Dateline NBC · · Transcript & summary by WhipScribe
One episode brings a courtroom account of the Millete sentencing, an Ohio murder verdict and a veteran marshal's view of how escaped prisoners get caught.
Tap a chapter to open that moment in the transcript; the link to it is copied for you.
“There was not one available seat in that courtroom.” Andrea Canning · at 6:12 — open in the transcript →
“You can run, but you can't hide. And when you run, you only go to jail tired.” Lenny DePaul · at 37:23 — open in the transcript →
This Dateline True Crime Weekly episode, hosted by Blayne Alexander, centres on the sentencing of Larry Millete, the former Navy optician a California jury convicted in July of murdering his wife Maya, who vanished from their Chula Vista home in January 2021. Correspondent Andrea Canning, who was in court, recaps a prosecution case built on an affair, a planned divorce and spells bought from an online spellcaster, and a defense built on reasonable doubt because no body was ever recovered. The hearing brought statements from Maya's siblings, niece and two daughters, a medical emergency involving Larry's father, and a sentence of effectively 27 years to life.
The second case is an Ohio double murder. Producer Rachel White explains how restaurant owners Tom and Angela were found shot inside their burning Belmont home in 2021, and how prosecutors tied their business partner Andrew Isaac Griffin to the killings through a failed $100,000 investment, a burner phone, plate-reader images of a motorcycle and testimony from a childhood friend with an immunity deal. The defense attacked those witnesses and the lack of physical evidence, and the jury still returned a guilty verdict.
A roundup with producer Marissa Meyer covers Lori Vallow Daybell's appeal before the Idaho Supreme Court, a new affidavit in the Michelle Parker case and retrial scheduling for Lindsay Clancy. Retired U.S. Marshal Lenny DePaul then explains how fugitive manhunts work, prompted by a Tennessee prison escape that ended after nine days.
Dateline's Andrea Canning reports that the judge in Chula Vista, California sentenced Larry Millete to 25 years to life for first-degree murder, plus two years for a gun charge he pleaded guilty to after trial, effectively 27 years to life. The judge described the plan as cold and calculated, said Millete had kept a posture of denial and defiance, and imposed a 10-year protective order limiting his contact with his children.
According to Andrea Canning on Dateline, prosecutors called an online spellcaster who testified that Larry Millete bought spells from him. The requests began with keeping Maya from leaving him and making her fall in love with him again, then grew more intense, including one asking for Maya to suffer an accident and a broken bone. Prosecutors used this to argue Millete would go to any length to control his wife, who was planning to divorce him.
Andrea Canning describes a packed courtroom where Maya Millete's family, dressed in green, gave statement after statement asking Larry Millete to reveal where her body is. Two of the couple's daughters spoke, both describing love for both parents. Larry's mother defended him, and his father was taken out on a gurney after microphone interference appeared to affect his pacemaker. When Larry later addressed Maya's family directly, her niece shouted at him and was led out by bailiffs.
Dateline producer Rachel White explains that prosecutors say Andrew Isaac Griffin invested more than $100,000 in the couple's restaurant, Salsa Joe's, from January 2021, then was told in August 2021 the business was closing and was locked out of the shared bank account. Investigators linked a burner phone tied to Griffin to towers near the couple's home on the day of the September 2021 killings, and plate readers captured a motorcycle Griffin had paid for heading toward Ohio.
Griffin's childhood best friend testified under an immunity deal that he helped plan the killings, suggesting a motorcycle and a rain suit to avoid leaving DNA. The defense told jurors the friend could not be believed because he has since been sentenced to three life terms for sexually abusing a child. It argued every prosecution witness was unreliable, that no physical evidence linked Griffin to the scene, and that Tom carried large amounts of cash and kept shady company. The jury convicted Griffin on all counts after about four hours.
Retired U.S. Marshal Lenny DePaul tells Dateline that an escape case triggers an all-hands response using aircraft, drones, bloodhounds and thermal imaging, alongside a background investigation into who the inmate called, who visited and what websites he used. Old-fashioned door knocking still matters, including talking to the fugitive's mother, as do digital footprints, cellular intercepts and license plate readers. His advice to the public is to stay away from a fugitive and call 911.
Our own transcript of the public episode, with a timestamp about every 90 seconds. Tap a timestamp or the link button on a paragraph to copy a link that opens this page there.
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0:49Yep, even on weekends. That's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash BankGuy. Capital One N.A. member FDIC. We are rolling on the trial right now. It's the start of another workday for the Dateline team. The next morning, she doesn't show up. Our producers are swapping tips and story ideas. He did not say that to police. He only said it to his family. Both said, you know, we just don't want to mess this up. Still like a lot of questions. Welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly. I'm Blayne Alexander, in for Andrea Canning. It's November 5th, and here's what's on our docket. In Ohio, five years after a married couple were found shot to death inside their burning home,
1:41their business partner is on trial for their murder. His defense attorney says the prosecution's case is based on nothing but lies and innuendo. They're alleging that all the prosecution witnesses are unreliable and raising questions about why they have said what they said. In Dateline Roundup, we've got news about Lori Vallow Daybell, a.k.a. Mommy Doomsday, and new details about the investigation into the Florida man accused of murdering his ex-fiance back in 2011, hours after they appeared together on an episode of The People's Court. There's cursing, there's name-calling, really hostile conversations. Plus, a convicted killer escaped from a Tennessee prison last month, sparking a multi-state manhunt.
2:21We're talking to a former U.S. marshal about what it takes to track down a fugitive. You can run, but you can't hide. And when you run, you only go to jail tired. But before all of that, we are off to Southern California for the dramatic final chapter in a case we've been following all year. It's one that involves murder, heartbreak, and spellcasters. Back in July, former Navy optician Larry Miliete was convicted of killing his wife, Maya, and hiding her body. But even after the verdict, there have been plenty of questions. Maya's body has never been found, and the years that have passed since her 2021 disappearance have worn on her friends and her family, who have been desperate for answers
3:05and for closure. On Monday afternoon, they gathered in a Chula Vista courtroom for Larry's sentencing, which was at times very emotional. Tell us where my sister is and help bring her home. The court also heard directly from Larry Miliate himself. She wasn't just my wife, she was my best friend. heard directly from Larry Miliate himself. Here to fill us in on all of this is my friend and fellow Dateline correspondent, Andrea Canning, who was in the courtroom for that hearing. Andrea, you have been covering this case for quite some time now. I mean, right now you're actually sitting outside of jail waiting to go inside and talk to Larry, right? Yeah, we're at the Vista Detention Center in California here. You know, we have a lot of
3:45tough questions for him. There is a lot to talk about. And I know that you will certainly be the one to press him on that. I mean, just take us back real quickly. Remind us how all of this started. Yeah, so Blaine, this all started in January of 2021. 39-year-old Maya Miliete, she vanished from her home in Chula Vista that she shared with her husband, Larry, and their three children. She got out of her car. She'd come home from work. She walked into the house. But she is never actually seen leaving the house, and her body has never been found. Larry Miliete was arrested and charged with Maya's murder nine months later. He pleaded not guilty, finally went to trial earlier this year. That's more than five years after Maya's disappearance. Andrea, just remind us what prosecutors said at the trial. that she was planning to divorce Larry imminently. We learned from various witnesses that Maya had
4:46been having an affair with her married coworker, which obviously none of this sat well with Larry Miliote. You know, the prosecution argued that he was willing to go to any means to control Maya, to stop her from leaving him, even hexes. What was that about? Yeah. So, Blaine, our listeners will probably remember this case because of that one fact in particular. The prosecution called an online spellcaster as one of their witnesses. He testified that Larry was purchasing these spells. And the requests from Larry ranged from trying to get Maya to not leave him, to her falling in love with him again. But then they got more intense. One request even asking for Maya to suffer leave him, to her falling in love with him again. But then they got more intense.
5:26One request even asking for Maya to suffer from an accident and to have a broken bone. Does the prosecution have a theory about how Larry killed her? So they suggested that Larry had shown an interest in hemlock, which is a poisonous plant. But Blaine, the reality of all of this, because Maya's body has never been found, they cannot say for sure how she died. Wow. And I would imagine that that's something that Larry Miliate's defense really leaned into. Yeah, the defense was entirely about reasonable doubt. Eventually, Andrea, after all of this, in July, the jury had a verdict and Larry Miliate was found guilty of first-degree murder. That brings us to the sentencing on Monday. You were there.
6:08You were inside the courtroom. What was it like covering the final chapter in all of this? There was not one available seat in that courtroom. It was packed. Family everywhere. Maya's family all wearing green, ready to speak their piece, to say how this has affected them. But we also saw Larry's supporters there as well, his mom and dad. This was a long, long time coming for both sides. And I know that in Monday's sentencing, you really got a strong sense of who Maya was. Can you just tell us about some of those statements from her family and friends? Blaine, one thing was clear. Maya was loved. It was impact statement after impact statement about how much she is missed, how much they love her, what a strong presence
6:51she was in their lives. We heard from Maya's siblings. She was one of six children, obviously all very close. Also, her extended family and her niece especially talked about how they feel her absence all the time. Auntie Maya's laughter is no longer heard at family parties. Her smiling face is absent from my family photos. And we no longer hear her sing Hopelessly Devoted to You by Olivia Newton-John during karaoke. And it's a constant reminder that our family will never be whole and quite the same way again. We also got a sense of just kind of what Larry and Maya's relationship was like leading up to her murder. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like it was this started off really sweet. They were very young when they got married.
7:37But we got this sense from her sisters that Larry's behavior just started to become controlling. You were her love of her life, in sickness and in health. But that doesn't mean you have to take her life to say, till death do us part. Everything went crashing down because of your obsessive, controlling, paranoid, increasingly abusive behavior. And then, Andrea, I know a lingering question on everyone's minds. Where is Maya? Of course, her body has never been found. That was literally in every statement from the family members. It is not too late to do what is right. You can still tell us where Maya is. Larry, knowing that you hold the answer, is a cruelty beyond measure. It's such an unspeakable pain on top of an already horrifically painful situation to just not know.
8:31And then in the midst of all of that, Andrea, we got the most heart-wrenching part of this entire thing, which was hearing directly from Maya's own children. Yeah. And that was really hard to hear, Blaine. The two daughters made a statement. You know, her son is young. He did not. So the prosecution, they played a video of Maya and her son playing the guitar and singing together. At that point, Larry seemed to show maybe his first sign of emotion. He was possibly tearing up. It certainly wasn't, you know, sobbing or anything like that. Wow. You know, we heard from the couple's middle child, and she talked about how good of a mother Maya was. But she also talked about how great of a father Larry was.
9:24He was awesome to me and my siblings. Regardless of anything, he was a person I would never regret having in my life. And I know that hearing from their eldest daughter, I mean, she spoke last and really seemed to kind of talk about how difficult of a position they're in. Yeah, this was a profound statement. I've heard children testify before. Never has a child, for me, dissected so much what it's actually like to be the child. While I feel the complicated pain of knowing, as a person, what he did was unimaginable, and as a human being, unforgivable. As his daughter, I cannot stop loving him, for he's the only parent that we have left. It's too much to ask of me to pick sides when I have so much love in my heart for both of them.
10:10Oh, that sounds so incredibly powerful. We heard so many people speaking on Maya's behalf, but the defense, Larry Miliente, also had people speaking on his behalf. And that's when, I mean, things took a pretty big kind of turn. Walk me through some of those statements. Yeah. So first his mom came up. She defended him. I am not ashamed of you. I am proud of you because I know that you did not hurt anybody. And then Larry's dad came on. He echoed the same sentiments. But then it took a turn. There was a medical emergency. There was apparently static from the microphone that was messing with Larry's father's pacemaker. So it appeared to keep zapping him. And he was saying, it's shocking me. You know, it's shocking me. And then finally, after several times of this happening, he said, I need medical.
11:05I need medical. I need medical. They end up taking him out on a gurney to an ambulance. And I mean, I believe he's OK at this point. Wow. Yes. It was crazy. So then after all of that subsides, Larry Milioti, what did he have to say? Yes. He talked about Maya, how much he loved and missed her, how much he wished he could have protected her. I know I wasn't the best, greatest husband, but I would loved and missed her, how much he wished he could have protected her. And I know, Andrea, that he also spoke directly to Maya's family. How did that go? That didn't go well. So Larry had actually finished and they had gone on to some procedural things. Suddenly there's a message from the defense attorney.
11:46Larry has more to say. He starts saying he hopes to make amends with the family, with Maya's family. He's like, I love you, naming names. I love you, I love you, I love you. I'm not sorry to leave, but you know I really love your sister. And I miss her every day. I could feel the tensions rising as he was saying these things. You could just feel it. So what happened was Maya's niece starts screaming. This is a boiling point for her. Where's Maya? Why did you do that? She's so upset. No one can blame her for being upset. The bailiffs came over and they, you know, they got her to leave. And, you know, your heart just went out to her. Oh, I mean, all of it sounds so intense, so incredibly difficult for Maya's family.
12:38I know, Andrea, that after that, it was up to the judge. What did the judge have to say? Yeah, well, he noted just how stone-faced Larry had been. The Rockets Court does not demonstrate humility or acceptance of responsibility. He has maintained a posture of denial and defiance. He actually called him vicious. He said that this plan was cold and calculated. He threw the book at him. Larry was sentenced to 25 years to life in prison for the murder, and then an additional two years for a gun charge Larry pleaded guilty to after trial, effectively 27 to life. The judge also instituted a 10-year protective order restricting Larry's contact with his children. Once each child turns 18, they can petition to have the order
13:22lifted, but it appears, though, that the children would like to have some kind of contact with their father. So we'll see what happens with that. Wow. Okay. And I mean, the big question again in all of this is where is Maya? I mean, is that search for her body still going on, Andrea? Yeah. I attended a press conference after the sentencing and the DA and the police chief talked about, again, we don't know where she is. We need to find out where she is. They urged family members of his, anyone who might know, to come forward. The DA said, we have our speculation. I said, well, that was the one question I asked. Well, what is your speculation? And she would not go into details about that. Gosh.
14:01Well, Andrea, I mean, this was just a gripping account from the courtroom. Thank you so much for bringing it to us. Yes. And I'm about to interview Larry Miliete in jail. So we will have that full interview on the Dateline that we are putting together for the future. That is going to be a must watch. Good luck with the interview. Thanks, Blaine. Coming up, a man accused of murdering his business partners comes face-to-face with the prosecution's star witness, his best friend. The Mighty Dollar. Once had a whole menu named after it. No more. But $1 a day lets you add progressive renter's insurance to your auto insurance. Something your younger self would roll their eyes at, but your current adulting self appreciates.
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16:32Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click Grainger.com, or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. On September 21st, 2021, firefighters in Belmont, Ohio responded to reports of a house fire at the home of Tom and Angela Strushen, the owners of a local Tex-Mex restaurant, Salsa Joe's. When they got there, they found Angela and Tom already dead, but not from the fire. They'd been shot to death before it was even set. After a years-long investigation, prosecutors charged the Streshens' business partner, Andrew Isaac Griffin, with the grisly double murder. This month, he stood trial. Prosecutors told the jury that Griffin, who pleaded not guilty, had orchestrated an elaborate multi-state murder plot as an act of vengeance for a business
17:26deal gone bad. The defense called the investigation sloppy and said the prosecution's star witness was quote, the lowest scumbag on earth. On Wednesday, jurors returned their verdict. Here now to help us get up to speed on all of this, including what the jury decided, is Dateline producer Rachel White. Rachel, I know you've been following this case all along, so thank you so much for being here. Excited to be here. Rachel, let's start by talking about the Streshens, Tom and Angela. Just help us get a sense of who they were. Sure. So Angela and Tom met on a dating app when they were both living in Texas, and they got married about 10 years ago. The couple then moved to Ohio, where Tom was from, and they opened up Salsa Joe's restaurant.
18:11You know, we talked about the discovery of their bodies so many times in Dateline cases we see where someone has set fire to the house in hopes of covering up evidence or covering up a murder. Let's talk about what investigators found that day. Yeah. So the fire destroyed a lot, and so did the water from the firefighters trying to extinguish the fire. So we saw during the trial a prosecution expert who testified that she was not able to isolate any DNA or fingerprints from the crime scene. So essentially investigators were right back to square one. When did they first start looking at Griffin? I would imagine that as a business partner of Tom and Angela's, he must have come under scrutiny pretty early on in this investigation, right?
18:57So investigators definitely checked him out, but he seemed like he had a good alibi. He told investigators that he was back in Oklahoma at the time of the murders, and when they looked at his cell phone records, it seemed to corroborate his story. So he was kind of set aside at that point, but that all changed in the spring of 2023. And what happened then? So the chief detective decided to reach back out to Andrew Griffin, and he did not receive a response. But he did hear from Tom's sister, Lisa Balog, who told him that Griffin was missing. Oh, missing, wow. Lisa tells investigators that Griffin had driven his truck across the border into Mexico and disappeared. Well, that certainly calls for suspicion there for investigators. Now, Griffin ended up moving around after that,
19:43and eventually he was arrested in Hawaii. But Rachel, let's talk about what exactly led up to that arrest, right? Investigators did do a bit more digging into Griffin's financial relationship with the Streshens. What did they uncover there? They figured out that Griffin had invested more than $100,000 in the business starting back in January 2021. But by August 2021, without any warning, prosecutors say Tom Strushen told Griffin that he was done with the business because it just wasn't profitable. And they said that there was no talk of Griffin getting his money back, that investment that he'd made in the business. And they also said that Griffin found out a day after Tom told him that the business was closing, he'd been locked out of his shared bank account where he'd been investing all that money.
20:28So, Rachel, just hearing you lay out what investigators say they found, I mean, one could certainly see why that could be a reason for anger. So what did investigators do next? So after that, they basically reach out to Griffin's estranged wife. Her name is Stacy, and she mentions that Griffin's best friend was a man named Brett Kuhl. So investigators decided to give him a closer look. They subpoena Brett Kuhl's phone, and they notice that on the day of the murders, he received a call from a number that didn't match any of the numbers that he typically got calls and texts from, so it stood out to them. And when they traced that number, prosecutors say that they discovered that that number traced back to a burner phone
21:09connected to Andrew Griffin. So where was that burner phone, Rachel, on the day of the murders? Could investigators kind of pin down the location of that phone? Yeah, so they say it was in Ohio, pinging off the cell towers close to the Streshins' home. And investigators had a theory about how Griffin could have traveled from Oklahoma to Ohio to commit the murders. They say that they discovered Griffin had given Cole some money to go pick up a motorcycle for him a few weeks before the murders. And highway plate reader cameras captured that motorcycle heading toward Ohio right before the murders took place. Break that down for me, though, because even if jurors believe that Griffin was riding that motorcycle,
21:50it doesn't automatically prove that he then went to the Streshins' home and killed them. So how did they make that connection? So prosecutors told the jury that they had two witnesses who could kind of tie all these things together, starting with Brett Kuh Cole's grandfather, Arthur. And this was a little bit unusual because the jury didn't get to see Arthur in person. He's elderly. He's in poor health. And so prosecutors taped a video deposition with him back in summer 2025 ahead of the trial. And he told them that he overheard Griffin making a call to Brett Cole admitting to the murders. Andrew said, well, I had to go get my money and I killed two people. Wow, that's big. Who were some of the other big witnesses during trial?
22:38They had Brett Cole himself as well, who, as I said, was Griffin's best friend since childhood, his alleged co-conspirator in the murder plot, he testified subject to an immunity deal. And he laid out all the details of the alleged plan. He basically said that he was the one who suggested Griffin travel via motorcycle to go carry out the murders. And he said he suggested Griffin wear a frog tog, which is a type of rain suit, so no DNA or blood spatter would be able to get on him as he committed the murder. Oh, wow. And I also understand that he testified that their plan was to focus only on Tom Strushen, right? That it was never to target Angela as part of any of this. Yeah, that's right. He described what Griffin told him
23:22happened when he entered the Strreshin house that day. He said when he shot Tom, Angela had jumped up and ran towards him. And he then shot her multiple times. He said then, after he shot Angela, he went back to asking Tom where the money's at. And Tom says there ain't no money. And then he shoots Tom and kills him. I have to say that testimony is pretty specific. I mean, to a jury, that could be very believable. Right. But Brett Cole is someone the defense has told the jury from day one that they can't believe. Why? Because he's a convicted felon. Since the murders, Brett Cole has been sentenced to serve three life sentences for sexually abusing a child. Oh, good grief. I mean, we're not talking about just
24:09writing back checks or any other crime here. But if you take him out of the picture, how much is left of the prosecution's case? I mean, Blaine, that's basically the theme of the entire defense here. They're alleging that all the prosecution witnesses are unreliable and raising questions about why they have said what they said. Now, there is the evidence of the burner phone and the motorcycle. Where do we stand with that? So the defense says essentially none of that proves that Griffin committed the murders beyond a reasonable doubt. They're really hammering home that there's no physical evidence linking Griffin to the Seam. And, you know, this is a circumstantial case. There's zero proof of who committed these two murders, who set this house on fire.
24:56I mean, I'm curious, the defense is kind of knocking down these things, but has the defense presented any theory of its own about what they believe happened? So the defense has suggested that Tom had been hanging out with some shady people before his death. And pretty much everybody who knew him does say that he did always carry a lot of cash on him, that he wasn't shy about, you know, showing it off. So I think they just really attempted to plant these seeds of doubt that Andrew Griffin was the only person that would have some motive to kill Tom Strushen. So thanks so much for being with us here today, Rachel. Thank you for having me. After taping our segment, jury deliberations got underway,
25:38and after about four hours, they returned a verdict. We, the jury, being duly and paneled and sworn, find the defendant guilty. Guilty on all counts. Griffin's sentencing is scheduled for December 1st, and we'll bring you that update in a few weeks. Up next, it's time for Dateline Roundup. We've got news about Lori Vallow Daybell. Also, a recently unsealed arrest affidavit sheds light on prosecutors' decision to charge a Florida man with the murder of his ex-fiance 15 years after she disappeared. Plus, a former U.S. marshal takes us behind the scenes on how to catch a fugitive. They say higher education is outdated, irrelevant. But at Grand Canyon University, they don't settle for the status quo.
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28:32Thank you so much for having me, Blaine. So for our first story, we are heading to Idaho, where we have an update for you on Lori Vallow Daybell, aka Mommy Doomsday. On Monday, her defense team was in court in front of a panel of Idaho Supreme Court justices arguing that she should get a new trial for her convictions in Idaho. Yes. So just a quick reminder, back in 2023, she was sentenced to life in prison for the murders of her two children, JJ and Tylee, and for her involvement in the death of Tammy Daybell, who was her husband Chad's wife. Chad was convicted of killing those three victims and is on death row in Idaho. So what was Mondays hearing about? On Monday, her attorneys in Idaho argued that her trial judge made a fundamental error before her trial. In the early
29:26stages of the case, Lori was represented by a lawyer named Mark Means, and that lawyer had also represented Lori's husband, Chad. So in December of 2021, the trial judge removed Mark Means from Lori's case, saying his representation could be a conflict of interest. Lori did not get a say in that decision. At the time, she was classified as mentally incompetent to participate in the proceedings. Lori's attorneys argued that the judge's actions violated Lori's constitutional right to choose her own lawyer. It was an abuse of discretion. We asked this court to reverse. How did the state respond to all of this, Marissa? So the attorney for the state argued that the judge's decision to remove Lori's attorney was in her best interest as someone who couldn't
30:17make the choice to remove him herself. So I know that this hearing lasted over an hour. The justices were asking questions. Could you get any sort of sense which way this might go? Not really. The justices had tough questions for both sides. You know, one justice kept calling what the judge had done unorthodox. Another justice asked whether it could mean the death penalty was back on the table for her. All of this is just so interesting, Marissa. The justices now will take their time to issue a ruling. And of course, we will report back once they have made that ruling. Next up, we are heading down to Orlando, Florida, where we're learning more about what led up to the arrest of Dale Smith Jr. a few weeks ago for the alleged murder of his ex-fiancee, Michelle Parker.
31:07She is the 33-year-old woman who went missing back in 2011, just hours after appearing with Dale on an episode of the TV show, The People's Court. Now, Dale has pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder, but the big question since his arrest has been, why investigators decided to make a move in this case all these years later. Why are we just now seeing an arrest, Marissa? Yeah, I mean, that has been the big question. But now we have gotten our hands on a 46-page affidavit, investigators were able to recover new data from Dale and Michelle's phones that they didn't have access to or wasn't readable back in 2011. And some of this evidence includes more precise location and user data, as well as some of the text messages between Michelle and Dale.
32:03Let's talk about some of those text messages between Dale and Michelle, right? They're included in the affidavit. And just reading through them, Marissa, it sounds like they had a somewhat tumultuous relationship. In these messages, there's cursing, there's name-calling, and it's just really hostile conversations. Investigators also argued in the affidavit that the more precise location data that they now have really suggests that Dale just didn't tell them the truth about Michelle's location at the time. Yeah. So in his initial story to police, according to this affidavit, Dale says that Michelle dropped off the kids at his home and left after 10 minutes. But investigators say that Michelle's phone shows her arriving in the area
32:4645 minutes before Dale said she did. And surveillance video shows her truck was at Dale's house for an hour, not just 10 minutes. There is a lot to watch in this case, and of course, we will keep our eye on it. And then finally, we've got an update in the case of Lindsay Clancy, a former labor and delivery nurse from Massachusetts who's been accused of killing her three children. At her trial earlier this year, she pleaded not guilty, saying that she was in the throes of postpartum psychosis when she killed her children. That trial ended in a mistrial. Clancy was back in court on Monday. Marissa, what happened there? Yeah. So Lindsay Clancy appeared in court for a motions hearing. There was lots of back and forth about issues that
33:32we've talked about before, including this defense request that the judge do more to investigate whether the holdout juror followed the law and deliberated in good faith. And the judge had something to say about that. But didn't I do that? Didn't I bring, didn't I do a voir dire? Didn't I bring the jurors in? Didn't I swear them in? There are so many aspects to this case that are just under an intense microscope. So what happens next? The judge has set a hearing for November 16th when we'll find out when any retrial might be. The judge said he is open to having a new trial start in March 2027. Gosh, a lot of updates on some very big stories this week. Marissa, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much, Blaine.
34:22On October 25th, 28-year-old Jacob Morley, a convicted killer serving a life sentence for murder in a Tennessee prison, made a daring escape. He cut through the prison fence, stole a pickup truck nearby, and went on the run. Officers from local, state, and federal agencies now scouring northwest Tennessee, setting up checkpoints and using a helicopter and search dogs in the hunt. On Tuesday morning, after a nine-day manhunt, Morley was captured in Missouri and was back behind bars. So for our final story this week, we wanted to find out more about what exactly happens when someone who is potentially dangerous goes on the run and how do investigators go about tracking them down? Here to bring us up to speed on all of that is retired U.S. Marshal Lenny DePaul.
35:10Lenny, you are certainly the expert in this subject, so I am so glad to have you with us on the podcast today. Welcome. Well, thank you, Blayne. Thanks for inviting me on. I want to first just kind of let some of our listeners know that you are very well-versed in tracking down some of the most dangerous fugitives in the country. I mean, names that we all have recognized, certainly D.C. sniper Lee Boyd Malveaux back in 2002, the Boston Marathon bomber Johar Sarnia back in 2013. I mean, your career has spanned decades. First, just tell me, when you think back on some of those high-profile cases, what sticks with you the most? As a former chief inspector with the U.S. Marshals and the former commander of the largest fugitive task force of its kind in the world in New York, we weren't
35:55going after, you know, turnstile jumpers and deadbeat dads. These were violent people. So when you target these people, I've seen it happen many different ways. I've gone after triple homicide suspects that have thrown their hands up and started crying and simple parole violators that sadly we've been in shootings with and whatnot. So you take them all very serious, especially escape cases. These people have elaborate escape plans. They get out there. They're sleeping with one eye open and it makes life pretty tough. But walk me through that, Lenny. Start from the moment that a manhunt is launched. What types of things just kind of tick through what you're looking at to even launch such a manhunt?
36:31You know, when you have an initial manhunt going on, you know, especially with an escape case, it's a full court press. I mean, it's all hands on deck. The assets that are available, aviation support, drones, canines, bloodhounds, thermal imaging, you name it, we have it. You also have a fugitive investigation going on behind the scenes. I mean, we're flipping, you know, that person's world upside down in an escape case, Department of Corrections. Who visited him recently? What kind of calls were made? Was he on the Internet? What kind of sites did he visit? Sometimes it's old-fashioned police work, hitting the bricks, knocking on doors, Q&Aing people. I used to love going to talk to mom because mom would be very important.
37:10We'd knock on the door and, you know, hey, mom, your son just escaped from this prison. You know, if you knew where he was, would you tell me? Digital footprints are important, cellular intercepts, things that we do with burner phones and whatnot. You know what I always say, Blaine? You can run, but you can't hide. And when you run, you only go to jail tired. That's, you know what, that is certainly a good message to put out there. Because I mean, I think at the end of the day, if you're escaping, if you're out there doing these things, you're going to go back to a harsher sentence than what you had before, right? And so let's talk about the case of Jacob Morley. I mean, when you hear that somebody
37:43like Jacob Morley allegedly stole a truck, that truck was abandoned two days later in Illinois, states away. I mean, does that tell us anything about what his plan possibly was? Well, how did he steal the truck? Somebody leave the keys, nailing in the ignition? I mean, I would have a lot of questions. You know, you hit the ground running. Set that perimeter up. You're stopping vehicles. You're looking at license plate readers. You're looking at everything. You know, surveillance cameras, CCTV. What was his description? What did the cameras pick up on this guy? Did somebody find him? I've been out on prison escapees in the woods with bloodhounds and they'll track the fugitive. And all of a sudden,
38:18we come to a road and they lose their scent. Well, what does that tell you? Somebody picked them up. Do you typically find that escapees have accomplices, somebody who's helping them on the outside? I've seen it all. Dana Moore, if you remember that case a few years back, the two that escaped up in upstate New York, it was Matt and Sweat was the other guy's last name. They groomed this woman on the inside. She was helping them, brought them tools to get out. They ended up getting out. They left little smiley face signs and whatnot. The problem is when they got up through the sewer cap, she wasn't there. She had a panic attack allegedly. So they had an elaborate escape plan, but they had no plan B.
38:53So when you talk about fugitives, Lenny, I mean, you're dealing sometimes with two different cases. There's somebody who's known, like this guy is, Jacob Morley, who you know who you're looking for, you know the details. But then you have fugitive hunts, like maybe the D.C. sniper sniper where you know there's somebody out here who's shooting people, but you don't know who it is. How do officials approach those two scenarios differently? Well, if somebody's identified and you've got a beat on these people, you have a pretty good idea what their background is. I mean, you live in these people's minds, right? I used to wake up in the morning, you know, 3 o'clock in the morning saying, ah, this is what this guy's up to. So, you know, you live your lives. When you're chasing a ghost and you have no idea who you're
39:28looking at, it's mind boggling because you don't know what you're up against. We'll take the DC snipers, for instance, Mohammed and Melvo. I mean, we knew what was going on, right? They're out there. They're covertly sniping people, but you know, it's going to be a matter of time before people that aren't identified, they come up on our radar somehow know, it's going to be a matter of time before people that aren't identified, they come up on our radar somehow, whether it's fingerprints or somebody identifies them. And now we're off to the races again. And Eleni, if you could, I want to just wrap up by asking you to speak directly to the public, because let's say, heaven forbid, someone's confronted by somebody like this. They try
39:59and steal a car. Like, what types of things should the public know to keep themselves safe if they ever find themselves in the path of a fugitive? Well, first of all, if they see somebody like this, just stay away. Grab your cell phone, make a phone call, just call 911 and stay away from these people. They're violent. Lenny DePaul, this was a fascinating conversation with some really, really good information. I appreciate your expertise on this. Thank you for joining us today. That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. But if you love Dateline podcasts, and we hope you do, check out Dateline Premium. It's a great way to get early access to all of our latest podcast series. You get to listen ad-free, and there's bonus content.
40:43Coming up this Friday on Dateline, Lester has an all-new two-hour episode that will keep you guessing up until the final minutes. It's about the murder of a woman in East Baltimore that sent investigators on a wild ride to find her killer. Every turn, every step, something new happened. Things are falling apart very quickly. He was asking to get a one-way trip to Cuba. We're about to lose him. Watch Deadly Intersection this Friday at 9, 8 central on Dateline on NBC. Thanks so much for listening. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Carson Cummins, Caroline Casey, and Keani Reid. Our associate producers are Ellery Gladstone-Groff and Aria Young. Our senior producer is Liz Brown-Kurloff. Production and fact-checking help by Carol Chin.
41:31Veronica Mazzica is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original music by Jesse McGinty. Paul Ryan is executive producer, and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline. Have a good day, everyone. Amazon Business offers smart purchasing experiences designed to meet your unique needs. Streamline your buying process, save time and money, and gain valuable insights to make smarter decisions. Empower your team to buy with confidence. Learn more at amazonbusiness.com.