tired, but you don't want to get used to being tired. So I feel like that starts you off at a funny level. And another thing is – What did you just pull up there, Jimmy? I just asked for flex if there's any benefits to hard or athletic training, hard cardio before skill work. And it says yes.

1:12:16Let me see that. Let me see what it says. Scroll. Yes, there can be benefits, but it depends on whether you're trying to learn a skill or execute and establish one under fatigue. Yeah, that's true. But the thing is you're always learning. That's the thing about like technique in terms of MMA. It's like so comprehensive. Hard cardio is an automatically better preparation for skill work. Fatigue commonly reduces the quality of a sport specific technique. That's exactly what we're talking about. And your mental focus though, that's not limitless, everyone's done a cardio session where it's so hard you start to, like your own brain starts to try to escape on you. You know, you find it hard to be in the moment where you are.

1:12:56Because you just, you're tired. If you take that into a skill session, you're not going to, I personally, I can't work under like that because. Yeah, I think skill is for fresh people yeah and i think there's there's a real benefit to like flow rolling there's a real benefit to like like shadow sparring where you're just touching and moving and it's just you're just building pathways in your mind but then there's also like a giant benefit to just breaking down the machine and pushing the fucking machine to its red line and forcing it to recover and build a stronger base. And it's a balance though. I don't think like whilst it has a place and I do it as well. I use the assault bikes and treadmills and everything else. I think though, if you want to

1:13:43break yourself doing something, it needs to be in the craft you're doing. Like if you want to get fitter wrestling, you have to wrestle. You have to be put in those positions. If you want to see where your skills take you under fatigue, you have to wrestle to fatigue. You have to grapple to fatigue. Well, that's GSP's approach. Yeah. Later in his career. Later in his career, he essentially abandoned all the strength and conditioning and just did sport-specific training. Just did hard rounds in the bag, hard rounds sparring, hard rounds drilling. That's also what makes your body hard. You need to be used to contact and stuff. There's been heaps of camps where I've torn a calf muscle, so I've done the back end of

1:14:24it just on treadmills and assault. Treadmills, concept twos, that sort of stuff. Not treadmill, sorry. Concept twos, assault bikes, too many. Ski ergs, too many camps have ended this way. And it just takes a mental toll on you having to push yourself to red line in those sessions. This episode is brought to you by the farmer's dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist. And trust me, I know. I buy one, the farmer's dog. I use it for most dog owners. Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know.

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1:16:44And Mar Marinovich, his philosophy was you already know how to fight What we're gonna do is give you the most insane gas tank And then you're gonna go in there free as a bird because you're never gonna think about cardio You just can be able to perform. Yeah, and so it was all plyometrics. Yeah crazy Plyometrics and all these weird box jumps and all this different shit and and every day just getting broken down, broken down every day. But he would show up shredded and just looking like an absolute demon. And he had been doing very little in terms of, like, sparring, very little mitt training. The philosophy was you already know how to fight. Like, take that thought and just throw it into this six,

1:17:28eight-week camp of insane cardio and plyometrics. And I think that's where I've kind of pushed my own training in light heavyweight and in the later end of my career. It's just like being happy, enjoying the process. Because by this stage, I know how to fight or I'm in trouble. Either I've got it by now or I'm not going to get it. So it's like we don't need to work skills as much as review, revise, and just practice. So it's like I do a lot of mitt work. I do a lot of light sparring, movement, shadow sparring sort of work. I do a lot of rounds in the gi and different positional work. In the gi, really? Yeah. What is the benefit, you think, in the gi for MMA training? If you want to learn jiu-jitsu, I'm a big believer in gi.

1:18:23Obviously, it's different, but a lot of gi guys can transition from gi to no-gi. They're very hard the other way around. Yes. You know? And I think Damien Maia was a big believer in gi work. Well, a lot of the Brazilians are. Yeah. It's a religion. Yeah. For good reason. Jiu-Jitsu is all about the gi, my friend. You need the gi. Don't abandon the Gi. Like, people got real mad. I don't know. You weren't around back then. The early days of Gi, no Gi, right? The early days. Like, when did you start training? Well, it would have been 2000, like for MMA? Yeah. It would have been like 2015. Right. So in like 2001, 2002, 2000-ish was when people started doing no-gi. And a lot of the Brazilians did not like it.

1:19:15Yeah, no. There are a lot that still don't like it. A little loyalty to the gi that was crazy. So when Eddie Bravo branched off and started Tenth Planet, which was 2003. It was very controversial. Like, what is this guy? This guy abandoned the gi. It was a real problem, man. That sounds crazy now because there's so many elite Brazilians that are in no gi. Just like they abandoned the idea that leg locks are bad. Yeah. If you did a leg lock back then in a tournament, even though it was legal, everybody would boo. And you'd get beat up afterward probably. Heel hooks, people would be furious at you. You know what's great about the gi in terms of like a jiu-jitsu side of things, especially like for MMA as well, is that you can't make as many mistakes in the gi.

1:20:00Yes, absolutely. It makes your positioning and your decision making so much more vital. Because let's be honest, if you're an athletic guy, you can get pretty far in no-gi. You can explode out of things. You can explode out of a lot of things. I've jumped into beginner classes and a really strong guy will still like shove me from mount or from the half guard because I'm just not ready for him to just bench press me. Right, right, right. It's just like these crazy beginner sort of stuff. Right, but if you're grabbing a hold of his gi, he's not doing any of that. Yeah, well, and you can't make mistakes because if you make a mistake, it gets capitalized on and you get into a bad position. Then you're working from that bad position.

1:20:42Like you're actually punished for errors. I feel like a lot more so. Obviously in no-gay, there's plenty of that as well, especially at the highest level. I think there's definitely something to it. Jean-Jacques Machado's approach was very interesting because Jean-Jacques was born with only a thumb on his left hand. So he has a right hand that's a full hand, but he was born with just a thumb so Jean-Jacques never relied on collar chokes and and grabbing cuffs his technique was overhooks and underhooks so when he went to Abu Dhabi his technique right into no gi immediately translated because he was using wrestling based holds yeah he was a lot of it was overhooks and underhooks same systems yes same system so

1:21:25when I learned from him, I did that. I did his style. And I was like, because I'm still going to do no-gi with Eddie. So I was doing no-gi at 10th Planet and I was doing gi at Jean-Jacques. So I just decided to do it Jean-Jacques style. And Jean-Jacques style was like, the gi is great defensively because you have to have excellent position and you have to have good defense. You have to make sure that you're doing the right thing because you're not going to just yank yourself out of an armbar yeah it's not like when you're sweaty and you can just kind of explode out of things squirm and move real quick you can't do any of that shit you're trapped so defensively i felt like it was very but i also felt like offensively i should just do all the things

1:22:03that i do no gi and ignore the gi and just except a clock choke. I can't pass up on a clock choke. If I get that grip inside and I get that hand on the underarm and I can spin under I love that. That's a ninja move man. I love me a clock choke. But other than that I felt like offensively in terms of controlling people I was going to ignore the gi. I was just going to only use grips that were wrestling-based grips. And so that's how I proposed it. I'm very much the same. And my coach kind of teaches that way as well. All my chokes in the gi even are still just head and arm, rear-in naked chokes, just the real simple ones. Yeah, the basics. Yeah. Well, look at Marcelo Garcia. He's like my favorite example.

1:22:47Like Marcelo, almost all of his victories by submission came from chokes. Almost all of them. He beat Rico Rodriguez in absolute in Abu Dhabi with a heel hook, which was crazy. Yeah. But in all the other fights that he had, every one of those submissions, I think, was a choke. I don't think I've ever seen him get anybody in an arm bar. I'm sure he has, but I've never seen it. Well, chokes can't be defended. Right. In a lot of high-level guys, you'll see let their knees go, let their arms go, especially in fighting, especially in MMA. How many times have you seen an arm bust out or heel hook in the knees? Corey Sanhagen blew his knee apart in his last fight. And it doesn't stop the fight, though.

1:23:34If you're good, you're good. Yeah, until it's over. But choking. Right. You go out. Yeah, you're gone. That's it. It's over. That was Marcelo's approach. No Kimura. He said Kimura was a strongman move. You have to be strong to pull it off. Yes, you do. So his whole thing was just get a hold of the necks. High elbow guillotine, rear naked choke, anything you can do, head and arm choke, whatever he could do is just get a hold of the neck. He had a crazy north-south choke. His north-shouth choke is excellent. He just figured out how to be like a master neck squeezer. Yeah. And just find those right positioning. Some guys are just good at it though. Just like MMA, there are guys that are born gifted and talented for the craft.

1:24:15Like Craig Jones is a freak. Oh, yeah. He's a freak. But he's also a guy who loves jujitsu. Yes. He loves the game and being skillful and setting traps he's a nerd for it he just he loves seeing the different things what works what doesn't work like he has he has his approach to it is so intellectual but he's good enough to be able to implement it and he's always having a good time that's the thing he always looks like he's having a blast yeah That's the thing, right? He always looks like he's having a good time. He's having a blast. Yeah. He's the funniest fucking guy in jujitsu by a long shot. Yeah. Like, there's no one even, he's like a professional comedian. Like, he easily, if he retired from competing, could become a professional comic.

1:24:57I really believe that. Yeah. The dude's hilarious. Yeah. When he had that intergender fight with Gabby Garcia, and he kissed her, and she got mad at him. He's so silly. He's so silly. But that silliness is like a mask that covers up this assassin. Yeah. Like when you start training with him and like you watch him train with like elite guys and he catches them and stuff, you're like, oh, fuck, man. That's slick. So I've rolled with him and it's like you're drowning. It's just you're just wondering how this ends. Like what is he going to finish you with? Now what's crazy is imagine Gordon can do that to him. That's what's crazy. Well, Gordon could do that to everybody. That's what's crazy. I've thought about this.

1:25:44I've thought like how would I go about fighting those dudes? And I'd be like, I'm doing everything in my power to not get grabbed at all. Because it's over. Once you get sucked into it, you can't play safe with these guys. Well, especially with Gordon. He's so good at controlling people. Because he doesn't have an athletic-based style at all. Like he talks about it. He says, I'm not an athletic guy. I don't move fast. So all of my jiu-jitsu an athletic-based style at all. He talks about it. He says, I'm not an athletic guy. I don't move fast. So all of my jiu-jitsu is control-based. And it's also, when he gets a hold of you, that's it. It's over. Yeah. Hicks and Gracie said this to me once.

1:26:16It was like the dopest fucking conversation I ever had with them. I've had a few with him that are pretty cool. But we're over his house, and we're watching some fight tapes. It was me and him and his son, Krohn. And we're sitting there, and we're watching some fight tapes. It was me and him and his son, Krohn. And we're sitting there and we're watching these fight tapes and he's explaining what these guys are doing wrong. He was watching this Mario Sperry fight. That'd be so cool. It was the dopest shit ever. That'd be so cool. And he was talking about how these guys are losing position. And he goes, we all started a neutral position. We all started zero. And he goes, and once a neutral position we all started zero and

1:26:47he goes and once I go to one I'm not going back to zero I'm going to two I'm going to three I'm going to checkmate and it was like so intense yeah what he was saying it was like yeah it was like this is a fact yeah if I get you in a position you're not getting out of it and I'm advancing to the next spot, and I'm advancing to the next spot, and then checkmate. And what he was saying, I was like, oh, shit. It was the dopest conversation. These guys are like samurais of today. Oh, yeah, man. That mentality they have, that is the way of the warrior. Well, Hickson was a true pioneer, too, with physical training. So Hickson was like the first jiu-jitsu guy to adopt extreme flexibility, yoga, cold plunges.

1:27:35He was doing these cold plunges in the glacial rivers in Japan before he fought in Japan Valley Tudor. It's in the video. Before it was cool. It was fucking freezing cold water, and he's in there just fucking, ah, ah. It's in the video. Before it was cool. There's fucking freezing cold water, and he's in there just fucking, ah, ah. It's amazing. He was doing neck exercises with bands where he was going up stair or pulling against a tree with a fucking thing to control his neck muscles and strengthen his neck muscles. He was doing shit that nobody had figured out. SNC years ahead of the game. Way ahead of the game. Yeah. Balance work, balance beam stuff where he's doing a standing split on a balance beam.

1:28:11Yeah. Well, you know, and that sort of stuff is so vital for MMA because you're just, there is no controlled position. Right. Because you're constantly moving with, like, obviously the external variable is the opponent who's trying to do things to you. And you're kind of working with that whilst trying to do your own things. And you're never in a position where your body's controlled. Like it's very imbalanced. So doing a lot of these imbalanced sort of exercises and balance exercises where you're strengthening one muscle or flexing one muscle or turning one on. They're so important. That's why I think you mentioned it when we started to just beforehand, gymnastics as a baseline for anything.

1:28:54Yes. Anything is just the best. Yeah. Gymnasts are so physically strong. To be able to throw yourself in the air and land on your feet and move around like that, like that dude who did the front flip to the axe kick. Yeah. We found out with break dancing. So one of the things that happened with Tent Planet was they started bringing in break dancers. And Eddie Bravo realized like, oh my God, Gio Martinez and Richie Martinez, these two guys were excellent break dancers. They do all this crazy shit like hop on one hand and do like a handstand and do a Lotus with your legs without even touching your feet. Crazy stuff. But that ability to control your body, we realized translates directly to jujitsu. Yeah, it does. So Eddie started like learning break dancing to like

1:29:44help jujitsu. Eddie's super open-minded he'll try anything and he sees someone that's really good he's like what are you doing how do you do that like if someone does something in a class he'll stop the whole class is that did you make that up did you invent that yeah show us how you do it and he'll have everybody go through why do this but i find that they counter that so i'm holding it like this now and everybody's like oh and then they'll study it and break it down. So we saw these guys break dance. He's like, wait, wait, why the fuck are you so strong? Like what's going on here? So can Eddie break dance? I don't know if he really got good at it, but I know he was definitely learning some

1:30:14of the stuff just as a strength and conditioning routine. Yeah. Well, I was super lucky. So early on in my career, like most, MMA was still very new. So the information wasn't out there today. Like today you can get a full information plan of AI and just, and just find out anything you want. But I was super lucky to meet my wife as early as I did. Cause her background is elite gymnastics and elite gymnastics. Like they're animals. Oh yeah. Their whole life is one long camp. Cause they can't stop. Cause they can't put on weight. They can't do it. Like it's just, they're just in it forever until they're not. It is wild. Like every day is performance based. It's like long hours. So her mentality really kind of led me into my craft and me in my early days.

1:31:06Did she teach you gymnastics? She tried. She tried. She tried. And she was the one that made me realize how important a strong core is. A strong core. A core is everything. As a person, just being able to move and walk around, especially with the dynamic movements of MMA and fighting. But she was actually the one that, like, she was my nutritionist. She was, like, my strength and conditioning coach at one point. Wow. Because she had, like, the health science background and sports science background. Oh, how convenient. And I was just a poor kid that could fight. That's awesome, though. What a great combination. Lucky. Super lucky. Yeah. I think a lot of people neglect core work, like real core work, like rotational core work.

1:31:52I know I did for a long time, and I just started doing it a few years ago, like really getting into rotational work, like a lot of heavy cable rotational work and kettlebell rotational work. Man, I was doing it out of necessity because I kept getting injured. I was getting certain lower back injuries that were like a repetitive use injury. And I said, I think there's an imbalance. So a lot of it I was getting from archery. So I was getting this tendonitis on my lower right side. And what it is, is because I'm pulling back with one arm like a hundred times a day and I'm not doing anything on the other side. So all my stability is on this side. I'm like pulling back on that side and I'm locking myself in place.

1:32:34And it started to fuck with me. And so I went to a physical therapist and he started recommending some, and one of them was rotational shit. Yeah. And then as soon as I started doing it, I was like, why wasn't I doing this my whole life? Exactly. This is so stupid. I'm such a moron. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's so vital. It's like, it's like all your other physical capabilities get capped at like 80%. And having that strong core just unlocks that. Yeah. It just makes your whole body stronger. And just like living. Living is better. Pick up your kids without popping a hernia. Yeah, it improves everything. It really does. They say that like if you do those, you know, those hanging foot to bar moves, just a hanging foot to bar?

1:33:15Yeah. That improves your deadlift. That improves your clean and press. That improves the strength of your chin-ups. It improves everything. Just that one move. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's Donaher's number one move. He said the one move that he says is a must, a mandatory for all athletes. You have to be able to do that. What move is this? So you're hanging, chin-up bar, you're hanging, and then you lift your feet up and touch the bar. With no momentum. So you have to stabilize it at the bottom and then pull it all up and stabilize it at the bottom and pull it off. That one movement, because it's so core intensive, that movement right there. Yeah. So that right there. That's why I have so much respect.

1:33:57You see those guys at Barkings? Oh, yeah, those guys are crazy. They're like holding out full extension, walking. Flagpoles. Yeah, man. And just jacked. Jacked. Like, man. And just jacked. Jacked. Like, they must only eat salad. Like, it doesn't look like you could burn a stupid amount of calories just on bars. But you are, right? Because you're building muscle, and the muscle requires more calories. And you're essentially, like, lifting your own body weight all all day those guys do it for hours and hours at a time and I guess like it I guess like having any extra weight would affect this the performance of all this stuff by a great degree what is this guy doing he's just using his fingers but to keep balance he must be some kind of a rock climber.

1:34:49That's freakish. Yeah, some of these... What is this dude doing? Hey, bro. Are you trying to die? Do you understand electricity? This video... Don't do that. Kids at home, don't do that. No, that is terrible. How can you do that and not die? Are those not power lines? Maybe the power's out. It took a chance. Now's my time. Maybe he did it properly and grounded himself and then went up there for the video. Fuck you. Ground yourself. Hold it onto those. Just, you ever heard like what it sounds like for those guys that have to work on those power lines? You can just hear the. You hear the. Yeah. And you just imagine the kind of power that's going through those fucking things. Electricity is scary, isn't it?

1:35:33Terrifying. I was an electrician for a little bit. Were you really? Yeah. That's how I started. I was an electrician. No shit. I was an electrician as I was kind of fighting on the local scenes. Professional still, but on the local scenes. And then I got the call up for Ultimate Fighter and I said, I'm going to take some annual leave when I'm on the Ultimate Fighter. So did you go through an apprenticeship? Yeah, yeah. I was a fourth-year apprentice. So I was supposed to, I was doing my capstone, which is the end test. And I was going to do that, and then the Ultimate Fighter said, all right, come in. Let's go try you out. I went on the show. I applied for annual leave. Never. Never went back.

1:36:07I wonder if they have my job still there. I have a buddy of mine, my friend. to jimmy dutilio back home in boston he worked with this guy who lost his face he just had just some crazy power thing and just scorched his skin all over his whole face just got zapped just got electrocuted yeah something went wrong that's crazy like yeah electricity is just... And because it's not... Like, the damage you get... Like, there are heaps of people that can get electrocuted and be fine. And then there's heaps that just die straight away. Yeah. My buddy Remy got hit by lightning. No. Really? Yeah. Yeah, when he was young. I think he was in high school. Wow. And he lived. But he got fucked up. And he woke up on the ground and realized eventually what happened. Yeah. Wow. He lived, but he got fucked up and he woke up on the ground and realized eventually what happened.

1:36:51Yeah, wow. Yeah. That's good. That's fucking terrifying. Do you reckon that's a good omen or a bad omen? Neither. If you had to look at it. It's not good because you get hit by lightning. It's not good luck. But you lived. Good luck would be the lightning lands five feet away from you and you're like, fuck, let's get off this mountain. Bad luck is you get hit by lightning. But worse luck is you die. I think bad luck would be turning into some charcoal. Yes. I wonder, like, is it just like sometimes you live because, like, sometimes you don't get a full blast. Like one of them blasts that, like, cuts a tree in half. You've seen those? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess that kills you. That seems like that would kill you.

1:37:32I think. I think the lightning has a lot of voltage, not a lot of current. Or it can. As an electrician, you can illuminate us on this. It's the current that kills you. Oh, interesting. What is the difference? What is the difference? What is the difference? This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner, BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. And with World Mental Health Day on the 10th, now's the perfect time to give it a try. In fact, don't even wait until the 10th because all that stress you feel, it's not waiting around. So instead of letting it build up,

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1:39:53Well, you're looking pretty smart five minutes ago. I've been out of the game for a little bit. For a hot minute. I think it's probably you have a heart attack. That's probably what it does to a lot of people. And it burns you, obviously. Obviously. Yeah, I think it probably just short-circuits your entire system Yeah, well that's what a defib is, right? It's like literally trying to short-circuit your heart back Have you ever seen the video? This is one guy I think he's in his driveway He's walking down the driveway He gets hit by lightning Falls to the ground Goes out Wakes up Starts walking again Gets hit again Two kids hit twice Like what are the fucking odds? the ground, goes out, wakes up, starts walking again, gets hit again.

1:40:31Two gets hit twice. Like, what are the fucking odds? I hope it's real. Once you say what are the odds, the odds are very low, Joe. I think it's not real. Well, it's an old video. The only reason why I don't think it's AI, it could be fake. You pissed someone off to get hit by an alien twice. You did something bad. You cheated on your taxes. You did something bad. You cheated on your taxes. You did some fraud. If you're not going straight to confession afterwards. Yeah, you stole something. You did something, man. You kicked a cat when no one was watching. The two strikes and catching it on video are like impossible. But I thought it was a security camera. I thought it was in his driveway. People fake that all the time.

1:41:07No, no, no. Those are all real. No, those are all real, Jamie. Shut the fuck up, Jamie. See, look, he got back up and I was about was a security camera. I thought it was in his driveway. People fake that all the time. No, no, no. Those are all real. No, no, no. No, those are all real, Jamie. No, no, no. Shut the fuck up, Jamie. See, look. He got back up and I was about to get hit again. I don't think that's the guy. No, people fake this all the time. Bro, you can kill that guy with a balloon. That guy is not getting hit by lightning and living. I think he's got scorch marks. Oh, fuck off. Look at the homemade scorch marks. I was going to say he falls down too. Bitch ass fake fall. This one actually is not getting hit twice.

1:41:31This is a more recent one, but. That probably is real. I'm just kidding. When I, uh. I get sucked into these videos all the time. I'm sorry, sir. If you got hit by lightning and I'm mocking you, we're just having fun. It's all love. I'm sorry. We're just joking around, sir. But it's true. It's really funny. I hope he really didn't get hit by lightning. I hope he faked it. Because it's not funny. Getting hit by lightning is not funny. If you live, it's all right. I guess. If he died, it would have been bad. Yeah, this is the guy. Yeah, that's not. Shut up, Jamie. This is real. You don't know shit, Jamie. This is real. So the guy gets up, and he starts walking. Now watch this. He gets hit again.

1:42:09I'm pretty sure this is real, Jamie. He's having the unluckiest day of his life. Bro, that's real. That's as real as the baby Jesus. He's been struck twice. It's real. Jamie. Watch him get struck a third time. Come on, Jamie. Tune in next week. Shut up. Why are you ruining everything? Dude. Oh. I think that one's real. Yeah. That one's real. You're impressive. Oh, my goodness. It's a fucked up way to go. Yeah. It's a fucked up way to go. Yeah. It's just a pair of smoking shoes. That's why tasers are wild. You ever seen like a dude is like messed up It gets tased and just start screaming and pulls the things out of his body. Yeah There's like six six cops and they're just like That Hulk rage moment like yeah, but some people they just

1:43:07Shut off and yeah go straight down to the ground. In my head canon, I'm that, like, I just rip it off, I take it, and I'm probably just like, I'm pretty sure I fall down. I'm sure I fall down stiff as a board. I fall down immediately. You know what? It's not even getting that far. I'm putting my hands up straight away like, what am I doing? Yeah, don't tase me. I'm happy to comply. Fuck. like, what am I doing? Yeah, don't tase me. I'm happy to comply. Fuck. Yeah, it's just like some people, like Dana White on his show, Dana White's looking for a fight. They all got tased once. Yeah, it was him. I was going to ask if you have done it because it seems like a crazy thing. No, I'm not interested.

1:43:43I'm not interested in getting fucking tased. That seems ridiculous. That doesn't seem fun at all. It's just like I don't want to have a heart attack either. What if you get a heart attack? Because it can happen. I think it can. This is a tough situation. This guy is not flying. He's pretty jacked, too. Dude, look at the size. Oh, no, he's ex-army. I think I've seen this. He's like ex-Navy SEALs or something. I'm about to try tasing him, too. And he's got, like, PTSD. Yeah, he's having a problem. And he's barefoot. Yeah. He's earthing. It doesn't work. He better run. And you know what's crazy? Like, he's a big unit, too. Yeah, he's a big fucker. And why did they send four women cops to deal with him?

1:44:20I like how he's still holding his phone, too. Did you see what he just said? What'd he say? Tased me all day. I love pain. Oh. Fun. Some people have just built these things. Yeah, I don't understand that. So is it some people's body? Because I thought it didn't matter. Until I saw a few of these guys online, my original ignorant thought was, once they tase you, you get zapped no matter how tough you are. Your muscles contract and you're gone. Everything just falls down. Yeah. That's it. No, apparently not. No, not if that guy. I saw people like, fuck this. That guy didn't even seem bothered by it. No, didn't flinch. That's it. No. Apparently not. No. I saw people like, fuck this. Yeah. That guy didn't even seem bothered by it.

1:44:51No. Didn't flinch. That's crazy. Let me see that again. Let me see him get tased. You sure that's real? I think the lightning is real and that one's fake, Jamie. I think you're right. How about that? Honestly, this guy gets struck by lightning. It's called pain tolerance, he said. I don't reckon he takes a knee if he gets struck by lightning. But they haven't teased him yet. At that point, they did. Where did they tease him? Let me see. Oh, yeah. Oh, you can see him spaz out and react. You know what is funny? They might not have gone into him, though, is also the thing. Because he pulled out that easy. When the guy's trying to make a leg for it, they try to make a bolt for it, and they get hit mid-stride.

1:45:31Yeah, that's fun. Those are fun. He said, get down on the ground. He goes, negative. That's not good. He's being salty. I'm calling this in. I'm like, I'm going to need backup. Well, he's just depending upon them not shooting him. That's the problem. I don't think he cares either. either well he should definitely care about that because i don't care how tough you are yeah guy unloads his magazine into you you're gonna be dead yes yeah i mean i don't he's depending on them well who knows what the fucking scenario was i don't know maybe he's right who fucking knows sometimes people get pulled over for bullshit reasons, and they're right to get pissed off. I don't know what happened there. But from my own observation,

1:46:15it looks like the man's a tad unhinged. Yeah. And he's too big to be unhinged. Yeah. He's a monster of a man. Yeah. I was getting real Struve vibes. Stefan Struve. Right, right, right. I was getting real Struve vibes from that guy. Stefan Struve. I forgot about him. Yeah. I was getting real Struve vibes. Stefan Struve. Right, right, right. I was getting real Struve vibes from that guy. Stefan Struve. I forgot about him. Yeah. There's a few of those guys that fought in the UFC that are just so fucking tall. Yes. Remember Semmy Schilt? No. Semmy Schilt, elite kickboxer, K-1 champion from Holland. Nasty front kick. Seven feet tall. Yeah. He was so big. He was just ridiculously tall. And he just would step forward and throw these front kicks and fuck you up with them.

1:46:53Yeah. I feel like I would have been such a good tall fighter. You know what I mean? If I just had like an extra foot or just give me an extra inch, I reckon I could have did some really cool things. How hard was it for you to stay at 170? Like what was your 170 cut like? Oh, it was nightmarish. What did you start off at? It's the sort of thing. Obviously, when I started, when I was at 170, I started when I was a teenager. So I started at 18. And then I went, I was 170 until about 23. And it was just getting harder and harder. You know, as you you age you just get bigger and bigger and i've always been like a naturally heavy guy heavy set guy i think it's my moldy jeans and the last weight cut i did was 7.4 kilos on the day so that's, how many pounds is that? 16 pounds? 17 pounds? What is that?

1:47:49Yeah. That's a lot. In one day? Yeah, like morning of. So that was, what year was this? I would have been 24. 24, so what, 2000? So you had like great performances at Welterweight, like really promising performances, but for sure when you went up to 85, that's when you became Robert Whitaker. That's when you really became. For certain. Yeah. It's like you had found the sweet spot. Yeah. And some people, there's that. The gaps are so enormous between weight classes, which I think is a real problem. Yeah. 15 pounds is a lot of weight. Yeah. In boxing, that would be three or four weight classes. Whereas in MMA, it's one. And the 70 to 85 gap is big, but the 85 to 205 gap is bananas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it is. It is. But I was always kind of cutting down from a 205er to 85,

1:48:42and it just got harder and harder. You know what I mean? Especially with, because I've been fortunate and blessed enough to fight for a long career. And I've been able to have a ton of fights. So to, you just kind of get sick of cutting weight constantly. Of course. You get sick of, and the camps themselves are tricky because like, you're trying to fuel yourself for the sessions, but you can't eat too much. Right. And food is a direct link to recovery and performance. Yeah. So that was one of the biggest things I noticed moving up to light heavyweight was that the camps were just so much better. So I can just eat. I can eat carbs. I can just fuel my body. And my body was stronger during the camp.

1:49:27I had more energy during the camps like i didn't really i the weight cuts were kind of the same because i still wanted to have some size and have some weight behind me so i still i still made the weight cut it's not like i just walked in there but your body's more or less filling into its natural state yes rather than staying in this constantly depleted state exactly like especially at, especially at 170. Like, at 170, what did you walk around at? I want to say it would have been, like, 94-ish kilos, 92-ish kilos. What is that, Jamie? Oh, what? About 198, something like that. 198. So close to 200 pounds. So close to 30 pounds of cutting. Yeah. That's a lot. Yeah. That's a lot. Yeah. And then as well as because I've been in the game for so long,

1:50:17and you want to say better than most, like there's life going on around you. I don't know what it was because the last few middleweight camps I had did not enjoy them. The cut, the diet, the training, fatigue. I've got a bunch of kids at home trying to hang out with six kids when I'm this fatigued. Starving. It was just you kind of get sick of it. You get burnt out a little bit from that style thing. And one of the big things that, I don't know why, it seems like a small thing, but one of the big things that made me sad was that I went to my cupboard and nothing fits because I get fitted for suits when I'm trim, when I'm lean, when my shorts are in. So if I'm walking around my normal weight, I don't have clothes.

1:51:02And I know how stupid that sounds, how little that is. But it made me sad. It's like at the end of this career that I've had, like I've been in the UFC for 15 years, end of my career, I'm going to have no clothes. And it made me, I was like, I was upset. I was like, man, it's just, it doesn't really make sense. But it made sense to me. It made me upset. That's why that was another thing where I was like, I gonna i want to go i want to walk around and have clothes i want to i want something to show for this don't you think that mma would be better in general if there was a way to stop weight cutting just avoid it and then you fight at what you actually weigh when you're at your healthiest you'd have to have way more options for weight classes, for sure. And there would

1:51:50have to be some way to monitor to make sure that people aren't dehydrating themselves. Almost like, you know how we were talking about how drug-free sport or USADA could just randomly drug test you. They should be able to randomly weigh you. They show up. Just here, get down in your underwear, get on a scale. Oh, you're fighting at 170, but you weigh 208. That's not right. You should be fighting at 205. But then that takes away a lot of free agency from the athlete. Does it, though? Because you could change your body weight if you so choose. Right? Like you see a lot of these like, you know, like Dave Bautista, the wrestler, who was enormous at one point in time. Now he's slimming down and getting shredded so he can take on more roles,

1:52:34more complex acting roles. That could be done. You could do that as a professional fighter as well. You could do a lot more cardio and get your body down to a healthy level of whatever it is, whatever weight class you're at your best. But then when you jump on that family holiday, that family cruise, and you're at the salad bar the entire time, that doesn't sound super fun. That doesn't sound super fun, but, I mean, I don't think – I don't advocate that. I'm saying be healthy and eat food. But be at a weight that's a real – like if everybody just fought at the weight they are when they're in shape and eating the adequate amount of food to fuel you, like a real full meal, like full meals every session, eating fruit, getting in your carbs, drinking tons of water, never being dehydrated.

1:53:19But this is what you weigh with, you know, 10% body fat, natural, healthy fit. What is that? That should be how everybody fights. Yeah, I guess in a perfect world, I like, I have zero idea on how you would implement something like that. I don't either. Like, no answers. And I've thought about, obviously, there's been a question in the MMA world for the longest time, and in all sports with weight divisions, really. Of course. But it's just, you also then look at human nature, and it's just our tendency to push the envelope. Especially in a sport that has been predicated on that yeah people have been doing that forever they've been cutting massive amounts of weight forever yeah well i guess maybe because the the sport um sprouted here right it's just

1:54:01it's taken a lot of the wrestling mentality exactly and weight cuts and weight divisions and and all that into into the sport itself but I definitely feel like you see more of that, like that dichotomy of that kind of scenario of more natural weight classes, the higher up you go in the weight divisions. So you see more in like heavyweights where guys are, they're more normal weight class. Or especially in heavyweight, They're all just big boys. Yeah. And some look like Overeem and some look like, I don't know, Pat Barry. He's the best. Overeem. The Overeem days is the best argument for keeping steroids in sports. It's like, come on. Don't you want to see that again? Like, what are we doing?

1:54:49We were talking about this last night at the club the pride days yeah the pride heavyweight days was the greatest heavyweight lineup in the history of the fucking sport it doesn't seem like everyone was a heavyweight there were so many heavyweights man well first of all they would encourage you to gain weight yeah like uh one of the guys from eddie's gym Jason Chambers fought over there and when he fought over there They're like you should be 185 and he's like, I'm not 185. They're like you should get on steroids We can make you we can Ensign anyway when he did the podcast he told me very specifically that in the contract it said, in capital letters, we do not test for steroids. It was like in capital letters.

1:55:36We're all good. Rock and roll. And you saw those fights. They were mental. Amazing. Amazing. Mental and the greatest heavyweight division that has ever been assembled. Mirko Krokop in his prime. Fedor in his prime. Noguera in his prime. Vandele. Well, Vandele really shouldn't have been fighting at heavyweight, but he did. He fought Mark Hunt. Remember that fight? Oh, Jesus. When he fought Mark Hunt, I was like, oh, my God. Getting hit by Mark Hunt when you're a 185-pounder, that is crazy. Fedor. Bro, Fedor. Jesus. Oh, my goodness when he got knocked out by Cro Cop when he got head kicked when Vanderlei got head kicked good lord yeah it got folded it was Cro Cop's head kicks were just insane

1:56:18brutal but what a twist of fate the way that he got head kicked by Gonzaga yeah like it was such a it was such a thing because that's his thing he got Cro Cop you can't you can't Cro Cop Cro Cop I know and by a Brazilian Yeah. Yeah. Like, it was such a thing because that's his thing. He got cro-copped. You can't cro-cop cro-cop. I know. And by a Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt. Nobody expected him to win that way. Yeah. It was wild. A lot of people forget about Gonzaga. Gonzaga was a fucking beast, man. He was a beast. That's the answer to weight divisions. Absolute. Right. But some guys can't do it. Oh, definitely not. T.J. Dillashaw can't fight absolute, but he can be one of the elite of all time at bantamweight.

1:56:55Yeah, here's Mark Hunt and Vandale. Bro, Mark Hunt was so big. He was 265, and Vandale was fighting 185 or 205. And it's Mark Hunt. He's not a fun fight ever. Well, first of all, almost impossible to hurt. Because that guy got head kicked by Crow Cop and just went, well, good shot. Got back up. Good one. Got back up. It was fine. Good one. And I think he got head kicked with shoes on. It was back when they were wearing wrestling shoes. And still was fine. Bro, he was a tank. He could eat them. He could eat those shots. And he had touch of death. And one of the greatest walk-offs in the history of sport. He would KO you and just go, oh, you're gone, and just turn around and just walk away. Even if you weren't gone, he'd still just walk away.

1:57:40And the referee would stop him because he'd be on your back going, where's he going? And the referee would be like, that's it. No, you're dead. He called the fight? Yeah, yeah. Some of those walk-offs, you're like, I don't know, that's it. No, you're dead. He called the fight. In some of those walk-offs, you're like, I don't know if that's a real KO. Yeah. Like, maybe that guy could have, if he got on top and kept going and just covering up, he might have lasted to the end of the round. There are plenty of times I see a walk-off KO, and you're exactly that. Like, they can't, you know how sometimes guys come back? Yes. After getting hit a couple more times? Right. So they come back and then you've gassed yourself and then you're in for another four rounds.

1:58:14You know what the best example of that is? Anderson Silva, Michael Bisping. Yes. He hits him with a flying knee. At the bell buzzer. It looks like he's KO'd. It looks like the fight is over. But Herb Dean did not stop the fight. I think it was Herb Dean. And then Anderson hops up on top of the cage and is celebrating. Yeah, he Dean did not stop the fight. I think it was Herb Dean. And then Anderson hops up on top of the cage and is celebrating. Yeah, he's ready to hit the showers. Bisping comes back in the next round and wins it and wins the decision. With one fucking eyeball. Animal. How does that mess you up mentally? Because I know the feeling of winning. Here it is. He lost his mouthpiece, boom, he gets KO'd

1:58:50and Anderson walks off. Like, that's it. And Herb Dean said, no, it's not over. So Anderson takes his mouthpiece out. Oh, he's doing his thing? Yeah, he's doing his thing. He thinks it's over. How does that, how does that affect you? If you're there, because the feeling you get. So look at this. He hops up in the cage. He thinks it's over. The feeling you get, the high you get when you win a fight is ridiculous. So if he's feeling that now, well, he obviously is. He's sitting on the cage. They're telling him, and he's saying it's not over. Look, he goes obviously is. He's sitting on the couch. Right, they're telling him and he's saying, it's not over. Look, he goes, fuck. He realizes it right now. It's not over.

1:59:34Which is crazy. Yeah. Because if he just followed up with one or two shots, 100% it would have been over. Yeah. But didn't the bell buzzer go when he landed that knee? Maybe, yeah. I think you're right. I think it was like right there. Yeah. I think he landed the knee and then the buzzer went off right afterwards. Mark Hunt's walk-offs were like, I've had enough of this. Yeah. I think he landed the knee and then the buzzer went off like right afterwards. Mark Hunt's walk-offs were like, I've had enough of this. Yeah. Uppercuts. Boom. It's like he's called it over. Yeah. It's like, this is over. Crazy, man. Crazy. Bisping, what a fucking animal. Maybe the like most mentally tough guy that's ever fought in the sport.

2:00:05Just to be able to do that with one eye. He fought 11 fights with one eye. Yeah. And didn't tell anybody. Memorize the eye chart. Really? Yeah. I guess you have to. Memorize the eye chart so he could do it with his eye closed. I guess you have to. But no. Crazy. Don't they randomize what kind of? I don't know. Or maybe just like. Maybe they don't. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Do they randomize eye charts? What kind of an asshole is going to memorize an eye chart? It really depends on what you're doing. I bet they don't. I bet they don't think anyone's going to try to cheat it. I bet they just have an eye chart and you fucking memorize it. Or whatever doctor is there is probably just like, ah, they didn't change it from last time.

2:00:43Yeah. I guess. Maybe. I mean, but I think he memorized. But just the will to do that where you've already lost sight in one of your eyes. Yeah. And to continue to fight and know potentially you could lose sight in the other eye. So did he lose his vision from? It's gone. No, like from a shot. Yes. Was it an eye poke or a punch? Vitor. He got head kicked. Yes, that'll do it. Yeah. He got head kicked and that was the first of many eye surgeries. So I remember he was, I met him backstage after one of those fights when he had had, like, one of his first surgeries, and he had, like, oil in his eye. They had injected something in his eye to protect his eyeball. It was crazy. Like, his eye looked really strange.

2:01:27Yeah. I was like, what's going on with your eye? He was explaining to me he had this surgery to protect his eye. I think by that time he had already lost a lot of his vision. According to a comment on Reddit. He said the doctor was out of the office bisping, went right up to it and memorized the eye chart. I think that's what he did. If it's on Reddit, you can take that to the bank. Well, how about Shara Bullitt? Shara Bullitt, who's fighting Izzy, he's only got one eye, too. Yeah, when's that? Is that Doha? I think so. Well, he has to fight over there. I don't think he's allowed to fight over here. I think if you fight over here, you're blind in one eye. They won't let you fight. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2:02:06He's beaten, like, top-level guys with one fucking eyeball. Yep. Here's another guy who got tuned up by Michael Venom Page. Yeah, yeah. Michael Venom Page just looks so annoying to fight. Because, like, obviously, it's a point of pride that I'll fight everyone and anyone. But then people are like, what about Michael Venom Page? I'm like, yeah, there's other guys. I'm like, I only want to other guys. I only want to fight guys. MVP's another guy that they didn't offer a contract to. Same thing. He won his last fight. Oh, no, really? Yeah. I mean, he only lost once in the UFC, and that was to Ian Gary. Yeah. And they didn't offer him a contract. He's gone. Is he? Yeah, he's gone. I did not know that.

2:02:50Same kind of deal. Yeah, just point sparring. They just decided that they don't want to see that. Point fighting. You know, but my take is... What do you do? My take is, like, we have to be purists about this. Fighting is fighting. Yeah. And if someone has a style like that, it's up to someone else to figure out how to beat it. Yeah. Douglas Lima figured out how to beat it in Bellator. Yeah. He leg kicked him and KO'd him. Yes yes and then he beat him in a rematch as well that's that's always been my take like if if i had to look to dissect him because when i was a middleweight obviously i'm doing that with most of them it's it's this leg kicks agile guys agile guys good footwork you got to chop the tree down have to you you've got to it's the only way you

2:03:28got to slow those feet and most people don. You've got to. It's the only way. You've got to slow those feet. And most people don't realize when you're watching it, because the guys are moving around, they look normal, they're so compromised. Like one or two hard calf kicks and you're so compromised. Calf kicks are the worst, aren't they? Crazy. Like one good calf kick. Not only do you run the risk of breaking that, what is it, fibula? I don't know what it is. Fibula. One of them. Yeah. like breaking that what is it fibula i don't know what it is but that fibula one of them yeah you are like because that's like breaking that's real yeah like breaking that's real but it hurts and it just it just stuffs you up and your your leg doesn't work

2:04:01right you see that all the time where guys just their leg doesn't work right right now and they're trying to move around it's just not responding correctly correctly. Most of their weight is on their other leg and they're faking it. They're faking their movement. Once that leg's compromised, it opens you up to more leg kicks. It's harder to defend the next calf kick. What Pratas did to Jack. My God. When Jack went back to the corner and he yelled at the end of the round, they're like, hey, don't fucking yell. No ah. Don't say ah when he kicks you don't do that yeah but it was so much pain i was saying i was watching it and saying ah he was just punishing punishing them punishing them and uh that was always

2:04:41like a hole jack had to fill it was very Yes. Boxing, heavy on the front leg. And you just, yeah. The thing, too, is like those guys who are really good at switching stances have a giant advantage. If you're one of those guys that must stand orthodox or must stand southpaw and you get that front leg compromise and now all of a sudden you're in a bad position, you're 50% of what you really are. Yes. And guys like TJ Dillashaw, they're constantly switching. Guys like Corey Sanhagen, constantly switching. So they're comfortable from any stance. That is such an advantage. It's such a huge part of the game. In that second fight with Izzy, he got me with a switch left straight down the pipe. And the switching put me off.

2:05:28I think Drikus did it a few times as well. He switches pretty well. You're exactly right. It is such a powerful maneuver, an ability to do. Because for that split second when you see them switch, you have to take your strategy and then move over to your southpaw strategy. Right. Instantaneously. And then take it into consideration that all these punches are coming at totally different angles now. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And all your attacks come at totally different angles now too because you're dealing with a completely different defensive position. Exactly. And then how fast you make that adjustment is obviously where fight IQ and everything else comes into it. It's just, it's make or break.

2:06:05And it seems to be really popular right now. I feel like guys coming into MMA are like really big switch hitters. They're starting it. Because it takes a while. It takes years of practice to get comfortable in both sides. So I can fight in Southpaw, but my defensive game isn't anywhere near as good as my orthodox side. And that's kind of what you need when you're standing in a different stance. Well, that's one of the reasons why Terrence Crawford is so great. You know, his coaches told him, hey man, stop fucking around with southpaw. Just stick to one side. He's like, what? Fuck you. Figure it out. And so he got to a point where he's the best switch hitter since Marvin Hagler. He can switch up. and so you don't know

2:06:50what's coming. He'll start off and fight Southpaw and you're like, oh, he's fighting Southpaw. And then all of a sudden he's Orthodox and he stuns you and now it's Southpaw again. Now he's Orthodox again. He's just switching back and forth and combinations are coming freely from both sides. It's such an advantage. Because it's like, fighting Southpaws and fighting Orthodox fighters, they're like two different strategy sets. Like, a Southpaw game and fighting Orthodox fighters, they're like two different strategy sets. Like a Southpaw game and an Orthodox game, they're very different. Very different shots, very different openings, like very different opportunities. And especially in MMA where wrestling is obviously prevalent.

2:07:24So having that lead leg not there. Like if you're an Orthodox guy and you're used to shooting that orthodox side, that lead leg, that lead left leg, and they switch, your takedown games are off. And if you're a wrestler, that's tough. Yeah, I would feel like if you're a young fighter and you're just learning right now, my God, start switching. There's no reason to not do it. I think that's what they're all doing. I think they have to. There's a lot of orthodox, right-handed kids that are just starting in Southport now. But then part of me says, but what if you just developed such an elite style with one stance? There's something to that too. Yes. Just getting so good at checking kicks and so rock solid in one stance.

2:08:09Yeah. Like Pereira. He doesn't switch. Very rarely. Yeah. Very rarely. If he does, it's just like while he's throwing combinations, he'll switch a little bit. Yeah. But it's generally that left hook. Yeah. It's coming out of nowhere. And that right hand. And that calf kick. That's so weird. He's hitting you with like. His big toe. Yeah. Because his big toe toes like this big he's seen the size of his feet man he's like digging the side of his foot into your calf yeah and that that protrusion of like where his toe hammer toe oh man yeah he's got a heart as a rock he's got like a foot built for that kid he's got like a little hammer yeah he's like tagging your your calf muscle and his posture doesn't break at all he's got long long foot built for that kick. He's got like a little hammer. He's like tagging your calf muscle.

2:08:49And his posture doesn't break at all because he's got long legs. He's tall, obviously. And he can just chip away to like a jab. He doesn't need a close distance, doesn't need to back away. Body posture, body positioning doesn't change. For striking, the tall, long stance is such an advantage. Yes. It's a giant advantage. And you can speak to that because like you've been in situations where you've had a spar and when you're or fight people that are much taller than you, it's such a weird thing. They're so far away from you and they can hit you and you can't hit them. So you have to do all these things to try to get in and get reads out of them. I've never lost to someone shorter than me. Here, look that up.

2:09:30It's such an advantage. That's one of the things why I moved up to light heavyweight was because in middleweight, I was fighting, everyone was taller than me anyway. Like Dorita, Izzy, Drikus, Chamayev, they're all taller than me. They're all 6'2", 6'4". So there wasn't much change. There wasn't much difference. These guys are just bigger, obviously heavier, and slower. Well, the freak of the division is Bulgare. You ever see Bulgare's? You know, that really tall dude who's a kickboxer? Oh, yes. Yes, yes, yes. Come over. Am I pronouncing his name incorrectly? There's so many names in the UFC that I fuck all of them up I combine them all together even ones that I know just so my brain doesn't recognize it it's because there's also like a ton of the

2:10:16same names in there yeah but there's that many silvers and oliveras and there's a lot of silvers a lot of oliveras there's a lot of Nurmagomedovs now which is is a mouthful. Oh, a lot of Nurmagomedov's. Oh, my goodness. Yursi Bolgari. That's how you say his name. I'm pretty sure. He is the really tall kickboxer that's Alex Pereira's training partner. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So he's like 6'6", and he's fighting at 185. Yeah. Just like Pereira was. Exactly. Just fucking gigantic. He's so fucking tall for that weight class. And he's elite, elite kickboxer. Just so smooth. This episode is brought to you by Quince. Putting together a good wardrobe isn't actually that hard. You just need the right pieces

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2:12:50Visit LifeLock.com and save up to 30% your first year with the promo code JRE. That's promo code JRE or go to LifeLock.com slash JRE for 30% off. Terms apply. Do you think he'll be able to, because Pereira is an anomaly for this. How do you think his transition will be? Well, fortunately, he's training with Pereira, right? And they both were training with Glover, which I think was a big thing. Big part of it. Because Glover Teixeira, for like six years, people don't realize this, before he even got to the UFC, for six years, Glover Teixeira was the boogeyman. He was the guy that everyone was terrified of. But he couldn't get out of Brazil. So he couldn't get a visa to come to America for whatever reason.

2:13:40So he couldn't fight in America. So he was just training and fighting in Brazil. And everybody would talk about, when you would talk to the high-level guys, like, who's the scariest guy that's not in the UFC? He's like, Glover. Glover's a fucking monster. And by the you would talk to the high level guys like who's the scariest guy that's not in the ufc is glover glover's a fucking monster yeah by the time he got to the ufc he was already in his mid to late 30s so he had already and he won the title in his 40s yeah right so he he had already passed his prime probably you know and he is so knowledgeable he obviously elite brazilian jiu-jitsu black black belt, phenomenal wrestling, and then great striking as well and knows how to combine the two of them together.

2:14:14And so with him working with Alex, I think it really sharpened his striking skills. Yeah. And that's when he won the title. And then on top of that, like when he beat Jan Bohovic, and then on top of that, him working with Alex really tightened up Alex's takedown defense, really tightened up his grappling game. They kind of filled each other's holes. Yes. And they're both like super elite at what they do and both very smart. Glover's wrestling and jiu-jitsu top game was crazy. Insane. Insane. He'd take you down and he's not like a lay and pray sort of guy. Maul you. He gets you down and he's going to beat you up. Yeah, he was mauling people. Like that Anthony Smith fight. Oh God, yeah. And again, he was a guy that was

2:14:54Chuck Liddell's training partner way back in the day. That's why I first heard about him. Old head from the Pitt days with John Hackleman way back in the day. So I had heard about Glover way back then and they were like dude this guy's a motherfucker man yeah and it took forever for him to get to the UFC yeah yeah and so him training was so Bulgari's training with Pereira and Glover I think is a giant I'm saying his name right I think so but pull up uh pull up his last fight because he um I'm trying I can't remember the dude's name. He, yeah, that's it. Mansour Abdul Malik. And Abdul, you're C. Bulgari. And Abdul Malik is super talented and massive potential. And Bulgari just tuned him up, man.

2:15:45Just tuned him up. It's just the difference in striking was so different. I mean, he has a victory over Pereira in kickboxing. Pereira stopped him in one of the fights, knocked him out cold, but they fought three times, but he's that good. So he's that elite on his feet, and he's super tall, and because of all the training that he's had with Glover, like, look at this. Take down defense, phenomenal. Get back up to his feet quickly, separates. He's fighting it well well and Malik is an excellent wrestler he's really good and really strong and super athletic and and had up until this point been undefeated was mauling people inside the UFC but Yursi just put it to him man and it was a bad one too because Abdul Malik is so tough that he endured maybe more punishment than he should have and

2:16:34Really got badly beaten up in this fight when when you're that tall as well You can get such power like all these fucking knees. You're such big leathers Yes, like Tommy Hearns, you know that that like you're getting all that leverage behind those shots this the wide shoulders and the length of the arms, and it's all, like, accelerating to the target and all your weights. Look at that left hook. Oh, my goodness. So it's just a matter of time. He just keeps getting touched over and over and over again. And Bulgari's just doing it so slick. And it was just a brutal, brutal beatdown. And then he came back, Abdul Malik came back, I think a little too soon in his next fight and lost again. Just didn't seem like the same guy.

2:17:20He was just getting, and survived too many of these, man. Too many of these moments where he was getting just destroyed. Yeah. And now he's screaming at him while he's down. Oh, Jesus. He was saying he was out. I think that might have been the end of the round no it was but I think he was also saying he was out yeah I wasn't calling it I think he was he certainly was close to it and then he got beat up again in the next round tight kickboxing hook exactly it's just when you know and you can speak to this when you're fighting a guy who's not that's on his base you can get so good if you're a wrestler and you start striking when you're fighting a guy who's not, that's on his base, you can get so good.

2:17:51If you're a wrestler and you start striking when you're 28, you can get pretty good. But there's stuff that happens in a long, prolonged fight where there's a series of exchanges, where there's openings that you're going to leave that you're not aware of. Yep. And then a striker, a seasoned striker is going to be able to capitalize on those. And you throw in fatigue as well. Right. When you start relying on instincts and things, you said like sleepwalking almost you know you get that tired right like yeah if you if you you're gonna you're gonna go back to the roots to what got you to where you are right right right especially when you're tired and when a guy's tired but he's very efficient at striking you could still throw tight combinations. You don't

2:18:32get wild and loose. Which is one of the craziest things about Strickland. When he's tired, he gets wild and loose. Literally like windmill punches at an elite level. And it looks like from all the clips in his Instagram, he spars like that too. He's just gassed and thrown bombs. And he's always sparring. I know, always. Always sparring. That's a main part of his training is sparring. But I guess if you have his style, you can spar more than others, right? You're not taking the head trauma that his partners are. That's true. That's one of the things that he spoke to. He said he spars more than anybody and he gets hit less than anybody. Yeah, yeah. And, yeah, that's – There's something beneficial.

2:19:16I think his sparring partners probably shouldn't be sparring as much. But, I mean, look, if you can train with that guy, you're going to learn some stuff. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that guy, that's like battle tested. He's been in so many fucking wars. He's going through something with the UFC right now where like he says his heart isn't in MMA anymore. He wants to get out. He wants to be able to box Jake Paul. Oh, I don't know. He's like, he's the one guy that he says some wild crap, but a lot of it happens. He gets away with it. Like when he said, I'm just going to sit out until I get my title shot. Everyone's like, ah, you're an idiot. What are you doing? What are you doing? Lo and behold, two years later, he's fighting for the belt.

2:19:58Right. Straight up. I don't know. At the end of the day, he's a fan favorite and that's a big factor. If you're trying to sell a fight and the UFC needs to sell fights and if you've got a world champion like Hamzat and you need someone to fight him who better to sell the damn fight than Sean Strickland He's gonna talk mad amounts of shit. Oh, and it's gonna be racist It's gonna be racist and you know that gets people watching Oh, yeah, just because of the controversy of it all. Well, he knows how to stir up the pot. Oh, my goodness. Doesn't he? That's for sure. Doesn't he? Were you surprised by the Hamzat fight? As everyone else was. Yeah. Like, I don't know what to take from it. I think Hamzat lost too much weight.

2:20:45That's what I had heard. I had heard he had given up on 185 and he wanted to go up to 205 and challenge for the belt and was training and preparing for that. And then they offered him a big money fight with Strickland, and he decided to take the fight with Strickland, but I don't think they gave him a lot of time. I think for that guy, he gets so fucking big that I think he needs a lot of time to get down to 185. That makes more sense to me than Strickland having the perfect anti-Chemayev game. Well, do you remember when Chemayev missed weight with Nate Diaz by like eight pounds? Yeah. Yeah. It's that kind of thing. It's like what he was doing was kind of bananas. Yeah, which is crazy because he started at welterweight.

2:21:27Same thing. He did that fight island, welterweight, middleweight, back to back. Yeah. Which kind of put him on the map and then he disappeared for a little bit. Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, he's a controversial character to put it lightly. Yeah. Very. But God damn, when he's on, like when he picked up the leech and he carried him over to Dana White and he's just talking shit while he's mauling him. Yeah. Yeah. When you have that level of control, and I'm going to jump back to that Drickers fight. It's just talking shit while he's mauling him. Yeah. Yeah. When you have that level of control. And I'm going to jump back to that Drikus fight. It's just. Nuts. To do that to Drikus, to the champion.

2:21:59I know. Like it wasn't, it was crazy. Yeah. And even the closest round, which was round five, a lot of those positions were given to him, taken away from him by the ref anyway. Right. Like the ref was like, all right, here you go. Here's a shot for you, Aldricus. Well, it was almost like it was enough, like enough control. Like, come on, we want to see something happen. Get up. Yeah. I want to get your opinion. What do you think about that pressure hold game? Like, because if someone walks into your house and holds you down for 15 minutes, you're in trouble. Right. Regardless. Yeah. But where does it stop of like where it's not fighting anymore? Right. It's just control. Yeah. Where is that?

2:22:48It's a good question. Yeah. I am a purist, and I believe if someone could hold you down like Ben Askren used to do in Bellator and just give you no ease for five rounds, that's it. And if you want to get up, figure out a way to get up. And if you can't get up, well, you're definitely losing. You might not be losing the way Gonzaga beat Prokop, but you're losing. You're losing the fight. And I think you have to be a purist. You can't do it and they'll, whoa, no, people stop tuning in. No, they won't. Because most people aren't going to fight like that. Yeah. People might boo. Okay. Let them boo. Yeah. This is what fighting is. People are going to boo anyway. They're animals. People always want something to boo about.

2:23:26Well, it's like if you had a fight like that after, like, did you see the Salt Lake City card? When was that? That was recently, like a couple weeks ago. Was it Allen? No, the main event was Joshua Vann and Pantoja. Was that LA? No, that was LA. Am I wrong? Yeah, I'm wrong. What was the, no, the main event was it was the women's flyweight title. Natalia Silva. Yeah. Natalia Silva and Wong Tong. Yes. That was the main event. But all the fights up to that were fucking chaos. It was all first-round chaos. I think the most knockouts in the card, wasn't it? Yes. So, Davidson Peguerero got knocked out by Peyton Talbot. Rebovix knocked out King Green. Soldich and Chaos Williams was a crazy fight. Went to United States Division.

2:24:17And that was when Roman Kapilov knocked out Atteba Gautier. So it was all these crazy, chaotic fights. And the main event was fucking fantastic. It was a great main event. Even though a lot of people were talking shit about it, it was a great fight. A lot of fun. But if you had a fight like that on that card so every i think it was like 10 first round stoppages if you had a fight where it was just a boring hold them down and give them noogies the crowd's gonna go nuts yeah they're gonna you yeah yeah yeah this is gay yeah the fans of this sport are funny aren't they oh yeah they are funny. They are the best and worst of them. They jump ship so quickly. It's like you have one hard fight, and you've been fighting for any amount of time,

2:25:00and you're washed. It's 11 knockouts. Broke the UFC record for the most knockouts in a single UFC event, surpassing Imovov versus Bojalio. That was Johnny Walker's heavyweight debut, wasn't it? Yes, yes. You know what's funny? I tuned in and I was watching it and I was like, man, I don't like this light heavyweight stuff. Because I remember Johnny Walker from being a light heavyweight and when I first saw him, I was like, man, maybe I should go back to midway because I still thought he was there. And then And when I first saw him, I was like, man, maybe I should go back to midway because I still thought he was there. And then I saw the heavyweight thing and I was like, ah. Well, I think he was the point of diminishing returns

2:25:38where he lost so much weight to make light heavyweight. Yeah, definitely. He couldn't take a shot. Yeah, no, at all. No. Yeah. When Jamal Hill knocked him out and he hit him with a straight right to the forehead and he just like. Yeah. Yeah, I just don't think he could take a shot with that. He was so dehydrated. His brain was dehydrated. And he did it for so long, though. Like, it took so long for him because he got hit in that fight, too, by heavyweights. Yeah. But also his power carried over. 100%. Well, he was always powerful. Yeah. And when you're 205, the difference between a guy who could knock you out at 205 and the guy who can knock You out above that it's not much. No, not much bit those big guys like that. Yeah. Yeah, they're the one once you're above

2:26:20205 Everyone's got that touch of death almost like that's how I treat training right now It's just like just so do you you approach like fighting differently now? Like are you thinking differently as you're fighting because you can't make any mistakes? Definitely. Definitely. And can I can I quickly run to the boss? I'll be right back, folks. We've got to be. And we're back. So we're talking about you training differently and fighting differently with bigger guys. You have a very distinctly different mindset. Yeah, definitely. Well, it all started when I was at my last fight at middleweight with Dorito. I did not enjoy that camp. I did not enjoy that fight. Something was missing. The flame, the flare, the fire kind of fizzled out a little bit.

2:27:13And at that point I was like, man, what am I doing? Something has to change. I'm not enjoying it as I should be. And obviously the 12-week camp or whatever you do before the fight leads itself a lot to that. Like it lends itself. Yeah, it makes the whole thing a drag, you know? But then the changes, I was like, well, let's go to light heavyweight. People have been saying for years, like, you should go to light heavyweight. Because I've always been a heavier set guy. And I was like, okay, I'm going to do this. And then, but more than that needed to change. I wanted to enjoy fighting. I wanted to bring the love back for it. So I just started being a bit freer. You know how we were talking about a happy Rob is Dan it. So I just started being a bit freer.

2:27:53You know how we were talking about a happy Rob is Dan's Rob? I started being a bit freer. I stopped, like whilst fighting is, like I'm hyper-focused on fighting and that is like something, that is the objective, that is the goal. I took a little bit off, stepped away a little bit from it so that I could go to my kids' soccer games, you know, instead of running sand hills and things like that. I started enjoying kind of the moments between fighting, which is, there's a lot, right? So just enjoying that made such a big mental difference. And then I took that into the workroom and in the workroom, a big thing was just like, let's not get hit. Let's try not to get hit at all. These guys are big guys.

2:28:38Every one of them has the touch of death. Let's not play around with that. Let's not roll the dice. Let's try to be as evasive and as technical as I can. Because that's where I see me having like everyone else in the division. I think my skill set is higher holistically across the board. And, yeah, that took me into that fight, and I felt really comfortable. Obviously, I was fighting a lot of nervous demons and nerves, like coming off two losses, making the move up. Everyone's seen that story. But, yeah, no, it was for the better. For the better mentally, like the way you felt. Definitely, definitely. I felt way better. The camp was much more enjoyable. The tricky part is now the after camp, the after the fight period block.

2:29:28Because I'm a bigger guy and I can eat more. Eating is a slippery slope. Yeah. Tell me about it. I'm a glutton. I know what you're talking about, man. I think everyone can relate. Yeah. It's just – so I'm trying to work on that still. Yeah. Whereas like when middleweight I could – I'd get bigger, but you can't go too crazy because, you know, you've got to get back down 85 at one point. Yeah. Whereas in light heavyweight, I can eat everything. What are you walking around at before you start your cut? I'm 106 kilos now. So is that 232? Not too bad. Yeah. But still 25 pounds. Yeah. I can train now. But still 25 pounds. Yeah. I can train now. But not great. I don't want to start a camp at this weight.

2:30:17Put it that way. Right. I think it's too heavy to start a camp. And what do you get down to when you start your camp? Probably 103. So that's, I don't know, 220. No. 225. You get 10 pounds less. It's 2.205 per kilo transferred to pounds. So what is the total? So three would be like seven. It's like 6.6 pounds. So what's the total? What? It would be like 225-ish? Yeah, from 232, you're dropping down six. Yeah, somewhat. So just enough? Yeah. Do you get close? Well, you just lose a little bit of that beer gut. What do you get down to, like, the week of the fight? I do my cut in the bath at 220. Ooh, okay. So you're still cutting 15. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, because it's, like I mentioned, I'm a good sweater.

2:31:14So I can do that in about an hour and a half. 15 pounds? Yeah. Wow. Just hop in a bath, hour and a half. The bath is the move? I've done, because I've been fighting so long and when I started, like you couldn't just Google how to cut weight. You just get these wrestling sort of camps. Right. It's very different. They'd be like, go for a 15-mile run wrapped up in sweats, which I did. That's how I started. That's how everyone cut weight in the beginning. You put on your sweats, you go for a run. But I did sauna. The problem with the sauna is if I stay too long in there, my esophagus dries out sometimes and it burns if it's hot enough, how hot are you getting in there? I'm not sure. Like I want to sweat.

2:31:54Cause, cause like when you start sweating, maybe it was too hot for too long. But, um, I talked to Ethan Ewing about that. Yeah. And one of the things that he was saying is he, he doesn't do it at like a really high temperature. He does it at like one 65. I think he was saying, well, I know the science supports that. You just need it to be hot enough to sweat. So, but that's kind of our approach. And not really weaken yourself. Yeah. That was his take. Yeah, exactly. That at really high temperatures, you're actually breaking your body down too much. And you could sweat as much at a lower temperature, but you're not going to be like tortured. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's kind of why I do bath because you just put it –

2:32:33you put it warm, you hop in, lay down. You're resting. It's like training or like running or moving or hitting mitts while I'm dehydrating. Like when I have to fight the day after. Right. You're wearing yourself out. I feel like I'm wearing myself out. I don't have the water to like sustain the muscles. It's just – and it's just it's just and it's like you can just chill out put some music on yeah that makes sense yeah i find it like comfortable almost well people are finding all sorts of different ways to figure do you water load um hit and miss with that one hit because i don't know if it actually works really yeah because like i'll do it and it'll come off but i don't know if the actually works. Really? Yeah, because, like, I'll do it and it'll come off,

2:33:13but I don't know if the weight's coming off just because the diet changed or if because it's actually because of the water. And also, like, depending on who you speak to, people water load differently. Some guys, like, restrict it. Some guys go backwards. Some guys go up to only a certain amount. Some guys go as high as they can it's just it's all kind of different i think i do it now more as like superstition that's funny just because you think you're supposed to yeah and because like it'd be worse if it does if it did work and i get in the bath and i have to cut like 20 pounds, you know? Yeah. Have you ever done it with like one of those elite weight cutting coaches? Like there's a few of those guys that people bring in that are like real experts in monitoring the exact amount of sodium you take

2:34:05and the exact amount of water you drink at this day and the amount that you drink at that day and they get you perfectly to that threshold? No, no, I haven't. But I've got to ask you, like how much, especially in like, if we look at the grassroots of fighting, like we are just two men with sticks and rocks, right? We're just like cavemen. Like how much sometimes does science dilute what it is we're doing? We're just oonga boonga-ing. We are. Sort of, but also super skillful. Yeah. There's both things that are happening simultaneously. It's like skill and technique, but it's also fucking rawr. Yes. That's in there too. And that'll get you so far. Yeah. Having that dog, that guy that'll go further than you will.

2:34:58And most fighters have it. But I wonder sometimes if the science, if sometimes we get too caught up in science, because you see that a lot with today's younger guys coming in. Their parents are getting them into it because they've been watching UFC their whole life. So the kids starting mixed martial arts with an elite program and they're doing the best things, eating the best foods, and they get too technical when a lot of the guys that are champions and stuff like that, they're just punching on in garages. Or strickling. Yeah. Or they'll just punch on in garages. Right. Or strickling. Yeah. Or they'll get strickling. Like, that's not the most scientific approach, just to constantly spar and talk shit to people

2:35:39while you're sparring them. To be fair, like, he's able to constantly spar because he's beating people up. Right. But he's beating good people up. Yeah, I'm sure it would be different if he was getting brain damage every time he stepped in there. Yes. Yeah, well, he's got a very elusive style. It's a weird style. It's tricky, isn't it? Stands straight up, hard to take down, deep kicks to the body, and a lot of it is predicated on that right leg being all fucked up. You know, he blew his leg apart in a motorcycle accident. Yeah's missing a big piece of his quad his story is actually like really cool like his comeback story it's kind of crazy yeah he's a very unusual guy and very underestimated

2:36:21in terms of his intelligence because he says so many wild things yeah but he fights intelligently and it's it's a difficult style like you see when he fought Fluffy Hernandez? Hernandez was on a tear up into that fight, and Strickland just beat the brakes off of him. Easily. Yeah. Beat the brakes off of him. It wasn't close. And the fans are brutal because as soon as that happened, everyone was like, fraud check, fraud check. That's the worst. That fraud check thing, fuck you. There's so many casuals, and not just casuals, but cruel people. Like they say cruel things for engagement, and they think they're being intelligent when they're saying it. Like, fuck off, man, you're a cunt. And fighting is like, it is the most primal, vulnerable position two men can be in.

2:37:10You know what I mean? like these are two guys out there putting their souls on the line with the consequence of getting knocked out in front of their friends and friends and family and the world yeah it's like no one takes that risk except these guys for your entertainment right and and then these guys just backstab us. Yeah. It's brutal. It's brutal. And it's usually the loudest voices are the biggest pussies. Yeah. The biggest pussies. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, it's like I heard a lot of that from Peyton Talbot after he lost to Hownie Barcelos. Yeah. They were saying fraud check, fraud check. No, no, no, no, no. He found an area of his game that he needs to improve. And then look what happened when he came back.

2:37:49Then he did. He figured it out. He figured it out, bitch. And he came back and fucked up Henry Cejudo. And he's killing people, man. He's killing people. He's so good. He's so good. I really hope that fight with him and Sugar Sean O'Malley takes place. I really hope that fight takes place. That is such a good fight. That is a gigantic fight and such a good fight on paper. Do you reckon Peyton wrestles? Because he can wrestle. I mean, he certainly did with Henry Cejudo. It's possible. I mean, that's an area of his game that he just jumped way up after the Hany Barcelos fight. Oh, my God. He took the wrestling to Cejudo. Yeah, it's crazy. When he took Cejudo down, I was like, this is madness. This kid is special. Oh, it God. He just, yeah, like he took the wrestling to Cejudo. Yeah, it's crazy.

2:38:31When he took Cejudo down, I was like, this is madness. This kid is special. Oh, it's cheeky. He's very special. He's very, very unique in his approach to this. And you can tell he's feeling himself right now. Like he's flowing. He's in that flow state right now. Yeah, man. And he loves it. He loves competing. He loves fighting. He really does. I mean, there's a lot of great fights for him. And I understand Sean's position. If I was Sean, I would not take that fight right now either. Because Piotr Jan and Rob Dławicz-Willi are going to fight this weekend. And if Piotr Jan wins again, the big fight is him and Sean O'Malley. Straight up. Because the last fight that he lost was to Sean O'Malley.

2:39:08So that is amazing. And it was close. It was very close. Yeah. And also a three-rounder. Yeah. Right? So imagine if that fight goes five, who knows what happens, right? It gets crazy. I think... And that's where the money is too. The money's there. Also, it's like, that's the fight you want. Like, yeah, Peyton Talbot would be a good fight for the fans, but that's not the right fight to take right now. It's great for Peyton. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, but there's a lot of great fights for Pey now. It's great for Peyton. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, but there's a lot of great fights for Peyton. There's so many good names. Yeah, he's right up there. He's just dismantling people too. There's so many good fights in that division.

2:39:40There's so many good fights in that division. That division is just fucking chock full of talent. You know, 135 right now is a... Yeah, it's a melting pot, isn't it? The biggest divisions right now are probably like 50s. 55 is insane. 55 is just fucking insane. There's so much talent at 55. It's fun right now. Yeah, it's fun. 70s, fucking insane. Yeah. You know, it's like there's 45 is insane. And 55 is all laying on whether or not Justin decides to retire. What does he do? Who does he fight? Who do you think he fights? I think Armin's the fight. Yeah. The big fight is Armin, especially after what Armin did to Hufi. That's the big fight. And also it's like that's the most compelling fight because Armin looks like indestructible.

2:40:26Yes. He looks like the guy. Yeah. And he's like that Hufi really made a statement, really cemented the argument. And arguably he's already supposed to fight for the title. Right. If it wasn't for that one thing where he hurt his back the day before he was fighting Islam, it would have already happened. Yeah. And look, he fought Islam in his first fight ever in the UFC on short notice. What a guy to debut on. Right. That close. I mean on. Right, and that close. I mean, razor-close decision loss to Islam. One of the best ever. Yeah, so he's really fucking good, and that's the fight. However, if I was Justin and I'm looking at the landscape and I'm like, well, who do I fight? I mean, you could fight if Oliveira wins in his next fight

2:41:12and Oliveira retains the BMF title, and then Justin fights him in a rematch for the BMF title and for the lightweight title together. I could see that fight too. But it seems like you're denying Armand what he's deserved. Yes. Armand deserves a title fight. And he's been fighting. Yeah. And fighting H been fighting. Yeah. And fighting Hoofy, especially after the performances Hoofy's been putting on lately. Especially the one in the White House against Chandler. That was an execution. Yeah. That one was crazy. I saw that coming, but. Saw it coming. I think everyone saw it coming. I was saying, Chandler, I really hope you figure something out here. Yeah. But Chandler's style is so difficult to handle,

2:41:53that long, tall, elite striker at this stage of his life. I mean, Chandler's 40. Yeah, exactly. At this stage of his life. That makes me wonder. It's like, look at Gaethje. Look at Chandler. Look at most of the guys in my division. I think I'm one of the younger ones. Right. The age of these athletes are just going up well i think with proper training and with all the different sports science modalities today like particularly people that using hyperbaric chambers red light therapy saunas cold plunges massage all these different training methods that they're doing to strengthen all their tissues and make sure they don't get injured and increasing their cardio scientifically and all the nutrition.

2:42:35Everybody's got everything dialed in. You can extend your lifespan a lot further than you could a few years back. Well, I hold a great belief in longevity. That's why me and my wife actually just created an app that like really focuses on sports science, longevity. What is it called? Ascend Fitness by Rob. All right. There's something. Like, so what's, there it is. Yeah, there it is. Handsome bastard. So what is, what's going on in this? What's in the app? It's, it's honestly, it's programs just like built around around making what got me to be able to perform for so long. Because you know how rare it is to be able to fight at this level for the length of time. That's always the hardest thing is the longevity.

2:43:22The turnover rate in the UFC is super fast. So doing these little things, performance training, conditioning, to make life better. We just want to make life better. But what we do differently, and this is kind of an avenue, that I started playing with the idea when I wasn't going on a title run before I had my success in my last fight. It's like I want to move into health, fitness with my wife. I always wanted to do it with my wife because she's the one that got me into everything. So I wanted to be able to give back, create an community, get guys on board, start working up. Like we have monthly Q&As where people can talk to me. Like I want to get to know people. I want to be able to tell them, like give me questions.

2:44:05We have a bunch of coaches on board that can give like form feedback straight away, but also just to talk to. I think that's so important, especially with training. Like you need that human element of what's going on, how you're feeling, where's your head at. Because that, as we spoke earlier, it's like happy Rob's a dangerous Rob. That mental ability, it's like when you're feeling on top of the world and you can do anything, like we try and make sure you have that every day just by check-ins, by talking and things like that. I'm going to sneeze. I'm going to hope I don't blow my back out. Flex that. Because when this fucking thing hurts and I'm like, all right, I'm okay. Flex that. Flex that core.

2:44:46So have you ever worked with a sports psychologist? Yeah, throughout my career, I have. I spoke to one. What do they do for you? It depends. I think guys, and this is just my take, okay, because everyone has their own take on everything. I think guys sometimes just need to talk, like just shit talk. You know, like I think that's why pub culture was so important for men, you know, going through the years because they lower their guard a little bit and they just start shit talking. Like what we're doing now. This is great. We can just start. We're just talking. And in that, I'm venting. I'm letting out stresses. I'm saying things that make me vulnerable. I'm saying things that, like, I just want another opinion on.

2:45:35Because, like, sometimes you just need to say something, and then you need the other guy to be like, nah, you're a pussy. You know what I mean? And sometimes that gets you going. You're like, you know what, yes. Or he goes, nah, it'll be all right. And, you know, you're just talking. I think talking is so important. Right. It helps you come to grips with just talking. I think talking is so important. Right. It helps you come to grips with whatever the thing is bouncing around inside your head by yourself. Yeah, because as men, as fighters, some of our thoughts aren't like talk to your wife thoughts. You know what I mean? Like to all the women out there this one's to the bed like we get it you get it

2:46:14like our thoughts are sometimes stupid but we just need a place to put them right and put them with another man who's gonna understand dude I get it someone's gonna say I get it I think so and then obviously that's why like support circles and friends and family are super important. Having those guys you can turn to and just talk to, man. Yeah, well, when guys run afoul in their gym and have to leave the gym, that's always a giant problem. Because the people that you train with on a daily basis, you spar with, you grind with, those are like brothers. Yep. And people who have gone to competition with people that they've trained with constantly, like you have so much invested in them. Like you – it's sometimes – I've seen this with training partners where their friends fighting makes them more nervous than when they're fighting.

2:47:11Oh, yeah. Because the love that they have for these guys. I can't go to any of my teammates' fights. Like, it kills me. Like, it just kills me. But you're 100% right. Like, guys you've bled and sweat with in the gym for any amount of time, like, you build a connection there. Like, even if you don't like them. Like, there's heaps of guys in my gym that, like, I don't bond with. Like, I want to go, I'm not going to go to him and be like, Hey, let's go grab some food. But you still root for him. If he, if he calls me up and says, I need help. I'm getting jumped. I'm there. I'm in the car already. Like we're that close. Right. Or if like, if he's like, yeah, it's just, you build that sort of bond.

2:47:46Like it's a brotherhood. Yes. You know? And so when you see a guy like leave a gym, it's like, ooh. Yeah, that's got to be huge. I've never had that happen. I don't know what happened with Izzy. I don't know what's going on. But I know he left City Kickboxing. And that was a stunner for me. I was like, I can't believe. Because Eugene Barrowman has been a staple part of his career. And he's an amazing coach. He's so good. And he's such a mastermind. Yep. He's one of the few real legitimate masterminds in the sport. So when I saw that, I was like, oh, no. Like, that's a bad place to be. Like, psychologically. Yes. You leave the family. Yeah. That's. And for all I know, I think he's still living in New Zealand, too.

2:48:29And that was huge for me because I had just trained with him there. I was just training with him there. And then I found that out. And obviously I'm still going to go to CKB and stuff because I have a good relationship with them and I did some really good work with them. And for me, everywhere is so far for Australia. Right. Australia is on the arse end of nowhere. I realised that coming flying here, it was like, to get to Austin, it was like 17 and a half hours of flight time. Oh my God. Like, we're so far. Well, that's why people want to build bunkers over there. Exactly. That's like the selling point. All those fucking billionaire dudes who are like worried about the end of the world, they all get a bunker in either New Zealand or Australia.

2:49:14Well, that's why I like New Zealand. Because obviously, the Kiwis, guys, they're big boys. And you've got some good prospects like Navajo, Sterling Wright, Mal, Carlos Ulberg, obviously, Tyson Pedro, these big boys that I can work with. But for me, it's only like three hours. That's not bad. Yeah, like three-hour, it's only like three hours. That's not bad. Like three hour flight. That's great. Yeah. That's great. Like, yeah, I can't ask for more. Yeah, you guys live in a crazy country. It's so big and there's so few people in it. So it's so, everything's so far away. But a lot of like the non, I don't know, a lot of it's desert. I know, but you have the population of Los Angeles in a country the size of the United States. Don't know a lot of it's desert i know but you have the population of los angeles

2:49:51in a country the size of the united states don't say like that don't say like that you guys always like it's not a bad thing you guys always come over here like oh that's cute no listen i love australia i love it there i love the people they're very friendly it's a fun culture i really do love australia but i mean the the, just the actual geography of Australia is crazy. And it's filled with things that want to kill you. Yes. Well, you guys got to start killing those crocodiles. No, but- Bring back killing crocodiles. Make that fun again. Make that fun. Why are you guys letting the crocodiles live? That's insane. They're protected and they're eating people. They're not eating people. They're eating people they're eating people. They're not eating people.

2:50:31They're eating people. Oh, mate, if you are stupid enough to go for a swim in the river that you clearly can't see the bottom of. Listen, this is how I feel. If I live in a place and I'm a human, anything else that lives in the place that wants to kill me should be dead. Dead. Fuck you. This is my ground. I'm the person. I'm the one with the brain, the opposable thumbs and I have the guns. Fuck off. If you want to eat my kids, I kill all of you. There's none of you left. I put a few of you in a zoo and we could stare at you from behind the glass. Fuck you forever. It's funny. Alligators seem cute by comparison to crocs. They do. Alligators are kind of like dopey crocs. Have you ever seen what happens when they get the two of them together?

2:51:18When they feed them? So there's this place in Florida where they have alligators and crocodiles all intermingling and Nile crocodiles. And so when they feed them, the crocodiles run over the top of the alligator's heads to get the food. They're like, fuck you. Give me that food, bitch. You're just a pretend crook anyway. It's like the difference between a fucking golden retriever and a pit bull. The thing that gets me, like brown snakes are annoying. I hate those because they're like kids. Well, because they kill you. Yeah, they're very poisonous. Only a person in Australia would say they're annoying. I hate those because I like kids. Well, because they kill you. Yeah, they're very poisonous.

2:51:51Only a person in Australia would say they're annoying. But they don't hang out with you. It's not like they're trying to invade. Oh, I understand. You just don't go into any hot bushes. So you have to go into a hot bush. The funnel webs as well. They're very venomous, but just don't put your hands in any wet holes. Yeah. Always good advice anyway. Good advice. Solid advice. Can keep you out of trouble, trust me guys. Take it to the bank. You have so many different bugs and spiders. Like my friend Adam Greentree, he lives over there. He just got bit two months ago by some fucking spider when he was camping. And it's like lethal. He almost died. No. And it's like lethal. He almost died. No. Yes.

2:52:32Really? Yeah. I forget what it's called. Some green something or another. He told me, and apparently it didn't even get him. What happened was as he slapped it, it was crawling on him. And as he slapped it, its stinger went into him a little bit. Yeah. But not enough to kill him because otherwise it would have been lethal. No, really? Yeah. You know, and I thought of this just now. Maybe the reason why we let them all live is to keep people out. It's not a bad idea. That's a great idea. Right. You keep your population low. It's like less problems. Because like a lot of Americans are like, Australia, everything's trying to kill you. I've never gone to Australia. It's like. It's not that bad.

2:53:08I have friends that go over there and hunt all the time. But it is a great country in terms of like the spirit of the people. Yes. They're a fun people. Yes. Generally speaking, Australians are fun. It's a great place to do comedy. It's like they have a good time. Yeah. It's like it's a great drinking culture. It's a great laughing culture. It's a lot of fun. The drinking culture is a slippery slope. Because we probably like it a bit too much. As it is everywhere where it's fun. Yeah. It's fucking Ireland or anywhere. The vibe at the club last night was just amazing. The energy was so good. It was my first time. And that has sparked my ambition to go to ones in in sydney and and stuff well this is a

2:53:53great comic that uh lived in austin for a while and he moved to australia james mccann he's one of my favorites he's one of the best up-and-coming comics in the world right now and fucking hilarious australian dude and he went back he he just his wife just had a new baby and she wanted to like get help with the family and so they went back to australia but a new baby, and she wanted to get help with the family, and so they went back to Australia. But he's planning on coming back to America again. Yeah. But if he's performing in Australia, I'll send you to him. Yeah. Because he's fucking great. He's so funny. I've got- There he is. McCann. Performing in November. Oh, there he is. So Perth, Adelaide, Sydney, and Brisbane.

2:54:29Yeah. In November. Yeah, go see that dude. I've got the itch now. Fucking brilliant. Yeah, I've got the itch. That was a great time. It's fun, right? It's fun. It was great. It was just like relaxed. Everyone's laughing. Like laughter is special. Yeah. It's special. It gives you a special sort of energy. I'm very big on energy of people and stuff like that. So when you put them all in one place and it's just. With one goal, to have a good time. Exactly. And that's, it's one of the few places in the world really where everyone comes with like no baggage. Right. Like no one comes with any sort of expectation of everyone has the same goal, same objective. Yeah. Good intentions. Go there to have a good time.

2:55:11And that's sort of burned into the spirit of the building by this point. You know, we've been open for a few years. It's like just I really believe that. Like the Comedy Store in LA is a great example of that. When you go there, it's like burned into the walls of the building, the laughter, all the years of fun and excitement. Yeah, like the energy seeped into the concrete. Yeah. And you can feel it. It's like you've got a culture. It's like a heaviness to it when you walk through it. It was cool. Can't thank you enough. That's awesome, brother. I'm glad you had a good time. And I'm glad we did this. You know, I've been a fan of yours for a long time. And I've always loved hearing you talk at interviews.

2:55:47I'm like, that'd be a fun guy to have on the podcast. Yeah. And you are. You're great, man. This has been so much fun. Oh, my pleasure. You should probably do your own podcast. You'd be great at it. Yeah. I do have one on YouTube. Oh, you do? Yeah. And I'm arcade. But we just talk about fights and video games. Oh, nice. Like Mighty Mouse. Yeah, yeah. Well, yes. Yes, to a degree. Nice. Have you done his podcast I have plenty of times he's a great guy to talk to I fucking love that dude another energy another piece of energy like he just his vibes when you're talking to him because he you know what it is and it's not rocket science you just have to be invested in the person you're talking to yes

2:56:24that's it yeah for real you have to really be there yeah that's it and he's great at that you're obviously the maestro of it. Like talking with you is just so easy. Hours just fly by. It's so much fun. Oh, thanks. I'm glad you had fun, man. It flies by for me too. You know, it's just that the key is only talk to people you actually want to talk to. That way you never have to fake it. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But yeah, Mighty Mouse is awesome at that. And to me, he's like one of the greatest examples ever of mixed martial arts excellence. Like watching him perform when he was at his best. He was just a master. Yes. Just a master. Yeah. One of the all-times. And Kenny, that flying armbar. Oh my God.

2:57:01Like to chain that. Suplex into an armbar in a fight. Yeah. It's just, yeah, he does things that, it's like you're playing the game. Yeah, dude. You know what I mean? And his speed. There's something about the speed of flyweights, too. One time I grabbed him at a UFC just to say hi, just fucking around. I grabbed him from behind, and he turned around and he went, ta-da! He hit me with two knees to the body. Like, didn't hurt me, just touched me. But they were so fast, my brain didn't process it. My brain was like, what? What did you just, how did you do, what the fuck just happened? Because it's one thing to watch it play out, but it's another thing when those knees just come at your body like that,

2:57:39and you realize, like, that's the speed that they're competing at. Yeah. Like when you watch Joshua Vann versus Pantoja, the chaos. What a fight. How good is Joshua Vann? Oh, yeah. And I'm so happy he, like, silenced everyone about that Pantoja fight. How good is Joshua Vann? Oh, yeah. And I'm so happy he silenced everyone about that Pantoja fight. Well, he kind of did with the Tyra fight. Because the Tyra fight was so good. I know. But dude, Joshua is another level, man. Yeah, he is. And he's just evolving. Yeah. Every fight. Just like Talbot. I think that's his new generation. Yep. Every fight. Just like Talbot. I think that's this new generation. Their ability to adapt and grow so fast between fights.

2:58:16Yep. And as a champion, I think he's even more confident than ever. It's just, oh, my God. It's such an exciting time for the sport. Those younger generation is why I'm developing an app. That's why I brought out a fitness app. Well, listen, man. Thank you for being here. Good luck with the app. Good luck with everything in your future. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. This is great. If anybody wants to get a hold of you on Instagram, what is your handle? What is it? Rob Whittaker MMA. Okay. And Twitter, do you use that? Yes, yes, yes. It's all the same handle. Website? The website is AscendFitnessByRob.com. 50% off first month. All right. Thanks, brother. Bye, everybody. Bye, everybody. We'll be right back. and makes subscriptions easier to manage. Next time you're at checkout, look for the green button.

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