#690 - Josh Brolin

0:00I want to say that my new special, I'm Doing Fine, is out October 20th on Netflix. So thank you guys so much for your support. And I really, I'm excited about it. And I hope that you'll give it a shot. And I also want to let you know that we've got a full restock on your favorite merch over at theovonstore.com. We loaded up on the Be Good to Yourself scribble tees and a new RatCon drop, so you can check that out. Again, it's TheoVonStore.com if there's something there that you choose to get. And yeah, just amen, man. Thank you, guys. He's a legendary actor known for movies like No Country for Old Men, Dune, Sicario. The list goes on. Goonies. His new film, Whalefall, is in theaters this week. A wonderful time catching up with

0:56the Cito rat himself, Mr. Josh Brolin. And I don't want to find out what's behind door number two with Mike Tyson. You know what I'm saying? You just, you take what he gives you. Totally. So. Hey man, thanks for having me on your show. Dude, thank you for being here, man. Seriously. It's what he gives you. Hey man, thanks for having me on your show. Dude, thank you for being here, man. Seriously. It's nice to see you. You too, bro. It's a pleasure, bro. And I don't know if I can say this and I can take this part out. It's nice to talk to another alcoholic. Totally. Is that okay to say? Yeah. I think everybody knows it by now. I don't know if everybody knows it with you. They definitely know it with me. I don't really talk about AA, but I talk about sobriety

1:48a lot. Okay. Yeah. And that, are you sure that's okay if I said that? Fuck yeah. Okay. Cause God do. Yes. Sometimes it's like, Hey, you see, if you see somebody else that's, you know, I don't know. It just feels like something's a little different. Yeah, there is. And you're out there now. You know, it's funny. I was thinking, I'll tell you the story really quick. Celsius, I guess, is your company or not your company, but you're sponsored by them or whatever. Liquid Death. Yeah. So Liquid Death, I have like a little tiny stake in or whatever. And the whole reason why Liquid Death did so well, because if you look at the cans, they look like 40s. Yeah. Right. And people are drinking less and less, like whether they're getting sober or not is kind of beside the point,

2:27but they're drinking, kids are drinking less and less. So they'd go to these concerts and they'd have these cans and the kids started drinking these cans that are full of water and it made them feel like they weren't ousted, that they weren't going to be judged because they weren't drinking because they had a can in their hand that looked like they were having a beer. Oh, yeah, you're still in the group. When that metal hits your lips. Seriously, man, right? Yeah, there's a little bit of. And when you hear that. It's great. Yeah, you almost like. And even as a sober guy, like, I'm cool with that. I like that sound. I want that sound to continue in my life. I just don't want the fucking drunk with it.

3:03Right. Oh, dude, sometimes I would lay in bed and just open cans of that over and over again out of like seven cans what after you got sober yeah just as remembrance remembrance of things past what'd you do tonight um yeah it's nice to be sober man and it's nice to know a sober buddy and there's something else. We saw each other outside and we didn't talk, but I think that was the first thing that popped in both of our minds. Yeah. And it's cool. It kind of like, it gives me a little bit of an exhale because honestly, dude, it just feels like so much less pressure for some reason. Yeah. That's cool. You know, I like that. Yeah. I like that too, man. So thank you so much for being here, dude. Yeah, man. It's a pleasure to see what I would look like if I were a little handsomer.

3:47Or a little gnarlier. A little more angry. But you're not. You just, you have like. I don't know. You look very welcoming, man. You're a very welcoming face. Oh, thank you, dude. You are, man. I appreciate you saying that, dude. Cito Rats, I'm reading your hat that's your company no that's a group that i grew up with if you want to get heavy for a second yeah let's get it dude i got my rat on my sweatshirt is that a rat oh wait what is that because uh they call me the rat king wait get the fuck out of here seriously so you made that yeah this is part of our so i made this i just took over the the what is it here. Seriously? So you made that? Yeah, this is part of our merch. So I made this. I just took over the, what is it, the trademark for this.

4:28Oh, you did? Cito Rats? So the guys that I grew up with called themselves the Cito Rats because they were in Montecito. And Montecito now is perceived like fucking Oprah Haven or something, which is fine. So fancy now is fancier? Yeah, there's a nucleus of like a lot of money and especially actors or industry people. But the group that I grew up with, 36 out of 50 are dead. Wow. From shit that we were just talking about. Really? So, and then my buddy would always talk about, hey man, you remember that place that we were this and I had a needle hanging out of my neck and do you remember on the corner of Romero Canyon and all this stuff? And I said, I'm so sick of hearing those stories that I'm going to spearhead this whole thing.

5:10So I've brought the whole thing back as a like survived and updated, like new and improved. And that's the that's the idea of the brand and also of the humans. Yes. Survived and updated. Amen, bro. So, yeah. So, if you look up sito rats, you can kind of get, because like, I don't know if you ever saw Bra Boys in Maruba. Like, there was a group of surfers there, Bra Boys, and they did a documentary on it. You can watch that. There's Duhui in Hawaii. There was Wolfpack in Kala. There were sito rats. Kind of like skaters. Skaters would have what? Who were the guys down south? Was Tony Alva and all those guys? Z-Boys. Dogtown. Dogtown and Z-Boys. Then you had Ed Men in Sacramento. And you had different, that was the skater.

5:59We were the surfer version of that. The Seato Rats. Yeah, because Dogtown and Z-Boys, those guys, it wasn't, like Jay Adams was severe. He was the only guy who was severe. Jay Adams, can you help me out, Nick, a little bit? Yeah, there you go. Hit that picture. Yeah. Let's go. He was a Dogtown guy, but he was the only one of that Dogtown group that was like that. Got it. Whereas if you look at N-men in sacramento i don't know if you want to bring up n-men but n-men in sacramento everybody was like that oh so the surf groups they were all like that sito rats were all like that got it you know so he was a real one he was a real one amen bro he was a real one r.i.p j adams dude bring up sito rats and see what comes up um the montecito

6:48yeah dude the rats bro well it's funny you talk about rats that they were surfers because here's one of the reasons why i i correlate with rats um for one rats can swim for up to three days right they can tread water for up to three days dude right on so that is a survival like that thing is a fucking that's a badass dude that is a badass dude that's a badass imagine you go out on a fishing trip with your buddies with your rich friends everybody's drowned around you still got the rat sitting there like i'm good man i'm good i got another two days in me yeah yeah all right so that's pretty cool and rats have whiskers that are extremely sensitive. That's how they pick up a lot of information.

7:28I'm super sensitive. So it's like that's a correlation for me. And this is one of my favorites. Rats, they don't vomit. They won't vomit. So that's why they're able to live in the shit. That's why they're able to live in the muck and have it just like the the, the, like the worst though in the worst spaces because they don't vomit. Yeah. It's like, it doesn't get to them. Like it doesn't like, it doesn't affect them. Like they're all factory senses and stuff. So they're able to stay in there. So there's something that's like, I don't know, like even in like the, just like a cockroach, like super resilient. Yeah. Yeah. But an upscale cockroach. But an upscale cockroach. Yeah, like shoddy thick.

8:06Like a rat is an upscale cockroach. Oh, it's a fucking problem. That's wild with the whiskers. The whiskers being sensitive and you called yourself super sensitive, like an empath, is that what they call it? I don't know about it. I don't know what that is. I don't know what an empath is. Me neither. A person who experiences the emotions, energy, and physical feelings of other people as if they were their own i think sometimes i'm like that i think honestly i didn't develop and i never thought about this sometimes i didn't really develop my own sense of feelings when i was growing up and so sometimes i think you almost take those you take moments off of other people's lives and existences and and that's why sometimes they feel like a lot. Does that make sense at all?

8:45No, it does make sense. And this is not like a ploy to try to talk about, but I wrote a book a year and a half ago and it had to do like kind of anecdotal paintings of how I grew up. And my mom was a wildlife activist. So we had wolves in our house. We had mountain lions. We had- In your house? In and out of our house, we had mountain lions, we had- Wait, in your house? In and out of our house. Like how much? Like my brother had 60 stitches in his leg at six years old from a wolf. No. And my mom definitely prioritized those animals more than us. So the point is, is that emotions and all that weren't, it's not that they weren't allowed, It's just, there was so much, there was such a high level of chaos

9:28that you just didn't, you know, what were you going to do? Like go in a corner and like cry or like talk to your parents about like how you were scared you were going to be eaten. Like it just wasn't, it's just that wasn't part of the deal. So yeah. Yeah. Sometimes I think when you have to be so alert, like you're saying there's chaos when you have to be so alert like you're saying there's chaos you have to be so alert it's hard for some of those other things i feel like i'm not having self-pity i'm just thinking i think it's hard for some of that other world to develop inside of you because you're just on a you know totally you're just like you're like somebody who's got to do night watch day and night it feels like you know seriously

10:01and don't you think i mean like to just bring it full circle that's why we drank i mean what were you like when you drank because when i drank it was like the it was the best it was like god feeling it was like i don't have to think at all now i can do whatever i want and i don't have that little voice in there going oh you're a piece of shit or you're you can't do that you're not good enough. You're not – like all that went away except my version of it was – it just – there was no limit. There was no ceiling. What were you like when you were drunk? When I drank, I was like somebody that was going to get cocaine. I love how you said that deadpan. Oh, to be honest with you. Seriously. Oh, yeah.

10:44I'm not even joking. Oh, to be honest with you. Seriously. Oh yeah. I'm not even joking. Oh no. Yeah. When I drank, it was like, I just like, I think I just drank just because I like, I didn't love drinking that much. Me neither. It was hard. Really? Interesting. No. It was hard for me to even realize I was an alcoholic because I didn't, I never, my friends were shocked. Like you're an alcoholic dude. Like, like you're a fucking weirdo, but you're, you're not an you're you're not an alcoholic right you got just a freak yeah yeah you got a lot of other shit that I would worry about before that uh but no I think it made me go like because cocaine I think it made me be able to feel immediately how and I could feel immediately

11:21some way and I don't there was something about that. Like I'm going to control how I feel right now. And it wasn't even the best feeling. I think it was a scared feeling, but I think deep on the other side of me, there was a lot of scared feelings. And for some reason, it was like two bookends. And finally there was something like, I don't even know, but sometimes I theorize little things like, so is that with alcohol or cocaine? That was with cocaine. It was just like, I'd have the only reason I wanted to drink was because if then i could have an excuse to go to to go do coke to get well you drink and then suddenly it wasn't like wasn't even a choice you had to go get right or it was like yeah immediate thing oh i'd see a child riding by

11:57on a bike and i'm like oh i should get some coke i could look at a calendar like oh easter's in four months i'll grab a bag bag. The Coke brought me down. Dude, cocaine helped me quit vaping. In what way? It just, I think sometimes- It took the place of everything else that any other vice you may have had. I think- It was all vices in one. Well, sometimes a cocaine hangover, it would be a couple of days, and I didn't want to do anything else to damage myself during that time. So it would give me enough time away from nicotine. Anyway. Anyway. I won't bring it up again. No, it's okay. It's interesting to talk about. You know what is nice? It's fun to laugh about because it takes the air out of whatever part of me that wants to behave that way.

12:38It makes it fun and it makes it like, I don't know, for a second you have some community and that's all I ever really wanted. I think it's more fun. It is more fun. I honestly think it's more fun. I don't say that just to say it because I think other people want to hear it. I actually think it's more fun. And I had a fucking blast when I was using. Did you? And I have more fun now. Yeah, let's go. More fun, I do. Oh, dude, I believe you had so much fun, dude. Dude, I was doing it and i was pretty ugly looking you know i'm saying like you're fine what are you talking about why do you keep saying that i mean i did it and i looked like me right if i looked like you i would have been definitely

13:13out partying bro dude i had to have a couple drinks to think i look like you all right um but let's rewind it man let's let's zone it back in a little bit dude so what do you mean your brother got attacked by a wolf yeah and you guys were what just like was it like a regular night or was it like like what do you we lived in paso robles we lived on a ranch we lived on so robles yeah north of here and we lived in a 200 on a 230 acre ranch oh wow my mom was from texas my mom was from corpus christi texas five foot three super loud like the voice of a six foot eight man yeah and yeah and she uh she was just animals were her thing like from when she was a kid so she became an animal activist she started working with fish and game and all that. And then she would take animals away from people

14:09who had illegally taken them out of the wild, have them jailed, and she would nurse them back to health. And if they'd been defanged or declawed or something like that, she'd find the most habitable zoo and then put them there. She didn't like those little cage zoos and all that um but we would so the transitional time would be in our place so we had you know a lion we had a bear at one point we had a chimpanzee for a long time oh really what was his name reggie reggie reggie reggie there's a story of reggie where reggie used to watch uh arnold schwarzenegger movies with my mom and you know how arnold would hold the gun here, right? And that was like, I think, Sly used to do that too. Yeah, that was a big thing at that time.

14:53That was a big thing. Like in the, was it the 80s? In the heavy guns. Yeah, exactly. Big bullets. And then there was a guy who came over and Reggie was in his cage. He wasn't in the house. My mom left somewhere. Reggie was in his cage. A't in the house my mom left somewhere reggie was in his cage a guy came over to fix the chicken coop reggie like finagled or macgyvered his way out of the cage came over everybody where i'm from has a gun right in their truck right on the window in iraq so he grabbed the gun fucking put one because he had seen it obviously in a movie, put one in the chamber. And the guy- Reggie did? Oh, damn. And then suddenly the guy fixing the chicken coop hears, and he goes, what the fuck is that?

15:36And he's laying down and he looks past the chicken coop and there's Reggie holding the gun at wayside. Yeah. Damn, Reggie was a real one. He was a real one. He was a real one. He was the masculine energy. Oh, and that's you and him in a Where's Waldo. Oh, that's Reggie right there. That's you and him dressing up for Halloween right there, boy. That's exactly right. And that's really him? Yeah, that's him. Wow. Where'd you find that picture, dude? That was just on the internet. That's crazy. Both you guys look nice, man. Dude, that was my at my worst was it yeah when i look at that that was a yeah that was a wacky town look at that like what is that that i have on my face do i shave the top from the nose like part way down something's up it's very

16:21it's very like i'm gonna be the best looking guy who's gonna cross the atlantic in the it looks like 20s don't i look like not in my 20s like 1920s like john fonte i'm seeing maybe one of the outsiders i'm seeing really somewhat but i'm also seeing very spice trader like spice aggressive brother of a successful spice trader always an aggressive brother and you finally show up with the freaking uh coriander that no one's ever heard of that's good and you've got the market coriander that's it very good it was okay you'd be a supportive yeah not bad i'll agree with did it was your mom like, was it easier for her to care about animals? Do you think or something? Or was she like good at it? For sure.

17:08You're the first person that's ever asked that for sure. But the human thing wasn't, didn't work for her. And she was a big drinker. So when she would drink, that was, that was her ability to kind of like, you know, my mom didn't just say, hi, how you doing? She grabbed you by the lapels and pulled you across the table and planted one on your mouth. That's how she'd say hello. And it was usually from like a 380-pound cowboy. Wow. You know, there's a thing in my book where I say- She was a force. Oh, dude, beyond, beyond. And I miss her, and she's not around anymore. But she, yeah, there's a thing in my book where she says and i know this is not cool to say now she saw this cowboy and he had a comb in his back pocket and she yells out it was about

17:52eight years old and she's she yells out hey she had this voice and she goes why do you have that comb in your pocket he turned around he said i'm sorry ma'am and she said, that comb, it looks . I'm like, why? Like, what's the fucking point? What's the end goal here? And then 15 minutes later, you have 10 guys buying my mom drinks. Ah. Always pulled it off somehow. She knew a bunch of truckers and if somebody flipped her off on the road, she'd call truckers on the CB and they'd box them in. Like, bro, that happened many times with me in the car. Like, I remember. Like, hey, breaker one nine, this is Catwoman. I got another flipper. Yes, okay, Jane, we got you. You know, and the guys would come out of fucking nowhere.

18:42There was no 18-wheelers anywhere. And then suddenly, box a guy in one guy would leave they'd push him off the side of the road and then thank you guys i appreciate it love you you know oh my god dude she was great she was great she was she was severe but she was great that's a cool word to use that's interesting severe is an interesting word to use so when you grow up in that not as a cool word to use that's interesting severe is an interesting word to use so when you grow up in that not as a victim because you said that earlier you know not to victimize yourself you go that's what it was and i accept it fully for what it was i like it because it colored my life later in a way once i've figured out a way to kind of regulate the whole thing

19:22yeah but without figuring it out then you're just spinning well then you're just fucking going you're like i don't know what's gonna happen from tuesday to wednesday to thursday but here we go yeah dude it feels uh well that's part of the unmanageability they say it's fun yeah until it's not it's not yeah that's it it's fun until it's not yeah dude and then you try to get that fun back and then that's when it gets really fucking crazy yeah then you're like i know i can figure this out i know it i kind of fucking know it yeah i can do this start working out like neil degrasse tyson like you know geometry in your head trigonometry astrophysics you're drawing shit on the walls he's drawing shit on

20:05the wall i know i can drink i can fucking figure it out you're carrying the one you're fine yeah you're using a calculator at the bar like yeah one of those big ones that has all the symbols yeah t-mobile sidekick or something um yeah i went through a spell uh where i was having a tough time and then i was so thankful to get back on track man yeah man it can get scary out there it gets scary and then you know we said again we try to drop this subject but it's like you look back and you go like i see guys that are going through it right now and then you'll see them like you know they get a you know a month or maybe a couple weeks and they go back out and they try it and they lose their wives and they lose everything and they can't see their kids anymore because of

20:48two days out, three days out because they had to go get five hookers. Like, what is it about alcohol that makes you want to go get five hookers? I don't know, but whatever's going on in that person's mind, that's a hidden little gem in there that nobody knows about gets unleashed. Yeah. person's mind that's a hidden little gem in there that nobody knows about gets unleashed yeah and and you go yeah it's not gonna that's gonna happen every time yeah no matter what when you eat strawberries you will break out yeah it's gonna happen no but if i just eat the right strawberry nope yeah but if i just have a strawberry game. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly right. That's right. Anyway. Were the Cedar Rats guys, was there partying then?

21:30Or was that just sort of a surfing club? Oh, no, no, no. Like, was it a gang? It wasn't a gang. Okay. It was definitely not a gang. It was a group of guys. I mean, didn't you have a group of guys growing up? Oh, yeah. Yeah, well, that's it. That's what it was. It was just a community, especially in the 80s when you had parents that, you know, were kind of, how did I put it in my book? They were more interested in the sound of their eyes than they were about necessarily parenting. You know, they all had their drinks and their cocaine and their this and their parties and all that kind of stuff. So we relied on each other. And it was a great reliance. It was amazing. But it was the beginning of punk rock.

22:07So the guys that, my best friend growing up, Jason Sears, had a band called Rich Kids on LSD, RKL, and that became a big band. Rich Kids on LSD? On LSD, and they've influenced, like I talked to Eddie Vedder about it, he said, well, no fucking way, you know jason sears we were hugely influenced by that i mean there's a ton of bands that were influenced and this is like the greatest band that never got the notoriety that any of these other bands got but that like jason was my best friend oh wow so all those guys whether it was punk rock and whether it was surfing or that was the beach and you know it was beach and it was a group of guys that you could rely on that were a fucking great group of guys.

22:50I mean, great, dude. Talk about colorful. So you're going colorful from that, but then she's busy now. And we got color this. And if you look at Dahoui or like Bra Boys, like I said, but then it starts to self-destruct. Then it starts to not work anymore. Super fun for a while. Then we started not going to school and then you get into, you know, the heroin that came in in the 90s and suddenly these guys just started dying left and right. Some of your friends up there? Most of them. Wow. There's a couple of guys that like, when I talk about this, they're like, you know, we're all not dead, dude. By the way, we all didn't die. Some of us are still okay. Chris Rest. Some of us are still treading water over there.

23:35Yeah. The rats, baby. Exactly, the rat. That's it. I love that you said that. Well, they're fascinating, man. They're fascinating animals. And they're kind of, I don't know if reviled is the word, but they're like, I don't know. They're always kind of looked down upon or looked at like this. Rats are? Yeah, or looked at like this outsider thing. Yeah. You know? I'm going to look for this picture for a second. And they feel, yeah, a rat. It's like their skin, it's like they crawl and their skin crawls, you know? It's like a, it's like. Yeah, but why is it always like, Cito Rats obviously has some connotation where it's like, this is the shit of the shit. Yeah, but if Cito Rats sounds punk though,

24:19it sounds dope. It sounds good. It sounds dope, yeah. It does sound great. I agree, it's great. And so now it's an actual, it's a brand. Those guys are still, I mean, the guys are still around, like everybody's older now. Everybody's in their late 50s and early 60s. Yeah. But then you, it was purely out of reaction of being sick of hearing the stories, you know? It's like, you're like, okay, these guys are sober now. People have gotten sober. It's good. They're still sito rats. It's still scrappy. It's still punk, but it's just not as self-destructive as it was. But I went to a wedding recently. I officiated a wedding for a friend of mine whose dad was a Mesa rat, which was up the hill. And old gang member, gnarly guy, likebara was way gnarlier than anybody could have imagined

25:06right back then you know you can't imagine it now yeah no you can't ever and uh so i was and this girl came up to me and it was it was like i've seen i've seen enough recovery now where i'm not used to it anymore and this girl came up to me. She's like, hey, man, I knew Damon, dude. And I was like, oh, fuck, who's that? She was like, hey, man, do you remember? We were 15, bro, and I think you touched my tits at some point. And I was like, oh, fuck. This is why I don't want to talk about it anymore. This chick was super gnarly. And she kept talking about one of my best friends was found on the bathroom. He died was super gnarly. And she kept talking about, one of my best friends was found on the bathroom.

25:47He died. He had OD'd and died. And she was like, Damon, man, what the fuck? Can you believe it, man? Such a character. And the smell of vodka, bro. The smell of whatever it was that she was having. But that's what I wanted to try and shift. Yeah, kind of refurbish it. Perfect word. Because it also deserves a bit of refining because at a certain point, like something's like tough and rugged and it's period like that. But at a certain point, it's put in so much work to be that, that it almost deserves someone to come along. I don't want to say like a jeweler of sorts, but an appreciator and come along and say, you know what? This deserves to kind of be refurbished in just enough of a way where it can be revered.

26:33We like the foundation. We respect the foundation. It's like we bought a house in Santa Barbara. It was Joe Walsh's old house. Joe Walsh from freaking Unsolved Mysteries? No, no, no, dude. What? Who am I thinking of? Joe Walsh from the Eagles. You're thinking of the guy that who is he thinking of yeah that's joe that joe walsh oh yeah joe joe walsh one of the greatest guitarists of all time and we didn't change the house it out i'm thinking john no you're thinking of john walsh i remember him what was the show that he had america's most wanted that. That was it. America's Most Wanted. I used to watch that show. Oh, it was a good show. That was a good show. You bought Joe Walsh's old house? And it was so ratty and fucked up

27:14and it didn't have a foundation and half of it and all that. But we didn't change anything. We just updated it. Nice. And it's like ranchy and cool and bitching looking. There's rocks all over the place. Same concept. Nice. And it's like ranchy and cool and bitchin' looking. There's rocks all over the place. Same concept. Yeah. Same concept. Because you just could see, like, I don't want to be defined in one way. I don't want to be like, I am Amicito, right? You know, fuck you. You know, throw a rock at your head. It's what we do. You know, you're like, that's just dumb. You're 60, bro. We're throwing rocks at people's head. So even like, I know you had Neil deGrasse Tyson on and I did Colbert's penultimate show

27:55and Colbert and I became super close. Is he a neat guy? He is the coolest, like literally I get emotional talking about it. He is the coolest, most caring motherfucker I know. Wow. Like amazing. An amazing human being. I'd like to meet him. He's really cool, man. You should have him on the show now that he's got nothing to do. Oh, did he lose his job? Well, yeah, he got fired. That was it. They canceled the show. That's why I said penultimate show. The show before his last show. Oh, the penultimate. Penultimate show. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, anyway. show. The show before his last show. Oh, the penultimate. Penultimate show. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Just say the show before the last one. Okay, dude. Look.

28:33I just saw that shaming look. Like, why you got to do that to me on my own fucking show, dude? Bitch. No, dude. We fucking. They knew when you said it, I didn't know. They knew when you said it, I didn't know. You should put it up on the thing. That's what you should have done, is put it up on the thing. We do vocabulary at the end of the year. We do a big vocabulary episode. Do you really? We're going to start this year. We're nine years late on it. Penultimate means second to last or immediately preceding the final one in a series or sequence. Perfectly used. The penultimate. Perfectly placed. Very well. Penultimate. That's good stuff. As you guys know, MoonPay is my go-to place to buy crypto.

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31:12Better blades, smarter features, longer battery life, and an overall grooming experience that's faster, easier, and a whole lot more comfortable. Head to manscaped.com and use code theo to get 15 off plus free shipping at checkout that's 15 off plus free shipping with code theo at manscape.com or if you need it today it's available now at best buy dude my mom would keep a dictionary in a house it was like the one thing like our fucking it would be the most miserable existence ever right but every now and then you had to go look up a word oh yeah that was your education oh dude it was like i'm doing my job as a fucking apartment was sinking someone had stolen our balcony again everything was just a fucking nightmare like you

32:03wouldn't even go to sleep at night because you were too busy crying and fucking oh that's awful it was fucking it was it was it was yeah right it was you were either wetting the bed or crying but there was always some liquid that was leaving your body because it didn't want to be involved anymore god it wanted out it's like i wanted out of the prison it's like you have to stay, I don't, motherfucker. Yeah, people stole our balcony. Look, we talk about this a lot, but there it is. People would- Holy shit. People would steal our balcony. No, no, but did somebody come in and actually steal, like pull off your balcony? Yeah, they did. What do you fricking mean? That's what it means. Well, I know, but I thought maybe

32:39you were putting a new one. No, no, no, no. And then you made it look like somebody stole it. Somebody actually came in and stole your balcony. Yeah times dude and so it was just times yeah because people would steal the wood and use it for stuff down the street so you'd have to fucking then pull up and somebody one time built a fucking baby crib out of it and that's the worst you're like we want it back and the fucking babysitting babysitting oh dude you can't steal it from the baby now oh did you actually see a baby crib made out of your wood knowing it was your wood 100 that's fucking crazy that's the coolest shit all the time because it was good wood yeah well obviously because it was new wood because you had to keep replacing it but this part of the apartment was sinking all the

33:20time and so we'd be at dinner and like it was just a nightmare and mom would like it would be absolutely miserable with mom would be like i'm gonna go lay out in the yard and it was just like everything was just a fucking nightmare but louisiana's tough man my assistant who loves you by the way is absolutely in love with you erica shout out to erica oh i'm glad that it went erica i thought it was gonna stop no eric er loves you my assistant Eric my assistant Bob loves you No, Erica loves you, but she's from Louisiana. Oh nice. She's tough. She lives in in in Atlanta, but she's She's tough and I fat like I went to jail and in in Louisiana Louisiana's tough and what were the charges I don't know.

34:06Drunken, fighting, no. Oh, obstruct, no. It was, when you get in the way of something that the cops are doing, what do they call it? Oh yeah, there you go. Josh Boland and Tiger Woods went to jail together. That's not Tiger Woods, bro. What's the matter with you? I don't know. I figure you hang out with fancy people sometimes. That's you. Even, scroll up, let me see. Josh Brolin and Jeffrey Wright, sorry, Shreveport arrested two actors and several crew members involved with the latest movie in Hollywood South. W. The star of Oliver Stone's film W early this morning. At least they put the star of it. Thank God, right? Yeah. At least I'm worth something. Pretty cool. Other than just a mugshot.

34:56Did you get arrested? Was this a frequent thing? Yeah, fairly. Was it? Did you feel like you had to get, or like, because if you go partying, did it feel like you have to get it? Because I never had you go parties you feel like you have to get it because i never had that kind of stuff really no i know you didn't because you didn't have the face for it yeah yeah you're too nice of a face yeah oh well i just had a face you wanted to arrest oh did it yeah i think so i think so no i don't feel like i did that no that was more my mom coming out my mom would get arrested too. Oh, really? Yeah, but she'd usually get out of it. Yeah. Like there's a story about my mom where she got pulled over and the guy was like not talking to her really.

35:33And she always sped. She always went a hundred miles an hour. That was the number she loved was a hundred. So she was a hundred miles an hour and get pulled over. And this guy's giving her a ticket. She took the ticket. Like they used to have those, or he's a motorcycle cop, so they had the whatever, that leather thing with the ticket inside and handed it to her. And she took it and she threw it out in the middle of the freeway. And then he stopped traffic, went out, picked it up, came back, handed it to her again, and she liked that. She liked that kind of like silent strong type and they became really close friends he was over at the house all the time so where she would where one would have gone to jail mucho she got she would have too but she just was so charming

36:18she got out of it it makes me realize there's something some women like that thing of like that's what i mean i never realized that till recently some women like that thing of like. That's what I mean. I never realized that till recently. Some girls like it when it's just like. They love it. Fuck you. I think that's coming around too. I mean, this is gonna get me in trouble, but I think there's something that's like, things have been so sketch and scary and paralyzed that I'm starting to see that kind of come back oh we're getting out of the wheelchair brother you feel me we're getting out of the wheelchair stella got it her legs back we got this shit um yeah you had uh you had fame at a young age.

37:05Like, how do you go from this Cito Ratz kind of energy, right? How do you go from... We don't want to talk about it. No, I don't know. Because how do you go from that to becoming like a... No, I think it's fascinating. Because when I look at pictures of, like, me and the Goonies, which never should have happened, because I had missed 36 out of 56 days of school. I got in a fight with my mom. She kicked me out of the house in Santa Barbara. I went to go live on the couch with my dad. And he was in an apartment with his girlfriend in LA. So it was like me going, I got to get my shit together. What do I do? My dad's an actor. Maybe I'll try that. Maybe I'll do that in martial arts. You always got to get into martial arts when you're getting your shit together.

37:44Everybody. Every kid. You know what I mean? That's fist foot weight. That's what the movie's about that's it that's it and then so yeah i tried to get my shit together and i went on auditions i went on so many auditions dude and i heard so many people say basically versions of you suck like definitely don't do this don't pursue this like the martial arts thing sounds pretty good for you what were you good at were you were you what what were you good at auditioning auditioning is hard no i just said i was horrible at it bro i was horrible i'm so bad at my job you just horrible not only was i horrible then but i was always horrible at it and there was a girl and i've said this many times but meryl poster who was third in charge at

38:32miramax said when she when that thing was still going on she said the worst she said it publicly the worst auditioners we ever saw we ever experienced in our kind of history at Miramax were Benicio del Toro and Josh Brolin let's go so there's some positive in that somewhere yeah well there's something you look at Benicio and you go he's great yeah and there's some way that obviously that that doesn't define everything because yeah I think like that auditioning is so hard dude one time i went in this is a freaking embarrassing story i'd stayed up watching um shirley temple movie right all right and i went in an audition and they're like you have to sing something and i can't sing at all right i can sing i mean i can

39:18do christmas carols and maybe a couple of mild stuff, or maybe some early Bush. Guns and Roses. Yeah, I can do some Guns and Roses, but that's imitational, but it's like I can't really sing. So I sang a song of Shirley Temple's, right, in this fucking audition room, and I think they're like- Really? Yeah, what the- Like you chose it? Yeah. They were like, can you sing? And you go, actually, I prepared a Shirley Temple song. Yeah. And I didn't know what else to do because it was more like a – it's almost like reading a poem or singing like Christmas. It didn't feel like real singing or something, you know? And I remember at first I started and it was not going good. And I was like, can you guys open the window?

40:02Because I was just so fucking scared. So they tried to open this window and it didn't open. It was like one of those businesses where they just want you to be in pain in there. They're over there looking at the fucking thing and they already know I have no chance at this thing. And then I was like, and so then I did it again. And I just like, God, I remember going home and being like, I just can't fucking live like this, man. It's horrible. There's no worse feeling. I know people who audition even today. And I'm like, I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. Yeah. I just, I mean, and you think it's something like, so we'll go back. But like, so after the Goonies, I didn't really, there was flirting with disaster in the middle.

40:46There was a movie that I did that I was really lucky to get, and the only reason I got it is because David O. Russell demanded that I was the guy. But Miramax said no, he's a guy who should have hit and didn't. So I spent 22 years kind of in the ethers after the Goonies, right? Because Goonies, that was one of the biggest, at the time, was it one of the biggest things that ever happened? Yeah. Okay. You mean to me or just period? I think just period. Was it? It was. Yeah. Because I remember like, when did Goonies come out? Was it 80s? 85. Right. I remember of course watching it when I was a kid, but sometimes when you're a young kid, you're not exactly this sure if something came out four years ago or it just came out.

41:24But yeah, it was one of the craziest. It was like everybody impersonated everything and everything was related to it. And like you have like, yeah, it was Halloween costumes and everything. Um, so that was one. So it was one of the biggest things that happened. So at that time, were you drinking and partying at that time? Yeah, bro. That's what, that's the thing. No, no, I'm not saying that like a pot, but bring up that last. That's what, that's the thing. No, no, no. I'm not saying that like a pot, but bring up that last picture that you just, that you just had. Like I look at that and then I think I'm lying. Do you know how, like if you look back at your stories and all that kind of stuff and you're talking about your mom and you're talking about how they stole your balcony

41:59and all that kind of stuff. And then you think, am I lying lying did i make a bunch of shit up because when i look at that dude i go you look pretty healthy and young and pretty innocent and naive oh like are the stories in your head not real or not real because because that guy i don't see what i know was the trajectory from eight to that i I see. Is super gnarly. You know, I'm not gonna say it on here, but the shit that I was doing before that moment was, I should have been here already. Really? Oh yeah, for sure. You were partying pretty hard? Super hard. Like some of those guys had already died at that point. So anyway, then you get this, then you go out and you'd be with your dad and then you go on the 350 auditions and people are saying, you know,

42:50it's not for you. And then you get a role and it's that role and you show up and you've never done it and you don't know what you're doing. So that was one of your first roles, Goonies? The first role. No way, dude. I didn't, sorry. I didn't know this. The first time ever in front of a camera. I ruined the first day of shooting because I couldn't stop laughing. Wow. Couldn't stop ruining the whole fucking thing. Because you were laughing because it all seemed ridiculous? No, it was just like nerves, like nerves coming out sideways and shit. Action, you know, just fucking it all up. And I remember Spielberg coming up and saying, we need to, we need to get through this. You need to just take a breath and let's just get through this.

43:31And I'm like, oh, oh yeah. Okay, good. But then, yeah. And then I did thrashing after that, which was, became like one of the worst movies I ever did to me at that time. Thrashing? Yeah. It was a skateboarding movie. Oh, that makes sense skateboarding movie. Oh. That makes sense, though. There you go. Like, look at that quintessential 80s movie. Oh, my God. Yeah. You look like Will Ferrell in that. I do? Really? This is like Will Ferrell and a young David Spade, I feel like, in this picture right here, dude. My assistant Bob loves you. I mean, that's the thing. It's like, it's a guy story. That's great. You know, it actually, that picture looks like Val Kilmer really a little bit. It kind of does, doesn't it?

44:14What, me or her? You do. Oh yeah, good. Different stages of Val. That was Val later. Thrash and it was just Val finding himself or whatever. So that kind of became like Tony Hawk was in that. Were you ever a skater? No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Tony Hawk was Val later. Thrash and it was just Val finding himself. So that kind of became like Tony Hawk was in that. Were you ever a skater? No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Tony Hawk was in that and like Tony Alva and all these famous skaters, Christian Hissoi. And this became way later like a cult film. Got it. That's what I was gonna ask you if it became like a cult classic kind of. But I saw it and I was so bad in it. I was like, my acting is actually like actively hurting people at this point.

44:49Like go figure this out. But what do you, did you think that it was because you'd had a better director the first time? Or could you even ever do it and you just didn't realize it maybe? But you're asking questions that I couldn't even because I hadn't been around. It's not like I grew up in the business and I grew up in LA and all, so I didn't know. All I know is I sounded stupid to me. And then I had no voice control, which I realized later is like part of it. And you kind of, you know, you're like, Chrissy, I love you. And you're like, ew, you know? And then I went to New York and I studied and I did all that stuff and then it kind of changed it i met this guy anthony zerby i started doing a bunch of theater

45:30i started doing all that stuff's boring but yeah i took it seriously so i had 22 years of taking it seriously because nobody was interested until really i did no country. Yeah. And then no country kind of changed shit. Kind of, yeah, definitely. Good for you, dude. Yeah, thanks, man. Just sticking it out and still believing in yourself, I bet. Were there times where you were like, did you get another job ever? Was there a time where you were like, I can't, well, I guess you had to get a job at some point, something else, or were you able to just financially take care of yourself? Yeah, I was a landscaper for a job at some point, something else. Or were you, were you able to just financially take care of yourself?

46:05Yeah, I did. I was a landscaper for a year. Oh, fuck. Yeah. And then I was, when I was 30, I was, I traded full time. I learned how to trade from a guy named Brett Markinson. Trading what? Cards? Stocks. Oh, stocks. Yeah. Stocks. Wow. And I was, I was really good at it. You were a stock trader? For almost five years, full time. Were you on the floor with the tickets and stuff? No, yeah. Stocks. Wow. And I was really good at it. You were a stock trader? For almost five years, full time. Were you on the floor with the tickets and stuff? No, bro. Oh. That would have been great. Yeah. You know? No. I was at home with one, two, three screens and four tabs per screen. Oh, you were day trading? I was day trading.

46:40I was swing trading and day trading. What's the most that you ever made in a? The most, I made more money, I'd put it this way, I made more money in those four years really, it was five years, but within four years than I had made in 20 years acting. Damn. But I didn't really make hardly anything acting. You know, there was, I didn't. Because I wasn't really working. I mean, think about it, dude. And it's not, and I don't mean to insult anybody wasn't really working i mean think about it dude and it's not and i don't mean to insult anybody out there but if you think about like and i think it's okay to say this no country i made how much do you think i made from no country i had been doing it already for 22 years 20 whatever years how much they paid you to be in no country you

47:19know a little bit about somebody being paid or not being paid. How much do you think they paid? I think that they paid you up front. I bet that they paid you $200,000. That's pretty good. That was a good guess. A hundred. So I cleared what? 30? Yeah. That's not considered a great year. Nuh-uh. You know what I mean? Yeah. 30. Yeah. And then I did American Gangster after that because i auditioned while i was doing no country i sent in a tape and my son who was 16 at the time played the denzel part we sent in that tape that's pretty cool that's the last audition i ever did that was it i think so i think so i think maybe there was one other offer only i love that you have to celebrate that stuff. It's cool.

48:05Oh fuck, that's cool. It's so cool, dude. Especially the fucking hurting people with my auditions. But yeah, anyway, that's that. And so the day trading went good. The day trading I loved, man. But you had to give it up to Act Ed. But it was, but that's the kind of like, to go back and like say how you're defined in your way and like, oh, this is how I'm defined or it's fighting or it's drinking and all that kind of shit. And then you start, things start to get revealed that you're good at. You're like, wow, I could have developed this shit when I was young, given the opportunity or maybe given somebody to direct you, a mentor or a parent or something like that. Like you're actually good at this shit.

48:43You're not a total dumb shit. Right. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, there was nothing. There was nothing to suggest that there was anything other than a hollow shell of alcohol. Yeah. Oh, dude. Sometimes it's like if I had somebody just to help lay down some banks. That's it. But instead, I spend my whole life just like literally just trying to keep the water in with my fucking hands, it feels like. That's it. And it just feels impossible sometimes. But not all the time. And over time, it gets better. Yeah. When did you start to get sober? When was that like journey for you? Quickly? I'll tell you at 19, I'd gotten busted for something and I had to get out of it. So at 19, I did 19 and I was doing a little, I did a little bit of, uh, I did jail time,

49:26but then I stayed sober for three and a half years then i went back out very actively like consciously and then i like i'm gonna go out there oh yeah like i'm i missed that yeah i'm gonna go do that crazy heart kind of yeah like young young i was what 23 when i went back out 22 23 what were y'all drinking out there then i don't know what we're gonna look at you all into it oh you're like what would you all into it. It just gets me started. You're like, what were you all drinking? Did it taste good? What were we drinking back then? I was drinking... What was it? I was drinking white Russians. Why was I drinking white Russians? Wow. But it's for a reason. It's like, why? Are we trying to be fancy?

50:04It was probably a movie. No. It wasn't fancy. It was for... I don't know. Oh, that's... Yeah, maybe that was it. When did it come out? When did that cool. Yeah, maybe that was it. When did it come out? When did that movie come out? Maybe that was it. And then I end up working with him twice. So there you go. When? 98. 98. No, it wasn't that. But it could have been. Dude, that's great. There was some unknown connection. We went to Santa Barbara and got to hang out with Jeff one day. No way. Yeah. Oh, he's the best, dude. It was only two months dude it was one of bro one of the coolest times of my life he has a freaking chat GPT friend that no yeah dude he talks with yeah Gary's like Gary what and he's so of course he does oh he had me talking to Gary like the dude is on so what does

50:50he do ask him questions he asked him like therapy questions all kinds of stuff he's like tell him about our wife gary and he just he had me locked in bro it's just me him talking to his computer then he made his computer make up a song about us hanging out it was crazy that's great but it was so cool uh but yeah bridges was nice dude you know what he's great he sent me a nice picture that he drew for me. Yeah, of course he did. And he mailed it and he said, we can get some soup when I come back. Yeah, soup, just randomly. Yeah. Because he can say whatever he wants and it works. Yeah, he can. Even with that voice. Even I was making fun of my voice, you know, been thrashing, but he like somehow made that voice cool.

51:31Hey, man. Yeah, yeah. like somehow made that voice cool. Hey man. Yeah. How's it going, man? Yeah. It's good to see you, man. Yeah. You're like, how did you make that cool? That's so not cool. I do. I love him, man. I worked with him twice. Oh, that's so cool. He's the fucking best. Bro, that was one of the coolest days ever. Just to sit around with him, enjoy some moments, talk about some different stuff. Talked about relationships. Buddhism. Yeah, a little bit of Buddhism. He had his buddy who had written a book. That was pretty cool. Then he talked about he was in recovery, too. He'd been in some recovery rooms. Yeah. So we talked about that a little bit. And we talked a lot about Crazy Heart, man.

52:08Yeah, did you? Yeah. Because you love that movie. I love it. I do, too. God. Do you know Yeah. Because you love that movie. I love it. I do too. God. Do you know the guy who made the movie, who's the director? Oh, man, he's a sober dude, which is okay to say, I think. Scott. Scott. Scott Cooper. Jesus, man. Sorry, Scott. No, dude. Bro, that song in there, The Weary Kind? Yeah. Oh, it's just so good, everything about it. And who, wait, wasn't Colin Farrell in it? Colin Farrell came up at the end and he sang a song at the end. No. Yeah, dude. Was Colin Farrell in that movie? You're our chat GPT. Jeff chat. What was his name? Gary. Gary to Jeff. Yeah yes gary i got it hey gary paul herman peewee herman

52:54peewee herman peewee herman paul herman no paul herman was in the scorsese movies paul herman paul herman was the boyfriend of my first wife when i met her before we had our first two kids dear god just keep going through the internet And I have some connection with every single thing that you bring up. Oh, dang. Yeah, dude. Paul Herman. Paul Herman was great. Robert Duvall. He played the bartender in it that helped him get sober. That's right. Dude, that movie was so. It was so good, man. So good. And then he was so good. But you know what? I remember seeing Jeff. I hope Jeff is okay with me saying this. I remember seeing Jeff on the circuit, on like the promotional circuit during that time

53:37that he did Crazy Heart. And I go, hey, how you doing? He goes, I miss being an underdog. Oh. Because he was just going from one thing to the other, And it was like, fuck. That whole thing you get out of your own skis i'm sure i would imagine because you do something that people love or that you're lauded for but i've never had to really deal with that really it seems like it's kind of getting to that space does it feel like no you don't think i don't know oh yeah i don't know i don't understand my career at all did Did you ever feel like you knew though? No, no. Really? No. Because I could see Jeff like gets like so busy. You don't kind of don't even know. And then like, whatever it was, it made you feel special. It feels like you've outs,

54:22not outsourced it, but you've, you've used it a lot. And even if you use your gifts a lot, I feel like, um, they, there's something about, they, they lose their allure to you, I think. Yeah, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know exactly what you mean. And so, but that also on top of that, like I saw at Santa Barbara bowl, I saw Jeff, that's the last place I saw Jeff and we're talking and we were at Dylan and we both know Dylan separately. At Bob Dylan? Yeah. Yeah. And Dylan, and we were both talking about, imagine what it's like being Dylan. Imagine the level of fame that you can't go anywhere without people going, that's a genius. Like that's Bob fucking Dylan, who's defined eras in the world. Yeah.

55:12While Jeff and I are having a talk and maybe somebody's coming up going, I love Lebowski, dude. Fuck yeah. Or people go, no country. What was up with that dude's haircut? Yeah, bro. You know? And why is Jeff fans are Mexican? It seems like it. i don't know because we're in santa barbara oh that's a good point bro crazy hard bro oh i loved you in in milk bro you fucking played harvey milk didn't you you played i don't know i didn't bro you were harvey milk i wasn't harvey milk sean penn wasn't it? It was Sean Penn. He's pretty incredible, huh? Dude, he's amazing. He's amazing in that movie. I saw that movie recently. Did you ever get to meet the guy that played My Red Foot or whatever? You know what I'm talking about?

55:59My Left Foot? My Red Foot, I like. My Red Foot. That's the guy that got that rash. Oh yeah, it was the guy. It was either him or it was that- No, Daniel Day-Lewis? Yes, dude. God, I love talking to you, man. You know nothing about the movie industry. Yeah. That's amazing. I don't know a ton about it, man. No, no, no, no. I'm not blaming you. I'm saying it's amazing. It's amazing because you're talking about life shit. Yeah. I'm not talking about like, oh, you're here and we're going to talk about the movie industry all the time. It's like when you had Neil deGgrasse tyson in here how was that it was cool because i think some people like have thoughts like he has different views like i think he thinks men can be pregnant and

56:40stuff like that or whatever but i don't care some of that sometimes i don't care about like things like that like i want to talk to him about space yeah and i want to hear his voice you want to yeah and so sometimes for me it's like sitting and just listening to his voice for a couple of hours and just seeing if I can like, I don't know, just have some nice thoughts with him or something. Sometimes it's just about like spending time. So that was pretty cool. And he's like, did you know, you know, and he just fog and he kind of seems like something like, um, I don't even know what he seems bigger than life. He seems like father Time's thick son. Yeah. That's exactly what he seems like. It's like if Father Time had a thick son that went and did his own shit, like his space shit.

57:21And his dad's like, bro, don't be doing all the space shit. And Neil's like, I'm doing the space shit. I'm doing it. I don't give a fuck what you say. I'm going out on my own. Yeah. I'm going out on my own. Yeah. And he also, dude, and he also like he went out, but with like a hat, like he just has this like kind of timeless, I can't even explain it. Yeah, no. That's what, that's what I got when I met him. He came up to me and he was like, Hey man, I'm a big fan. I just want to say hello. And I was like, Oh, nice to meet you. It's great. And then I'm talking to him. I don't recognize him. And then I looked down and he's got like one of those like Aloha shirts, but it's got planets all over it and like shooting stars.

57:54And I'm thinking what a weird shirt to wear. And I was like, no fucking way. And then it hit me. You're Neil deGrasse Tyson, your father time. Yeah. But the thick cousin of father time. Fuck yeah. It's so nice. Yeah, dude. You know, those items in your closet that you find yourself wearing on repeat i do it that sweater that goes with everything or a perfect pair of pants or that t-shirt that you somehow always reach for first those are the things that make getting dressed easy and that's what quince does best qu Quince focuses on high-quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and merino wool. They sent me a few items, and I really like them, especially the linen short-sleeved shirts.

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1:00:31Head to Chime.com slash Theo. That's Chime.com slash Theo. Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details. I love that shit. And that's why I asked because things are being revealed now. Forget about like sobriety shit. As an older person, things are being revealed now that I'm more excited about than I've ever been. Like quantum physics with him. And then I started like reading his shit. And then I started reading, you know, what's his name, Carlo Ravello, a Ravelli. You know, and that Carlo Ravelli was, you know,

1:01:22wrote this book on, you know, the basics of quantum physics. And is that him? Yeah, yeah, man. And these guys are fucking genius yeah and it's so fun following this like labyrinth of all this new stuff and being turned on to all this shit that i'm like this is amazing this is like i feel like i'm this should have happened when i was in school but it didn't but it's happening now and it's happening now it's so cool do you feel like you've had two different lives a life before sobriety and after, like, is there something that that did for you that made life even more interesting? No, I feel like there's been like 28 of them. So there wasn't one or two or like one. And then this happened, then it all changed. No. And maybe cause I'd been sober a few times. I don't know.

1:02:08I don't know. I don't think it has to do. I think part of it has to do with sobriety, but part of it has to do with people I met. Part of it has to do with setting. Like I just literally landed from Tucson, Arizona, and I went to Tucson, Arizona for three days. And I saw a guy that I've known for 38 years, who I met on the set of some series that I was doing out in the middle of nowhere, 45 minutes from Tucson that nobody ever saw. But I met this fireman out there and he's still one of my best friends. Wow. So I just went out there and stayed in his little guest room and we, you know, and it's just cool shit. And Tucson is fucking weird. Dude, it's weird. I used to live there. What? I freaking lived near Colvin Pantano.

1:02:46What? Yeah, dude. I used to freaking live. Wait, did you go to college there? I went to University of Arizona for one semester. And I went to high school there for one semester too, dude. I used to freaking live. Wait, did you go to college there? I went to University of Arizona for one semester. And I went to high school there for one semester too, dude. And they would always have like all the kids, like predominantly Mexican kids in my school. And that means all Mexican kids. Yeah. That was me too, by the way. And dude, it was me, bro. And I took fucking Spanish class, bro. And they were fucking over on the side fucking doing like, I think some of them were like even painting the classroom and shit.

1:03:14Like people were fucking worth, like they got in jobs with the school for that hour. Or they were all hanging out and I was the only one talking with the teacher. It was like me and the teacher just learning Spanish and they all knew it, but it was a class of dead. And all the kids would fight in a car wash after like, you want a box, they say. And they would fucking fight in the car wash after. That's how you know how to do the accent. And bro, the best was the guy, like the short guy. But when he would talk, he would have to get taller. So he would look fucking straight up, bro. He'd be like, dog. You ever see La Sleepy? She dances. Bring up La Sleepy. I've never seen her. Yeah, La Sleepy.

1:03:49Oh, La Dormirsa. Sleepy. There's La Sleepy. Oh, bro. I up Le Sleepy. I've never seen her. Yeah, Le Sleepy. Oh, La Dormirsa. Le Sleepy. There's Le Sleepy. Oh, bro. I love Le Sleepy. Dang. She's cool as shit. She will dance on Instagram for you. Look at, oh, yeah. Fuck yeah. No, anyway, yeah. Tucson, yeah. Tucson's magical. My school, just to say it, Santa Barbara High, three and a half thousand people, 80% Mexican. Really? Oh yeah, 80% Mexican. And it wasn't like a thing and it's not a thing, but it was definitely like when I showed up at school, it's like, what you looking at, white boy? Yeah. It was like, oh man, it's all good. What's happening, huevo? Scrappy. What's happening, huevo? Yeah, that's what they would say.

1:04:29What's up, pussy? What's up, huevo? What's up? They's happening, Wevo? Yeah. That's what they would say. What's up, Bessie? What's up, Wevo? What's up? They would call me Egg. And it would be the blue pants and then the wife beater and then the shirt with the button up here and open, all the rest, and the vans, the slip-on vans. Yeah, it was cool. Orale. It was fun, bro. Yeah, I went to Santa Rita. Did you? Yeah, Santa Rita High School. And they would have the alarms would go off they would have some sort of gang issues all the time and so the alarms would i mean have to lay down i remember laying down at lunch and having to eat my cheeseburger just laying there it wasn't about like earthquakes and shit shootings it was just like violencia you know

1:05:05but it was a fucking ever see two mexican chicks? I don't know if I did, but- It's nothing I've ever seen in my life, including Tyson boxing matches, that is that violent. Ever. Really? Oh, bro. Yeah. Just went at it. Because they get it done. Hair pulling, punching, nails. That's what we need. We need that back. Yeah. We need that back. Do you know Dana pretty well? Yeah. I's what we need. We need that back. Yeah. Do you know Dana pretty well? Yeah. I know Dana pretty well. I do know Dana. Yeah. I know Dana through motorcycling. He loves Harleys and I love Harleys. Does he? Yeah, loves. Is that one of your hobbies? Like my thing is I have a group of guys and I go to these long pulls, 1200 mile pulls or whatever.

1:05:46And then Dana does it with newer bikes, but he has he has you know his group of guys and he goes out and we talk and i didn't know that oh yeah yeah he's been real good to me about just uh yeah just welcoming me into that group over there just letting me be around their group yeah and um that's cool i do yeah i mean that's been one of the gifts of my life is being associated with i think the people there and the the getting to see the fighters inspired by a lot of those guys you know it's so fascinating the fighting i do yeah at first i didn't yeah me too when it first happened it's too much i was like this is not gonna work it was crazy dude it was the same people that were like breeding dogs and shit would have like a vh fighting yeah they'd have a vhs tape

1:06:27the same guy that was like saying you could could fuck my sister, bro, or whatever. Like that guy would be watching it on the weekend. He'd be like, these people are going to Hades or whatever, you know? Seriously though, it just wasn't going to work. And then it got more interesting and more interesting. And then it started overwhelming boxing, which was crazy. Oh, the journey of it all has been crazy. But in the beginning, yeah. I mean, when you saw this, you were like, what the fuck is that? I mean, look at that. What's happening? Is this heavyweight? And what happened to the guy? Did he deflate? It just seems like. Yeah. I'm trying to think what happened. And look, no gloves. Bare knuckle.

1:07:03And then now we've come all the way around back around a bare knuckle. Two bare knuckle. With Mike Perry. Yeah. And what a great, what amazing to watch mike perry's journey where he like he was in ufc beloved by people just for wearing his all of his heart on both of his sleeves and just like and but couldn't he would always just go straight at the guy and get hit a million times but then he created this other outlet for and it just like i don't know so many great stories i mean nick turned me on our producer's the one who kind of turned me on to UFC. And we had Tate Fletcher in. And then we had. I know Tate. Yeah, he's a great guy. I know Tate really well. And then Dustin Poirier came on. And then he and I became friends.

1:07:40And then just like David Spade took me to a UFC fight. And then since then, yeah, we've gotten a go. And now they're letting me even work on the ring side and doing like a. Like commentating? Yeah, but it's like just a casual commentating like yeah just just throwing out shit yeah just me watching the fights with like dean thomas so no way if you ever come you have to be a guest we had anthony key this last time drew breeze came and was a guest dude drew breeze who like like yeah he came and was a guest. Just like, so moments like that, Gaethje came, Rogan was, just like, none of that matters, but just to be able to sit there with them that we all have this thing in common. It's amazing. So cool.

1:08:20It's amazing. It's nice to have the through line. That's what I'm saying about the motorcycles. And, you know, it's like, you have the through line, man. You have this interest. You have this shared interest. And you're like, this is fucking bitching. And yeah, the UFC stuff is huge for me and always has been. What was the last fight? I haven't been to a fight in a long time. The last fight I went to was when Holly Holmes lost to Misha Tate. Yeah. That was Nate Diaz. When Nate Diaz won or lost to conor mcgregor oh wow conor what submission by whom oh by nate so nate diaz won and holly holm lost that was a long time ago yeah that was a while ago that was the last fight that i was at and i saw joe there and all

1:09:08that oh yeah so it's just so much fun dude it. It's so much fun. And all the people that Dana has working around him, Craig Borsari, Nicole, Amber, just like there's so many people there. And now when I see them, like I just remember, like it's family. It really feels like it. That's what I was gonna say, like family. You have, I do wanna make sure that we talk about, you have a new project coming out called Whale Fall. Yes, sir. What do you wanna talk about? Well. Have you have you seen it no i haven't seen it they won't allow me to watch it no i don't i know i i think i knew that um and that's okay yeah whale fall austin abrams it's it's bitching i mean it really is like a word that i can use that you understand

1:09:48it's one of these movies it, there's a book written by Daniel Krauss, who's become a really close friend who stayed in our house for a couple of weeks, finishing his last novel. He just won the Pulitzer for the novel that he did after this, which is called Angel Down. I read this while I was doing, when I was working with Ridley in Italy on- With Ridley Scott? Yeah. With the dog stars that just came out. And I was reading this book while I was doing that movie. And I remember getting to the end of the book and I slowed it down, which I hadn't done for a long time, and slowed it down because I didn't want it to end. And then it end and I put the book on my chest and I fucking sobbed. Like, when was the last time I've done that?

1:10:28Of what you mean, well fall? Well fall, when I read the book. And then I didn't even read the script I said I'm in I'll do it and you know it's not like it's playing the dad of Austin Abrams who goes the dad dies Austin Abrams goes out to try to find his remains knowing where he went down he jumped out of a boat went down don't tell me everything no no no I won't tell you everything he gets swallowed by the whale. And then, and you're like, how do you do a movie where a dude spends 80% of the story? How do you write a book or do a movie where the guy spends 80% of the time in a whale? And it's fucking really good. Wow. And I'm pretty honest about when I see a movie, I go, eh yeah we missed a little

1:11:13bit yeah you said thrasher was bad yeah yeah it came along though it did and then and then i learned not to say shit's bad wow yeah because somebody comes up and says hey man you know my parents were junkies in this and i watched that movie and i found skateboarding and skateboarding became my skateboarding saved my life and i go okay, okay, so I'll never say, hey, were you in thrash? And I go, yeah, that movie sucked. You know what I mean? Like, why do you put that on there? That's not their experience. So Whale Fall doesn't suck. Whale Fall is really good. The directing's really good. The acting, Austin Abrams is amazing. He was in Weapons with me. Bring up a picture of Austin Abrams. Dude, I got to meet freaking Austin Butler not long ago.

1:11:54Have you ever met him? I did Dune with him. You did? I did. Dude, I have to fucking watch that. I did Dune with him. Yeah. That's him? Yeah, that's him. He looks a little skinny there, but if you look to the left, he looks a little more full-faced. Yeah. He also looks a bit like- That looks a little like full-faced. Yeah. He also looks a bit like- That looks a little like you. Really? No. What about that one? No, he looks like Timothee Chalamet. You didn't see, like Timothee Chalamet, you think so? He looks like Timothee Chalamet-y, dude. That's what he looks like in that photo. Oh God. And no Shane Austin. And also to even look close to Timothee Chalamet is pretty good. Yeah. But that's cool, bro.

1:12:33Timothee's kind of the tip top of it all right now. Timothee's a neat guy. Yeah. You haven't seen Dune? I haven't seen. Oh, I will tell you this. I tried to watch it and the freaking audio was bad on the television I was watching. Oh, sorry. So you can't do that because the audio is like everything in that movie. So. Dune 1, Dune 2, Dune 3. Oh, fuck. God. Sicario. have you seen sicario is that with marlon brando no that's with me and um wait who the other worst actor they put the other worst actor yeah um uh emily blunt that's a good movie dude sicario yeah i'll put it on stuff to consume i have a list of things to consume in my you know Yeah. Emily Blunt. That's a good movie, dude. Sicario? Yeah.

1:13:11I'll put it on stuff to consume. I have a list of things to consume in my phone. You know, I'm an actor. That's what I do. Sorry, John. What do you do? I don't know. I heard you were sober. I don't know. Bro, I'm sorry, dude. No, it's good. Okay, good. It's not bad. Sorry, dude. Yeah, I know a lot of stuff. I know you do. Okay, thank you. You're a smart dude. Okay, good. It's not bad. Sorry, dude. Yeah, I know a lot of stuff. I know you do. Okay, thank you. You're a smart dude. Thanks, dude. You are. Oh, there's another one. Thanks for bringing up another one. Only the Brave. Only the Brave with Miles Teller, dude. And Jeff Bridges. Oh, wow. There's Jeff. Miles is a good dancer. Yeah. He is. How do you know that that he just dances to the beat of his

1:13:53own drum i've seen him at places him dancing and sometimes i used to go up and talk to him if i saw him i mean miles and i get along well and i yeah we're buddies we'll text and stuff and chat about the fights yeah but now if i see him dance and i just stay and admire it yeah no i do too because you can't dance right not like him no i can't dance you can? Not like him. I can't dance either. He can enjoy himself. Yeah. I always had a tough time enjoying myself. Does that make any sense? No, it does. It makes perfect sense because I had the same thing. Like, I look like an idiot right now. Yeah. And imagine doing it on film. Oh. Where they go, hey, you're going to do this dance, and everybody goes, oh.

1:14:25Too scary. That sucks. Too scary. Josh looks like a Neanderthal trying to dance. That's not cool. I'm like, no. I know. I can't a Neanderthal trying to dance. That's not cool. I'm like, no, I can't do it. And then Miles does it and you go, Hey, that's how it's done. It can be done. Yeah. He just, and he does his own way. Yeah. I admire that. He's just able to be such an, a, in a free space. Yeah. Um, he's a good actor too. Yeah, dude, he's good. Really good. He's really good. He's so entertaining. Um, Oh, what, what about the book made you sob at the end? Was it just the ending or was it something else? No, I think it was the father-son relationship because the father in the book is super hard on the son

1:15:04and the son rejects it in a major way. And then what he needs in order to hopefully survive is exactly what the father taught him do you know what i mean so it's not like the father was just being a dick to be a dick it's just the way that came out that seemed dicky yeah you know what i'm saying yeah so that and then you realize oh the dad actually cared and it actually meant something and maybe somehow the father even knew intuitively that he was going to need it that's crazy that was cool to me that's a good writer to me like somebody who you're just reading this kind of surface thing and you're like yeah there's a really cool story and then somehow somebody reaches inside you and just fucking grabs your heart and fucking squeezes it

1:15:55surprise motherfucker surprise i'm not even a doctor that's right yeah yeah and your dad was an actor my dad is an actor is your dad's sorry he's still alive thank god yeah thank god he's still he's 86 and he's he's killing it he's doing well well james you have a nice son i'll say that thank you was your dad your dad was famous when you were growing up he he he fluctuated man he did a show called uh fuck marcus welby when I was a kid. So my parents were super poor, and they both come. My dad was kind of middle class family. My mom was super poor family from Texas. And then he got this fucking role on TV that became like the friends of that generation. It was the number one TV show for like five years.

1:16:51Really? Yeah. What was it number one TV show for like five years. Really? Yeah. What was it called? Marcus Welby. Yeah, look at, that's him. And then he fluctuated. He did a movie called Amityville Horror like maybe 20 years after that or maybe 10 years after that. So he would have money and then not have money and then have money and not have money. And he, you know, like normal actor man yeah normal creative profession it's like you know you have books that sell and books that don't sell you have movies that do well you have movies that don't do well so you saw this growing up do you think that's why you ended up on i think it's part of it i think it's part of it yeah sometimes you but my mom wrote a harley he didn't write a harley my mom rode a Harley. He didn't ride a Harley. My mom rode a Harley. Fuck yeah. With the monkey, which was probably unsafe.

1:17:34Reggie? Reggie. Reggie rode on the back. Dude, how could, I have a suspended license. How in the fuck did he get it? You do? Right now? How do you get a license? Oh, wait. You have a specific? Yeah. I had one. Did you? Yeah. 17, 18. 16, 17. 17, 18. You got suspended? Yeah. Yeah. They'll give it back. They don't like to sometimes. They don't like to give it back. They don't. And they shouldn't. 18, 16, 17, 17, 18. You got suspended? Yeah. Yeah. They'll give it back. They don't like to sometimes. They don't like to give it back. They don't. And they shouldn't, but they'll give it back. Dude, but what about, so if your dad was famous, was it weird? It was fame, like this weird thing that you felt like?

1:18:05I still feel it, man. I mean, look, if we- But did you feel like you're like, was it a big thing to your dad or was the acting a big thing? Is that a weird question? Yeah, but it was my mom. Like, I don't mean to demean my dad, but my mom would call studio heads when my dad didn't get something and say, are you stupid? Yeah. Have you seen my husband? Like he's six, four, super handsome. Like, why would you use this other guy when you could use him? So they were all talking about my mom. Cause my mom i said had no filter she was everything that's amazing so she would just call and just you know and and they would talk to each other and be like have you gotten a call from this girl like oh yeah i talked to her last week and and my dad not all his jobs but

1:18:47he got some jobs from that you know what i mean. But fame was like, I remember my dad doing really well at some point and he would get really irritated with the attention. Yeah. With the attention. With public attention. Some people eat it up. You know? Do you? I think there was a time where you were excited about it. Yeah. You want people to know who you are. Yeah. And then there's a time, like, I think it got to a point where it was kind of, maybe I don't put scary as the word, but, um, you know what I miss? Like I used to, one thing I even used to like about comedy was if it was a surprise to people. Yeah. Because when people don't know that you're that people haven't seen you. That's what I mean. Then you can, you have the opportunity to surprise them with something

1:19:36that you say and that disappears. So then you have to work in a different space with humor. Yeah. And maybe with anything. Which may be cool because you're having to reinvent your own humor. Yeah. So that's cool because that's creative. Yeah. And you have to like redesign this whole thing. But at the same time, it's kind of a bummer because everybody knows you. If you do too many fricking podcasts or too many interviews, people know you so well that what could you possibly do on the stage or on the screen that people are like, I had no idea. And I thought you were a paraplegic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? And you're playing pre-F what i mean you're playing pre-fontaine and dude i think sometimes you start to like i don't know i think there's moments where it's like

1:20:21i i don't like you don't even like like i don't know if it's like you don't even like yourself that you put out there or something or it's like you want to be something different. I don't know. It's all, I think a lot of it's been kind of interesting. Here's what I do think about it. A lot of times I try not to attach myself to it too much. When I do, that gets kind of like, then I'm really stuck kind of in some ego space. Yeah. And I try to just be like, okay, this is an interesting experiment that God kind of has me in. I get to see what this is like to have popularity. I get to see what it's like. Yeah, I'll experiment with this. Yes. I'll experiment my reaction to it. I'll experiment with, yeah, see, that's when it's cool.

1:21:01Yeah, but it's not like, I don't want it to determine, like there were times when I was struggling with sobriety and I didn't even want to talk about it on the podcast because- Yeah, because you were struggling with it. But I'm okay with sobriety and I didn't even want to talk about it on the podcast because because you were struggling with, but I, but I'm okay with that part, but I didn't want, this is about alcoholism, I think, but it's like, I was afraid that, well, what if people respond to that in some way? And then my alcoholistic mind or whatever starts either relapsing or doing something like that just to get people to then like pay attention. I got it. It was like, I don't want to like,

1:21:37what if I play into this public persona? Yes. So they'll keep liking me or they'll care, or I can surprise them in this way. Right. I lived on that, man. I lived on the stories that I wouldn't even remember, but I lived on because it made me, it materialized me. It made me seen. It was like, fuck, do you know what you did yesterday? I was like, no, what? And they were like, dude, you know what I mean? And then you go, oh, okay. That's who I am. Like me talking about my mom now. And you're fascinated. I'm like, I'll create my version of that. And then to not do that, you have to create this other thing. And then, you know, like you, you're obviously really good at what you do. And people are like, oh, you're good at that.

1:22:23You're not just good at cocaine. Yeah. You're good at that other stuff. Well, tell me a little bit more about what you're saying because I'm a little confused on it. Yeah. I think that fame, what fame can do is define you in a way, and I don't want to be defined. I don't want to be defined as an alcoholic. I don't want to be defined as famous. I don't want to be defined even as an actor. I realize it's what I do. I don't want to be defined as anything. What is that? I want to keep discovering shit. I want to keep learning shit. I want to keep learning shit. I want to keep surprising myself. If I decided to quit acting tomorrow and I decided to become a full-time trader, if I wanted to be a photographer, I wanted to do this, I want to be allowed to do that.

1:23:02I don't want to be imprisoned by some idea that I've finally been accepted as this one thing because that's not my goal is to be accepted. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. As you're saying, I'm thinking about it. I don't want to be defined. I don't want to be defined. I don't want you to know who I am because I don't know who I am. Right. But then what happens when you finally know who you are or you don't care as much how people perceive you? And then you're like, I'm good with that. It's like with fame, I say there's one thing. With fame, I've realized this, is that every person who looks at me with some kind of an idea that it's elevated, that what I do is elevated, they think that as an actor who's doing well is walking a perpetual red carpet

1:23:52waving at a perpetual audience. Like you don't do real shit. Right. Like you don't change the chicken like shavings and with the shit all over it and put it in the bag and then take the bag to the trash yourself. Right. You don't pet the pig. You just eat the pork. That's exactly right. Yeah. That's exactly right. And you go, no, I don't want that. And then people do that. Then they start thinking, oh, that's what I got to do as a famous actor. I got to- I got to overreact. I got to just eat the pork. Fuck the pig. I don't even want to see the pig. I'm hungry. Can you go do that thing that you do to prepare my... You know what I mean? And I just don't want to do that, especially in my profession,

1:24:37because I like your profession. You're a mirror. You throw shit back in people's face, and they can laugh at it. They can laugh at their foibles. They can laugh at how absurd we are and the shit that we say and the stuff that we do and i think that actors do the same thing in story it's like yeah do you know what i mean yeah when you see an actor do something that you just can't and they are a scene that does something that you can't even you don't even know why you're crying yeah you don't know why you're laughing yeah you ever done that thing where you're watching a movie why you're crying. Yeah. You don't know why you're laughing. Yeah. You ever done that thing where you're watching a movie and you're like cry laughing?

1:25:19You're like, so I'm moved, but at the same time it's... Family man. Yeah. Really? Have you seen that with Nicolas Cage? Yeah, of course. Yeah. That's old school. You love that movie. I love it. Yeah, it's good. See, everybody has old school. You love that movie. I love it. Yeah, it's good. See, everybody has their thing. I love that movie. That's why you can't say like thrashing, ew. You're like, I don't know. I'm going to go watch that. And we have those movies. I have those books. We have those movies. We have those seeing Eddie Murphy for the first time. I remember when I was in my room in Santa Barbara and I had this little TV, this little, with the antenna. antenna oh yeah you know and i'm watching what was it

1:25:56delirious for the first time i'm like what the fuck oh yeah this is amazing oh yeah it felt like something like you couldn't even get into the world dude my we had my bro we had a tv like that and i would step and watch stuff sometimes and my brother would be like, turn off the fucking TV. Or I will fucking hide your legs in your asshole, right? He would say stuff like that because he was creative. But then, here's what he would happen. Dude, this is what he would do to me. He'd be like, you can watch it but you have to fucking keep your eyes closed, dude. And he'd be like, so dude, I would- More creative. Crazy. So I'd have to have the volume on the lowest thing as possible i would be this close to the fucking yeah dude watching a

1:26:39fucking program while he fucking older brother yes of course well he tells me he's awake but really he'd fucking dozed off in a second later but i couldn't tell because he was like it was dark in there. That's hilarious. Fuck. Stuff like that was so good. Louisiana. Stuff like that is so good. You look back on it. You're like, that was, that was a good time. That wasn't a bad time. Steal the fucking balcony. We're fucking, we were, we were making stories at least like, even though I was like, I don't know. There were parts of me that had to come alive so early, I think, cause it's things were so uncomfortable and I'm glad, I think I'm glad that they were a lot. It took me kind of a long time to get there.

1:27:14Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I had a lot of resentment. How old are you? I'm 46. Yeah. So I'm almost your age. No. But getting close, though. 12 years. You're 12 years older than me? Yeah. God. Yeah, dude. You fucking look good. You know? And I wish you were. Boy, chill, bro. I wish you were. Boy, chill, bro. I wish you were a freaking woman. And I don't even know what that means, dude. I got to get some help. We should just stop it there. I don't know. We're almost done. I wish you were a woman. Thank you for joining us. This is the Theo Vaughn podcast. I do want to talk about one thing. I want to talk about, like, so I'm going through the steps again right now. Yeah, right on. With my sponsor. Yeah.

1:27:55And did you, like, I was just thinking about resentments. Did you ever have yourself as a resentment? Of course. Oh my God. Probably the biggest one. That's crazy, dude. Yeah. Why? That's come, that's. That's come up for me. Yeah. And somebody said something in a meeting the other day, dude. And they said, I'm unacceptable to myself. And I had never heard those words before. And it was like, man, that's a lot of, and I'm not in self-pity. I'm just looking at it. No, no, no. Just looking at it. Yeah. But I'm like, dude, that is a lot of like- Self-loathing. I've just, it gets like, I'm unacceptable to myself. that is a lot of like- Self-loathing. I'm just, yeah, it's like I'm unacceptable to myself.

1:28:33Yeah, but you know- It's interesting. It's super interesting. And I heard, and I've told this story before, but I'll tell you a story that I loved and it shifted something in me. And Tony Hopkins told me this story, right? Who very proudly wears his sobriety on his sleeve. Yeah, I've heard him speak before. And talks about it and will be in Instagram or whatever, which I love that Tony Hopkins is on Instagram. He's an artist. He's great. He loves, like, it's not even like, you know, Instagram is this thing where you're trying to project some image and that people believe. He doesn't give a fuck. Yeah. He's just like, this is me. Oh, I'll get a sequel. And look it, now he's just like wrote all these songs.

1:29:10Like now he's not even focused on acting. He's like doing these compositions and these philharmonics are doing his music. It's just the coolest human being ever. But he told me, he was like, how great is it that we're like this? And I go, what does that mean? He was like, we're just alcoholic. We're just angry and we're edgy and we're just dark. And I was like, is that a good thing? Is that like, I've always been like i always perceived that as like that it's shitty and again and he goes no because given no direction and no tools we create more harm and hurt than normal people than most people but given a few tools we can have a bigger impact than most people, given that we have the drive, that we have the motor, we have the motor of alcoholics.

1:29:58I'm like, fuck yeah. But I heard that and I thought, this is an 80 year old guy telling me this shit. That's it. And he's British as well. What does that mean? It just means he was fucking raised with a fucking eating cadbury eggs and everything over there he's welsh he's welsh he's welsh like like richard burton which the welsh are different are they welsh are darker are they yeah man oh that's good they're like great poets dylan thomas was welsh i gotta study up on them. Yeah, man. I'll send you a couple books. I'm going to send you my book. Will you? Yes. Of course I will. Great. We'll put it up on our shelf, dude. Okay, good. On that note, I do want to say, I read some of the, you were friends with Cormac McCarthy or you, that you knew him.

1:30:44Yeah. Yeah. I was with him the night he died. No way, dude. Yeah. It was me, his son, his ex-wife and him did he live in tennessee no he lived in santa fe new mexico and i was there working i was doing a series and i would come in and see him and at his house i have i have his typewriter i have his pool table wow his couch shit that he gave me after you know it's cool it's cool he's's cool. He was a good dude. I liked the hard guys. Yeah. I liked the guys that like, you think that like Cormac and the shit that he wrote is so severe and so, you know, but then he was the nicest guy and he's so smart. 20,000 books he left. Wow. When he died and they were archiving his books and he had like a thousand books on math

1:31:33or a thousand or 300 books on whales you're like oh you're a freak i love that talk about not being defined and plus that's another guy at which i think there was a parallel even though we didn't talk about it is that the first and tell all the pretty horses which i think is his sixth novel or his seventh that people had maybe bought maybe 1200 books of each novel so nobody bought his shit wow and he kept going and it's kind of like me as an actor like yeah i started with the goonies which was cool but then after that, it was downhill. Nobody cared. Nobody cared. Oh, I was singing Shirley Temp. Yeah, exactly. That's what I mean. For free near windows that wouldn't open. Dude, like now you're 46 and things are good.

1:32:21You know, it's great. I know sometimes I can't believe God's grace in my life, even just in little moments. And when I'm in that space, it's just, everything's, it feels okay. I like what you said earlier, which is just like everything's an experiment. As long as I'm malleable, I'm like wet clay, and I'm like, yeah, good. Oh, that's interesting. Oh, look at that. That's cool. Yeah. Not like this. Not contracting and not like that. You know? Just like, ah, that's interesting. It's just like it's all kind of fascinating. Going to UFC is fascinating. Getting up and trying to make people laugh is fascinating. Doing a movie and trying to make it work is fascinating. Yeah, dude, it's so true. It's all like human shit.

1:33:01Yeah. Yesterday I had to do a solo episode of a podcast and I was so scared. And then I was like, dude, I'm going to have, let me remember why I started this. Let me go and try to have some fun. Yeah. Instead of fucking live in this, whatever cage I'm fucking always over here, welding these fucking bars and screaming through them. That's cool. You did an episode by yourself? Yeah. We started this podcast and we did the first hundred episodes. It was just me by myself talking. And then we started having friends on and stuff like that. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, it was fun. That's cool. It's been a good journey, dude. It's interesting. He had all those books on whales, and you ended up, and your new project is called Whale Fall.

1:33:42And I got super inspired by that, and then I wrote a new story that we're going to do in January called The Fisherman. And then after that, which is like, this is full circle with the rat. Then Jeremy Renner and I, there's a story that's a true story that took place in Montauk about a guy, two guys that went out on a boat fishing in this Montauk fishing community. One guy fell asleep. One dude fell off the boat. And this guy was looking for this guy for 12 and a half hours. This dude was just like a rat waiting in the water. No way guy was looking for this guy for 12 and a half hours. And this dude was just like a rat waiting in the water. No way he was going to survive. No way he was going to be

1:34:17found. It was like a 200 mile, you know, this radius. And you just like, there's no way you're going to find the dude. And he had no floating device. He had no nothing. Dang. And he survived like a rat 12 and a half hours of swimming in place until he was found right at the last second he probably was sharks surrounded by sharks so i'm gonna be the i'm gonna be the rat and jeremy's gonna be the guy looking for me dude much easier job renner has i'll say that bro taking the easier this guy i'll do it with bro. Taking the easy with this guy. I'll do it with Brolin. That sounds fun. You're fucking soaking wet every set. I like the whale stuff, though. I like that. Wow. That's a lighthouse. That's the nautical shit.

1:35:09Did you get that done after that? I did. Let's go. I did. It meant that much? I mean, it meant that much, and it was a guy who had passed that it was in his honor. Let me see it one more time, man. You already showed it once. It was in his honor. I'm looking at the art, so I'm not looking at your body. Okay, now you're making it different. Oh, dude, that's cool, bro. I mean, it just is what it is, and I don't have to look at it. Everybody else has to look at it. But I know I'm carrying it, and that's all I give a shit about. Yeah. It's a good reminder for me. And there's a great word, arete. It's a Greek word that this guy gave me, and it means excellence in everything that you do. And then the five birds of my family.

1:35:50So that's cool. That's a family craft experiment experimenting that's it why get a tattoo i don't know why the fuck not yeah i don't have i mean i have these but i don't really have it i had all my tattoos removed yeah when i was 30 yeah didn't need them anymore and then this one came and sure why not do it yeah experiment man i love it um nice spending time bro you too dude nice to get to catch up nice to get to say hello and to spend some time together man uh i've heard you speak before uh yeah i think it was at bread and roses yeah right on and we know lodge yeah we know lies dude who's such a sweet guy he is a sweet guy i gotta check in with him. I'll text him a picture of us when we're done.

1:36:33Yeah, good. But yeah, thanks so much, Josh. Thanks for just being a creative. Thanks for sticking with your art. Thanks, buddy. That's cool because now you can tell stories that are going to inspire the rest of us. Thanks for telling me about whale fall and just that it meant something to you because, yeah, sometimes it's like you don't know who else is looking for that little piece of connection between like or something about a father and a son. And they're going to hear about that, and that might be something for them. Exactly. So, yeah, getting out here today to be a bridge for little moments, that's pretty cool. Yeah, I agree. So, Josh Brolin, thank you so much, man. Thank you, brother.

1:37:04Yep. Much love. Now I'm just floating on the breeze And I feel I'm falling like these leaves I must be cornerstone Oh, but when I reach that ground I'll share this peace of mind I found I can feel it in my bones But it's gonna take a little