Will ruthenium replace copper in chip wiring, according to Intel's Jack Kavalieros?

Jack Kavalieros of Intel's research lab says ruthenium can win over copper for the very finest wires. Copper needs a resistive liner to stick, while ruthenium can be etched directly and needs no liner, so at around a 20 nanometer pitch ruthenium's effective resistance becomes lower. He notes that Intel once chose cobalt, has since returned to copper, and may move to ruthenium later.

• Chris Auth separately says copper will remain the best choice for larger wires but will likely be replaced at the tightest pitches.

Source: our own transcription of the episode. The full conversation is on Dwarkesh Podcast (2026-10-22). Read the whole episode summary →

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