13 Year Old Realizes His Twin Brother Is A Killer In The Middle Of Interrogation

0:00better being better boo welcome to part two of the two-part audio podcast that is the cart twins case if you haven't already listened to part one i highly recommend doing so we uncovered that a 64 year old woman by the name of denise tenpenny was essayed and murdered in her own home in her own bed and the only thing left behind was dna evidence that That DNA evidence led investigators right across the street, 50 feet away from Denise's home to two people, which is weird because how is DNA evidence viable for two people? Is it two people's DNA? Well, this is where it gets tricky. It leads them straight to two 13 year old brother, twin brothers, identical twins. So technically their DNA is identical. And the police have decided they think that only one of the twins is involved. They bring both twins along with their mother into the police station. They're interrogating them separately. And this is where all hell is going to break loose. So with that being said, let's get started.

1:21Hunter and Levi's mom, Becca, is in the waiting area of the police station. So she's been brought out from the room where they kept like telling her to eat the raisin canes. They bring her out and the twins' dad, Kyle, has since joined. And they're both just wanting answers. Why can't they get the twins? Why can't the twins come out? Why can't they get the twins a lawyer? What the hell are the investigators talking to them about without them or the lawyers present? When there is a situation where identical twin DNA is involved, the best thing investigators can do is look for evidence that's not DNA related. And they find it under Denise's body. The investigators come out to talk to Becca and Kyle and they tell them it's not that they randomly targeted the twins. It's that, quote, I don't know what in the world happened. We're not talking to him anymore. I mean, he doesn't want to really talk anymore. i don't know what in the world happened we're not talking to him anymore i mean he doesn't want to really talk anymore i don't know what happened we have a lot of other evidence too i'm just trying to figure out what happened she says i don't know they tell her it's not just the dna there's some certain things we're going to tell you that we have that are bad okay that watch that we showed you that belongs to one of the twins was under her body becca starts freaking out she starts sobbing alternating between putting her head in her hands to holding her chest she's pacing the area she seems like she can't sit still she doesn't really

2:39even know what to do with this information it appears Eventually she asks, what happens now? He's only 13. Oh my god. Oh my god. Eventually she's on the floor and she even apologizes to the investigators for being rude earlier. Out of all the suspects and perpetrators' parents, Becca seems like maybe one of the few that really tried her best. If you get the full FOIA file like we did, there is a lot of unredacted information that I didn't include because I don't know how relevant it is but Hunter talks to investigators of how much their family has gone through and it does appear that Becca has really tried to shield her sons from anything that could have happened the fact that she regularly puts them in therapy encourages them to talk about their feelings they even found her journal where she writes about how she's trying to parent and by all accounts it seems like she genuinely is a good parent the fact that she's been trying to be helpful this entire investigation the fact that she is apologizing to being rude to the investigators which in reality I honestly think that she was still just protecting her children there's really nothing to apologize for she never behaved in a way that made it feel like she was enabling her kids or shielding them from consequences or not participating in the investigation but when she's told it's her son's dna his watch and they found a piece of a green nitrile glove at the scene and a box of the same

3:57green nitrile gloves in his closet they've also found a pair of bloody L.L. Bean boots located in his room with visible staining and now one of the twin brothers is going to find out that his brother is guilty as well the officers leave Levi's interview room about an hour in to let him finish his food and really like sit with his thoughts and when they come back in the first question they ask him is hey do you think sometimes people do something that they regret that is out of character for themselves like do you think they do something and they kind of get scared and they don't want to talk to or tell anyone about it they ask him how his DNA ended up at Denise's house Levi asks well how's in my blood that's what we're trying to figure out they tell him that they took his DNA swabs and they compared it to the DNA in the house and Denise's house and it's not only Denise blood, but his blood is mixed in with it. It doesn't seem wild. He just asks, well, how does that work? Well, everybody's DNA is unique. Everybody has different DNA. Everybody. It's like fingerprints. Nobody has the same fingerprints in the whole world. Even brothers? Even brothers. Now, the match to the DNA was to both of them, but it's interesting that that's his response. And I think that's just what the investigators are trying to get at. When DNA is brought up again, he says, I guess everybody's is unique. I just mean like my brother is literally, well, my twin.

5:14I don't know how that would happen to begin with, how my blood would be at her house. If Levi says it's not his blood, then whose blood is it? And there's one interesting thing that Levi says. The investigators do the whole, well, we think whatever happened here is not malicious. We think it's a stupid mistake and that everyone needs to be honest so that we can talk about it. But when they say that, Levi responds, I don't think that murder is stupid though, which is like an interesting response. It's kind of odd. Back at the the house there's a search warrant being executed and investigators find marshmallow sitting very calmly just hanging out what stops investigators though is not just that marshmallow is incredibly calm and the demeanor of marshmallow is very approachable which marshmallow doesn't seem that stressed out about this move even that the fact that officers are in there just flipping up the house looking for evidence when officers approach he flops over so they can pet his tummy and that is when they notice that his claws are too small to make the injuries on the vice face even if marshmallow were pissed off what does that mean like he's like the scratch mark on his nose to get five stitches they're saying like his claws specifically are too small interesting okay which that's what they say they find in the drawer of the left nightstand of a bed confessions of a

6:31serial killer the book and a brown leather journal that just reads on the first page okay so on the very first page it has levi's name on there and the second page reads i will kill you k k k killer and in big chunky blocky letters the last page of that notebook has a handwritten instruction page on how to balance on one leg it reads stand with both feet planted firmly on the ground next slowly raise one of your feet and stand with all your body weight on the opposite leg you should be balanced on one leg reach your raised foot forward which points to it being levi because he was working on his mobility i see but it's not just the journal it's what's on levi's phone versus what's on hunter's phone on his devices he's talking to someone on tiktok and levi messages them i have very low empathy which has been confirmed also my plan i'm on track found my mo he takes screenshots of serial killers MOs. There's psychological analysis, equipment used for transport, body disposal, naming, possible planning, execution methods, body dump sites, clothing appearances. There are several photos of Levi of himself that he's taken like selfies where he's choking himself and taking a photo. Which I looked into it and it seems like sometimes people with very morbid

7:46interest who want to see what someone would look like dead will sometimes google pictures but then maybe it's not good enough so then they'll like in other messages to unknown TikTok users he's messaging about how he has a severe lack of empathy he likes hurting animals in his childhood and I guess this person tells him that he could never hurt a fly. Like, I don't think you could ever hurt a fly. Levi responds, I've killed animals before on my own with a knife. You're right. I probably couldn't hurt a fly though because they're too fast for me. He states that he doesn't kill while he hunts. He says, I don't go hunting. And he's talking about killing. He says, cats, dogs, some squirrels. Then he sends a message that reads, trying to understand my own problems. Are you sadistic at all? I'm fairly curious. Not too long after, he Googles causes of being sadistic. Then he takes screenshots of information of how serial killers subdue their victims before killing them, as well as how to strangle someone and how long that process takes, which Denise was found smothered to death. And the night of the murder, authorities are able to track Becca, Hunter, and Levi's phones. 12.53 a..m hunter plugs in his phone into the charger and locks his phone screen 2 12 a.m levi locks his phone 2 19 a.m hunter locks his phone then from 2 30 to 2 52 a.m levi's on his phone using his camera but we don't get any other information from that wait what's happening so

9:06at two o'clock ish both brothers lock their phone yeah like as in like it just shows that they turned off their phone like you know they can track when you unlock your phone lock your phone so they were both awake around yes that time okay and levi turned on the camera for how long 2 30 to 2 52 a.m 20 minutes 5 21 a.m. 20 minutes. 5.21 a.m. He unlocks his phone again and starts searching up Fairfax, Ohio Police Department. Fairfax, Ohio. Fairfax, Ohio Police Department photos. Then later, when Levi goes to his dad's house, he starts Googling again. Fairfax, Ohio photos. Fairfax, Ohio Police Department photos. Fairfax, Ohio Police Department. Does Ohio have restrictions on using familial DNA searches? What was Ted Bundy's diagnosis? What was Ted Bundy's kill kit? Fairfax, Ohio woman found dead. Fairfax, Ohio woman found dead. What was Ted Bundy kill kit? Why do you think he's searching about kill kit? I don't know. After the fact. Maybe there's more curiosity. Yeah. Then he sends a message to someone on tiktok a few days after the murder i'm probably going to get caught and then deletes that message then there's more searches on google saliva drug tests saliva swabs juvenile detention center cincinnati hamilton county youth center ways cops mess with you in the interview ways cops mess with you in

10:22the interview room two hours later after that search, Hunter and Levi are called in for police interviews. Meanwhile, on Hunter's phone, they find messages between Hunter and Becca. They do a full search of Hunter's phone. Becca is texting him that she's in the ER with Levi. Be careful around Marshmallow. Why? He's being feisty about the house moving around. Okay, he's trying to hug me right now. LOL. Part of the reason we're in the ER is because Marshmallow was sleeping levi's face and then startled each other and he got scratched on his face he took a shower and slipped and hit his face on the tile oh yikes if he gets moody just get up and walk away from him and keep him away from your face it seems like all of the digital evidence hunter like his phone did break he was sick in in the bathroom. There's no messages. There's no weird Google searches. His phone was off during the time of the crime. Whereas Levi is Googling a lot of the Fairfax, Ohio. So Hunter, it seems he did look up the case, but in the very normal way of like what's going on, like local news reporting. Yeah. and with hunter it seems like at first investigators wanted to know if they were both involved but primarily they suspected levi in the beginning but after seeing hunter's reaction to everything

11:39it just didn't strike them that he would be involved but more importantly aside from dna matching because he and le Levi are the same DNA, there's really zero evidence tying him to being involved at all. I mean, there's nothing in his phone, his journals. There's nothing in his room. There's nothing on his face or body to indicate any scratches. And he also doesn't believe that his brother is involved. Hunter tells the investigators, I'm sure from your head and the other investigators, you guys were probably thinking about like, of course, he has scratches on his face. He left the house. He had to go to the hospital all that stuff That we told you, you know is very much so corresponding to what happened And I just want you guys to know that I have no faith that my brother would be able to do something like that Like I don't know if you guys know I don't I don't know if this is spreading too much information But our family have gone through some very very traumatic things knowing that, I also know that having a very traumatic childhood could make somebody be able to do something like that. So again, that's another thing that I feel like it's just a coincidence, like way too many coincidences, like his face being scratched from him going through traumatic experiences. So it's completely possible that, and there's just so many times, Hunter looks like he's seeing the coincidences that are forming, but he stops himself and he continues i don't know like in a different universe he did that right but personally i believe i thought about it i imagined it because i'm a very imaginative person i imagine like what if levi made up this story of scratching his face

12:54and then with like what actually happened oh and then he snuck out of that night and did that horrible thing but like that was just actually i didn't believe that like that's something i don't believe that's something he could actually do after After I imagined, I was like, no, all three of us are very, very, very. We express our feelings very much so. I know that he has a lot of trauma. He's basically saying, I know Levi has a lot of trauma, but we all talk about our feelings. Like we're very open. We were all in therapy. Like that's not how we do it. He even says the day after Levi got back from the hospital. Remember, he went to go stay with his dad. Hunter says that the reason was because he was triggered. And I know that sounds suspicious, but he, and it seems like Hunter has another moment. And then he stops talking. He says that Levi told him he just wanted to leave the house because I don't know if he was upset about getting the cat scratched in the face, but it was just like the house. You know, he's crying and he was was like just this house makes me feel traumatized I don't know I feel like traumatized feeling but I'm not feeling traumatized that's the words he used but Levi has a lot of trauma he gets triggered he you know he's feeling triggered whenever I would talk about what happened across the street explain what you mean by that I don't know I'm just gonna keep saying this but this makes me feel really upset because a lot of evidence is piled up against him but I mean I don't know if you guys suspect him of anything but I truly don't believe that he could do anything like that even though he has all these things he's never talked about anything like that

14:11with you about hurting somebody when he gets triggered no no he doesn't like he doesn't behave weirdly when triggered he just doesn't he's just quiet he's it's upsetting for him he started crying when we got back to the house because he said he never gave us an explanation to why he was triggered like i'm just i am sure you guys can't tell me whether or not you're suspecting him i'm just going to tell you right now i don't believe that it's not possible it's just not possible did he say something to you no that's not what i'm saying i'm saying it's not possible he would be able to do something like that hunter says it doesn't make sense because even after the investigators came and took their dna he says i mean we joked about it i like how does it feel having your dna in the system now because he would say he's told me that he doesn't think he would be a serial killer when he's older because it just doesn't make sense to me because that's just stupid he also says that he has immense capacity for empathy for us it's just slightly less than for other people so hunter is saying like he has empathy for his family there's no way that he could be a killer hunter mentions levi would talk about how he feels like hurting people sometimes he feels empty and he feels violent he's never acted on any of that he hasn't had any impulses to kill somebody i don't know for how long i just know that for the last year it's been brought up to me i don't know how long he and mom have been talking about it i mean i've been like for my whole life a very very happy child because

15:28I think me and Levi process our trauma very differently you know while growing our brains I don't know how differently I don't know yeah Hunter says that he feels like what if he's being crazy which means nothing is happening but Levi will know that Hunter suspected him almost which means that Levi would never talk to him again because if that were Hunter he would never talk to his twin brother because the betrayal Of suspecting your brother of being a killer would be too much But also if he did do it then they need to know and Hunter says he said multiple times He's not stupid enough to do that So it's not like he's been acting erratically these past few days after he got scratched by the cat He's been acting pretty much normal. He just only acts slightly weird whenever i bring up the thing which makes sense the thing that happened across the street yeah he's disabled he's very transparent to us and his therapist about the way he feels also the doctors would have realized it and said something like they don't look like cat scratches if they weren't cat scratches like i don't remember what it's called but they said like a plastic surgeon came down and stitches nose to make it look better wouldn't the nurses or doctors have had suspicions because surely you'd be able to realize that something was a human's nail or a cat scratch he later leans back and he's almost like looking off to the side as if he's replaying the last few days in his head there's just no way obviously like there's just no way he wouldn't tell me or tell somebody if he did do that like he just goes on with his day like I know murderers do that but him I don't believe it

16:48I don't know why the investigators decide that they want to be the ones to break it down for Hunter like maybe they want to see his reaction maybe they want to see if he's going to tell them something else to confirm whose belongings these are I don't know but they show him like a very zoomed up picture of levi's watch and they it's on a tablet it's clearly a crime scene photo but it's so zoomed in that you wouldn't know what do you think about that what what do i think about what do i think about that he's just looking at the picture of the watch he's like what do you want me to think about it's just my brother's watch here let me widen it out they zoom out what do you think that's the picture of he starts like i guess hyperventilating you don't hear it on the body cam but the officer tells him to take a deep breath and he says we don't have any of those blankets right that's not your house how does the watch in the struggle was it was broken no i remember him saying that he lost his watch and when did he say that after he got home from the er i don't remember him talking about it and then when he left he came back and he said he doesn't know where he put his watch but hunter is still defending his brother the way he sounded i don't know like it was like i don't know where my watch is i don't feel a person could say that a person would say that knowing that they wore their watch if they did that they show hunter a

18:04picture of a knife that he's never seen before and he tries to tell investigators That's not the knife that they have inside their house There's just no way he did it like someone had to have planted his watch or something like planted like only proof that you could Give me is if you find his sperm DNA And if I'm right about her apparently being raped because he was on the news only thing I can believe like I'll tell you this Right now that's not a possibility the way he acted after that happened after he saw the ambulance he was like why is the ambulance outside there's no way that he could fake all of that so correspondingly to the point where I could see none of it like I didn't see any of the cracks none of it he faked all of his emotions Hunter later tries to say maybe that's not even his watch he says there's no way that my brother like there's no way someone in my family even though like all I'm gonna say is I don't believe it I'm gonna say that I think there needs to be more evidence I think there needs to be more evidence to convict him I think there needs to be more evidence I know you probably haven't shown me all the evidence but that can't be enough evidence like I know there's all these coincidences just stacked up against him but there's no way I mean my brain really goes off topic I just thought what if he lost his watch at dad's and this is all just some sort of misunderstanding and dad finds it or like he really did just miss his watch like he really did just accidentally forget where his watch is and I made a mishap and I said that's his watch even though that's not his watch and you guys show him that photo and he'll probably say like no that's not my watch like do you guys think that's

19:21his watch yes do you guys think that he did this yeah you're fully convinced yeah we haven't gotten into everything but that's why we're here and he starts breaking down and he screams no no it's not possible and he starts frantically asking like are you saying he purposefully hurt and then he goes back to there's no way he would do that like even if he did kill her there's no way he would do that like even if he did kill her there's no way he's the one who raped her like he's not that type of person on top of that I don't believe for a second I I think what's happening is that there's a really really meticulously planned smart person who planted that watch there and had been planning this for a while and it just so happens that Levi had a lot of traumatic experience and he grabbed that knife and he took the watch and they did that. He also tries to reason with the investigators because he read on the news that whoever did this, they referred to him as a man. And he was like, and Levi's not a man. Fox 19 said that he was a man. He says the chances that this is his twin brother's doing is slim to none. I have no belief that Levi, Levi doesn't have the capacity to rape and kill somebody purposefully, willingly, harmfully, having the person fight back. And also, how would mom not find out about it? And if she did find about it, why the fuck would she hide it? She's not the type of person to hide it, which I do agree with. There's no way he's stupid enough to leave his own watch. On top of that, use our knives. He's

20:38a very smart and calculated person. He knows what he's doing. He's not stupid enough. I mean, maybe on drastic circumstances, he was very, very impulsive. He really felt like killing someone. You know, he had no other weapons. He could have just gone into her house and stole one of her knives. Like why, is he faking his empathy for us? Does he not actually care about any of us? Is that the reality we're facing here? Is the reality that I'm facing here is that my loving brother for my whole life, my brother that I've cared for and cared for me and my mom has cared for and spent and dedicated her life to helping this person live and then he asks if his brother is going to jail and what the chances are that he won't and he puts his head down and he cries there's no way it's not possible there has to be someone who bloodied the evidence there has to be some misunderstanding. And he keeps asking, are you being 100% with me? This is true. This is true. This is true. They tell him that his brother's DNA was at the scene and his head falls onto the table. When Levi is confronted with the fact that his watch and DNA were found in Denise's home, they try to tell him, you just seem like a kind of just a young man. I mean, I'm a young boy. I'm barely a teenager. I know. And sometimes young boys make mistakes. So they're trying to get him to confess. And there's just a lot of odd moments

21:56throughout his interviews. Like when they ask why he went to stay at his dad's house, he says that it was triggering. And then there's moments where he like okay back and forth this whole interview is like an hour and a half well the whole body cam footage is like two hours long right but it's this weird back and forth of him trying to appear dumber than he is or at least that's what my take of it and then him appearing way smarter than he is or trying to appear smart it's like this weird back and forth so he talks about how he was doing his math homework at his dad's house right what? What kind of math? I don't know how to describe it. It's like trying to measure things, like how long this would be, you know, geometry. I guess so, yeah. He like weirdly doesn't know the name of basic things, okay? But he also says that he doesn't know if he went to the hospital to get the stitches. He just knows somewhere where there's doctors okay and then he says and then she was telling me that we're going to urgent care and i was like so this is that urgent i can tell it feels like he mentioned he doesn't know where he's going somewhere with doctors like trying to appear dumb and then he mentions that his mom said we're going to urgent care and then he is like oh so i was like oh this is urgent it's just weird i can't tell if he's trying to cover up for the fact that he just said he didn't know where they went but then said urgent care if he really doesn't know what urgent care is it feels more like the former he reiterates again like i

23:13didn't know this thing was that urgent it's like a weird thing to say it's just a lot to cover up for the fact that i feel like he knew it was urgent care but that's just my feeling right but then later he will talk about how he slipped in the shower again. And he says, yeah, I slipped and I hit like the shower sprayer, right? So it's like naming things differently. Yes. But then when the investigators look a little skeptical, he'll expand on that and he'll say, I guess let me articulate it better. I was holding the shower sprayer, I guess, whatever it's called. Like I usually do because I was only holding it. I slipped and I felt like this and I guess I hit it and I guess it hit the wall. He does start like cracking his knuckles immediately after. And then he further explains like, I don't know how to make it make sense. But yeah, that's what happens when I fell. And well, because I'm disabled, I was more likely to fall. I don't know if you're aware of that. I've told you I'm aware of your illness. It's not an illness. It's a disability. Disability, right? That's fair. It's so interesting. And then he goes back and forth between, again, trying to appear dumb and then trying to appear smart. For example, like I I said he doesn't know geometry he doesn't know urgent care but then suddenly when he's asked about why his blood is at Denise's house he starts saying I don't know what explanation

24:33I could give you or even come up with that would be equivalent to how that would happen well I guess it would make sense if there was like a blood transfusion but that wouldn't make any sense because I haven't had any blood transfusions and maybe I'm just reeling from the literacy crisis but like how do you not know the word geometry when you're taking a geometry course for school but you know what a blood transfusion is and like technically I mean I guess it could maybe apply technically in this case if he were to donate blood and Denise had gotten a blood transfusion and coincidentally happened to be from the kid across the street, Levi's blood. But standard transfusions are packed with red blood cells, which don't actually contain DNA. So like this is like random food for thought. OK, really? Yeah. So standard blood transfusions are mainly red blood cells. They don't contain the DNA. But if some donor white cells slip in, it's super small in a quantity. So like when you spill blood or like blood drips out of you and the DNA is collected, there's going to be such few white donor blood cells that it's highly unlikely that anybody else's DNA is going to come up even if you've had a blood transfusion recently. And white blood cells are typically cleared by the body's immune system within days to weeks. So it's a very short window. Now, there are certain people who get white blood cell transfers,

25:50but those are really rare and like just really rare. The only other time that this could maybe happen where Levi's DNA would be there, even though he had no blood transfusion, but let's say he did, is if Denise had a lot of blood transferred into her system right maybe then donor DNA could be detectable in the recipient but again if you had that much blood like that massive of a transfusion you're talking like major trauma surgery you're going to be in the hospital for days until that clears and that DNA is no anyway no it doesn't apply but the fact that he doesn't know geometry but he's wondering about blood transfusions is kind of odd to me also there i think you could maybe find donor dna in like a bone marrow stem cell transplant what are we doing here like that's not the point the point is why are we taking a journey down the lane of hypotheticals when you don't know what geometry is it's also very odd that he acts like he's too young and uninformed that he doesn't know geometry But he offers up all of these other explanations and the officer straight up tells him well, it's not a blood transfusion He says I think you know, I don't think I know could you not remember? I mean everybody doesn't remember things I know I mean, I barely remember my childhood. Well, that's that's what i'm asking you Could you have done something and not remember? I think everyone can. Like something that would happen a couple of weeks

27:08ago? Possible? Maybe possible. Anything's possible. I just need to explain it, you know? And so the investigator is like, I just need some answers. And he says, well, thank you for explaining it to me. I'm trying to give you the best explanation that I can and come up with ways how we can figure this out. I don't understand it just as much as, well, you probably understand it more than me. Then he offers up the solution of, well, if it's not from a blood transfusion, then could it be from, quote, I just mean like, did somebody put my blood in that house for some reason? Oh, I don't know. Will you tell me, would they? I didn't put your blood in there. I mean, I'm only 13. I don't know why anybody would put my blood in a house. Do you have any more questions for me or like well i want i want to get past this and we're not getting past it you don't know i don't know so we're just not resolving anything well i'm not sure if we can resolve it if i don't know and you don't know this is like a lot i don't ever recall being able to speak like this when i was 13 like hunter in the idea that i can see where a lot of his over explaining comes from because he just seems really nervous and then he watched too many body cam videos whereas levi it's very like yeah he also over and under explains like he'll over explain about the cat scratching him but then when he's asked where he hit his head in the shower he just like palms his face and says like around here just like a big surface

28:26area then he's asked if he knows Denise well which is a simple either yes or no or maybe even not really kind of question maybe like one sentence of context but he goes to explain in depth I just know she's our neighbor we waved a couple of times I thought she had a dog but I guess when the two special agents came over they told us the dog had died like six months ago I didn't really know her that well I thought that she I don't know I just thought that she had a job I didn't think I just mean I didn't know her a lot I just thought this is this person yeah and then he has like moments where he it's almost like a contrarian is trying to slip out of him which like if you've ever had interactions with someone who must disagree with absolutely everything you say it's incredibly frustrating and they cannot help it i guess even in police interviews so one detective who has been largely quiet throughout the entire interview turns to levi and says listen i wholeheartedly believe that there are two types of people in this world you've got monsters you've got people who make mistakes i think i disagree with that personally what do you disagree with about that statement i just think that there's a lot of different types of people in the world there's not monsters and people who commit mistakes the officer says well i'm just simplifying it for the context of this murder there's only two types of people that would commit a murder you know monsters and people who make mistakes and

29:42levi responds well if it's murder then it would be a monster right not necessarily you don't think no no I think murders can happen many different ways well I think if it's murder it would either be self-defense or manslaughter or something like that again you don't know geometry but you know manslaughter he even sits like a contrarian like he's more intrigued at the idea of like a moral dilemma and a debate than he is like getting away with something the investigator is saying that's why i'm trying to find an explanation i can't put words in your mouth levi responds i can't put words in my mouth either i mean i can so weird later levi brings up again that maybe there were three people in Denise's house instead of two and the investigator asks him was it I don't know I've already told you that I'm just saying possibilities possibilities or possibilities nothing's impossible as I've repeated multiple times and it's interesting at the very end Levi almost tries to bring his brother down with him or at least that's how I get a read of his intention because he says I don't know why I would lie I don't know why I would be outside after dark I don't know why I would even do something like this he says I just know I don't see a scenario where me alone or me myself would ever do that which is like really weird he's saying I would never do

31:03this but also if I did I would never do it alone which i have a theory and this is just a theory and speculation that if like i know that both of them were into true crime but that's i mean i do think that a lot of people watch true crime documentaries but it seems that levi's interest was a lot more in depth i think the way that hunter was into it he's like watching body cam footage on youtube probably and he's just like oh that's interesting oh look at how this person reacts but the fact that he levi is looking up all of these um the psychology of killers it seems a little bit darker it seems a little bit more in depth his curiosity and i wouldn't be surprised if he did come across cases where identical twin dna did set killers free because it has happened before. There have actually been multiple cases where there was like a serial essayer and the two twins were brought in and they wouldn't turn each other in. The investigators had hoped that at least one of them would say, oh, well, you know what? I don't want my brother to go down for it. It was me, but they didn't. They even put them in the same room together to see if they would talk about it, but they just made small talk. And then they were they were freed yeah i think that case is gonna go to trial i think they're trying to use the novel dna of the sequencing or like the genome like full so it's it's interesting that yeah it's just like very i wouldn't be surprised if he heard of cases like that and thought that if he kept

32:26bringing up his brother it would end up a situation where nobody would go to jail the investigator asks how about you with somebody else if i was could you have been present when something happened maybe again i just i always say anything is. Could you have been at the wrong place at the wrong time Sunday morning in February? I don't think so. Again, I don't see how that correlates. I just mean I don't see how I would do that and I don't see why I would do that. That's all I mean. Could you have been there with somebody else? I don't think so. Well, see, I don't think so really bothers me. Could you have been there with somebody else? No, I guess. See, I don't like the I guess. You either were there or you weren't. But we know that you were there. Well, I mean, you can, I don't know, you can think about my full sentence and say, or, you know, my full wording and say, he said no. I'm just saying I guess as that is what I think. I don't have a definitive answer for me to give. And that's why I'm saying I guess or I'm not, I don't know. But I'm not sure it's possible because I don't have a definitive answer for me to give and that's why I'm saying I guess or I'm not I don't know but I'm not sure it's possible because I don't have a definitive answer. If I'm going to say no then in my mind I'm going to say no I guess because I don't have an answer. I don't have a real answer. The investigator straight up tells him I think you created this version of events and you want it so badly to be the truth but it's not the truth.

33:41I don't think I would want it to be the truth if I wasn't telling you that it was the truth like why would I tell a story if I wanted it to be true I've never done that your version's not the truth well if that's what you think that's what you think I've explained to you everything I know in my version of events that I know is correct or that is in my memory I don't know why you would think I'm lying or why you don't believe me. I mean my brother's pretty chatty. Pretty what? Chatty? Was your brother with you during that night that you got cut? No. Eventually they don't get a confession but November 10th of 2025 Levi Cart pleads guilty to aggravated murder, aggravated burglary, and strangulation. He receives the maximum sentence allowed under juvenile law. He will remain in the juvenile detention facility until he turns 21. He is expected to be released in 2033. Wow. Yeah. One neighbor told the police during the investigation that whoever did this to Denise needs to receive capital punishment because, quote, you know if he gets out he's going to do it again you can't cure that other netizens have kind of sounded off online saying like that's actually a really dangerous age to release somebody and I do think I mean watching his

34:58interrogation video it seems like if he's that equipped at responding to the police the way he did at 13, I can't imagine how much more fine-tuned that's going to get in a cutthroat environment such as a juvenile detention center. I imagine your capacity to learn how to adjust and survive in situations like that will make you only that much more cunning and evasive. So what are your thoughts? I mean, it was such a strange case to see i think it's interesting that the investigators handled the case the way that they did i almost suspect that maybe they pled guilty because i don't know i just feel like the investigators really shot their own foot with this investigation i think had it gone to trial i think the defense would have had a good time finding a lot of legal murkiness with the way that the investigators approached all of this. And I think maybe that is what resulted in this plea deal. But that's just my speculation. What are your thoughts? Let me know in the comments. And I will see you in the next one. Be safe.