Caleb Flynn - Part 1: The Murder of Ashley Flynn | #475

0:00Everyone talks about how challenging it is to raise kids. But what about protecting them? Outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks, baby gates, where do you even start? Well, protecting your home and auto is a great place to start. Progressive offers customised coverage options, so you can be sure that you have the right coverage for you and your loved ones. They're basically the outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks and baby gates of insurance. Don't wait. Get your quote today at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company. Affiliates and other insurers. Not available in all states. Who here picked a bank at 16? Probably because it was the one that their parents used and then never looked back.

0:39I know I did. I didn't really think about what I wanted my bank to do for me. Or what they could offer me that other banks couldn't. That's where Chime comes in. Chime is changing the way that people think about banking. Chime offers the most rewarding fee-free banking, all with no overdraft fees, no monthly fees, no minimum balance fees. You get 5% cash back on Chime card in a category of your choice, like gas or groceries, all while building credit through regular everyday spending with no credit check. You can also grow your money faster with a savings rate that's nine times the national average. And if you're ever in a pinch, SpotMe lets you overdraft up to $200 fee-free. Join the millions who are already banking fee-free with

1:23America's number one choice for banking. Head to Chime.com slash red-handed. That's Chime.com slash red-handed. Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and ChimeCard provided by Chime's bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details. Caleb Flynn, a former American Idol contestant turned worship leader, found himself at the heart of a murder trial in September this year. The 38-year-old stood accused of killing his wife of 16 years and the mother of his two children, Ashley Flynn. And it really did feel like a case where the motive would perhaps do all the talking. And that's because Caleb had been having an affair with a woman,

2:20another worship leader from his own church, who was almost half his age. His mistress, Aaliyah Botner and he, exchanged a staggering 107,000 messages in just one year. That's nearly 300 a day. In these texts, they shared notions of undying love, AI-generated love songs, and dreams of how they both wanted Ashley dead. Aaliyah claimed that she thought they were just joking, venting about the wife that Caleb couldn't leave without losing everything. But then, on the 16th of February 2026, Ashley was mysteriously shot to death in the family home. The very same night that Caleb claimed he was finally going to tell her that he wanted a divorce. Was it a coincidence, like his defence would later claim? Or was it, as the prosecution

3:12put it, like Caleb winning the lottery without even buying a ticket? I'm Saruti. I'm Hannah, and this is Red Handed, where this week we're jumping into the Caleb Flynn case that finally wrapped up last month in Ohio. And we usually like to get these timely cases out on time, but we've had a jam-packed October Halloween spooky season life roster at the moment. Caleb Flynn, of all people, was not going to disrupt that. But we lied. Here we are. We're here now. It's November and we're here now. So let's rewind to the 16th of February earlier this year in Tip City, Ohio. It was 2.31am when Caleb Flynn called 911. He claimed that his wife, Ashley, had been shot by an intruder. Oh my God. Miami County, 911. He claimed that his wife, Ashley, had. Please, please hurry. Please, please hurry. What are you seeing?

4:32My wife, she's got two shots to her head. There's blood everywhere. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Sir, please, please. Ma'am, I need you to take a deep breath, okay? Do you still see anybody in the house? No, the door to the garage was wide open. Please, hurry, please. Oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God. My daughters are here. Where is she at? She's in the bed. Are you with her? I am in the room. I'm looking at her. Yes, please. You're going to have the door locked? We have the door to the garage locked, but he's in the house. Yes, please, wake up, wake up. Where is that room out in the house? My partner's getting them dispatched, okay, but I need you to answer my questions so I can get you help as fast as I can, okay?

5:19What question? Where are you guys at in the house? I'm in the bedroom with her right now. Okay. My daughter's in their room. So you're not, you are not with the children? I was with the children when it happened. Okay, but you're not with them now? No, they're in their room. They're not even awake. Oh, my God. Sir, please, please, please. They are heading that way, okay? I need you to take a deep breath for me. Are you hearing anything? No, I rubbed her leg and said her name. She's not answering. Your daughter's not answering you? No, hold on, I'm putting on my shirt. What did you say? What did you say? Your daughter's not answering you? No, they're in the other... They're across the room. Okay.

6:14They're in their room. Okay. Are you hearing any kind of noise inside the house? No. No, her face is... Oh, sir, her face is... Why is God going free to me? Okay. Whose face? No, no, her face is, oh, sir, her face is white as good ghost, please. Okay, whose face? My wife's face. Your wife's face? Yes, the one who was shot. She was what? Shot, I said. Okay, where was she shot at? In the head, in the head. I hope there's blood everywhere. Okay, is she breathing? Okay, she's not responding to you? Okay, do you see anybody in the house now? No. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Okay, do you see anybody in the house now? No, it's pitch black, and the doors are locked. The door to leading to the garage door was wide open when I ran in there.

7:22Okay, do you see any kind of vehicles? Um, no, no. Wait, no. The door, there's a side door in my garage door that's open. Oh, my God. Okay. Okay, I need you to just take a deep breath for me. Okay, they're getting to you as quick as they can. Is that door still open? Yes, it is. Okay. What do I do? Is she breathing at all? I don't think so. There's two shots to my head. Okay. If you are comfortable, I want you to go and find the cloth, and I want you to put a cloth on that gunshot wound okay yes like it's out but do not apply direct pressure to it just put it on that blood wound okay okay I need you just take a deep breath for me, okay? Okay. Just get that cloth, and I want you to put it on that wound,

8:32but don't apply direct pressure to it, okay? They're coming to you as quick as they can, okay? I just laid it on her head. Okay. The juveniles, are they okay? Have you checked on them? I haven't checked on them. Okay. Can you go check on the juveniles, are they okay? Have you checked on them? I haven't checked on them. Okay, can you go check on the juveniles for me? The police is here. The police is here. Okay, can you go check on the juveniles for me? The cops just left. They just left. Okay, I need you to go check on the juveniles for me, okay? Okay, okay? Okay. They're still sleeping. Okay, you still see them breathing? You don't see any wounds on them? No, no. The cop just pulled away. Sir, sir, sir.

9:20Sir, the cop is here. Okay, I want you to... Okay, open the door for him so he can get into her, okay? Okay, he's coming to me. Sir! Please, sir! Let's just ignore, for the sake of it, that the operator keeps calling him ma'am all the way through. We only played you guys, like, five minutes of that 911 call because, like, it's so painful, honestly. But it goes on for so long, and he keeps calling him ma'am and he never corrects him and i'm like why it's what happened in robert wong as well oh yeah actually very weird but even without that it is quite an odd call the operator doesn't seem to understand for quite a long time what's actually happening and there's a very confusing lack of urgency my mum told me last night right that christa pike

10:14they called 9-1-1 three times before they sent anyone down there because they thought it was a joke they were like we've got this execution it's just not work and they're like are you having me on and then they ring again and they're like, no, you don't. Three times. I thought 911 calls were like Disney hugs. They can't hang up first. I think I can understand how it would sound to a 911 operator who probably gets pranked a lot. Probably top of the list is, I'm down at the state penitentiary and we're trying to kill this woman and she won't go. Reallybrow highbrow pranks you know what i mean wow that's wild that's wild but yeah like obviously in that clip you guys just heard it's really really clear to

10:56hear like for ages the operator's just like yeah it's like what's going on and you're like what the actual fuck it's it's only halfway through as you just heard, that the operator finally says, and I'm only talking about this because it's just so like, it's so jarred. Like when I first heard the 911 call that you guys just listened to, I was really confused about what I was even hearing. It's only halfway through that you hear the operator there finally say, who? Your wife? She was shot? Where? And you're like, Caleb Flynn already told you that his wife had been shot as soon as the call was answered. So it's really weird. I don't really understand what's happening here. Maybe it's because Caleb was being so hysterical and he isn't totally clear

11:38on what he's saying that it's not obvious to the operator. But it also didn't really feel like the operator at first was even trying to get to the bottom of what was going on i don't know it's very very weird but as you just heard it took so long for the operator to finally understand and to tell caleb flynn what he should do to try and help his wife ashley like that goes on for so long and like yeah there's it takes a very long time for them to get to the point of like, okay, you need to apply pressure. You need to do this until the police and EMTs get there. Very odd. And then it felt quite odd that Caleb Flynn needed so many prompts to go and check on his own children. He seems much more concerned about getting his story out.

12:21And his story is about which doors were open and how the intruder could have got inside. It's a lot more concerned with door semantics than he is on checking on his girls, who, by the way, are only 10 and 12 years old. Hannah and Cerruti from Red Handed here. And we'd love to tell you about a podcast that we think you'll enjoy. Lived to Tell. As true crime podcasters, we hear stories all the time about stabbings, shootings, robberies and, you know, mayhem, that comes with the genre. But Lived to Tell is about people who have been through these situations and lived to tell. And it's not just crimes. There's also tornadoes, volcanoes and falling from great heights on live to tell host caitlin van mole talks to people who have been through the most harrowing

13:12situations and come out alive plus all the aftermath that comes with having your life turned completely upside down because surviving the worst things imaginable doesn't end with rescue listen to live to tell wherever you get your podcasts and follow the show on Instagram or TikTok at Live to Tell Podcast. Did you know that if your spouse goes missing and you don't tell anyone, that's not necessarily a crime? That surprising fact is at the heart of the brand new season of Bear Brook, the critically acclaimed true crime podcast from New Hampshire Public Radio. I'm your host, Jason Moon. In this season, Bear Brook investigates another New Hampshire mystery. A Christmas tree farmer with dementia vanishes. His wife

13:54never reports him missing. Can he still be found? Don't miss it. Follow Bear Brook wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone talks about how challenging it is to raise kids. But what about protecting them? Outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks, baby gates, where do you even start? Well, protecting your home and auto is a great place to start. Progressive offers customised coverage options so you can be sure that you have the right coverage for you and your loved ones. They're basically the outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks and baby gates of insurance. Don't wait. Get your quote today at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company, affiliates and other insurers. Not available in all states. Who here picked a bank at 16?

14:39Probably because it was the one that their parents used and then never looked back. I know I did. I didn't really think about what I wanted my bank to do for me, or what they could offer me that other banks couldn't. That's where Chime comes in. Chime is changing the way that people think about banking. Chime offers the most rewarding fee-free banking, all with no overdraft fees, no monthly fees, no minimum balance fees. You get 5% cash back on Chime card in a category of your choice, like gas or groceries, all while building credit through regular everyday spending with no credit check. You can also grow your money faster with a savings rate that's nine times the national average. And if you're ever in a pinch, SpotMe lets you overdraft up to $200 fee-free.

15:21Join the millions who are already banking fee-free with America's number one choice for banking. Head to Chime.com slash red-handed. That's Chime.com slash red-handed. Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details. Everyone talks about how challenging it is to raise kids. But what about protecting them? Outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks, baby gates, where do you even start? Well, protecting your home and auto is a great place to start. Progressive offers customized coverage options so you can be sure that you have the right coverage for you and your loved ones.

16:06They're basically the outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks and baby gates of insurance. Don't wait. Get your quote today at Progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company, affiliates and other insurers. Not available in all states. Who here picked a bank at 16? Probably because it was the one that their parents used and then never looked back. I know I did. I didn't really think about what I wanted my bank to do for me or what they could offer me that other banks couldn't. That's where Chime comes in. Chime is changing the way that people think about banking. Chime offers the most rewarding fee-free banking all with no overdraft fees, no monthly fees, no minimum balance fees. You get 5% cash back on ChimeCard in a category of your choice,

16:49like gas or groceries, all while building credit through regular everyday spending with no credit check. You can also grow your money faster with a savings rate that's nine times the national average. And if you're ever in a pinch, Spot Me lets you overdraft up to $200 fee-free. Join the millions who are already banking fee-free with America's number one choice for banking. Head to Chime.com slash red-handed. That's Chime.com slash red-handed. Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and ChimeCard provided by Chime's bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms And he doesn't even know that the killer isn't still in the house. Because as Caleb will maintain throughout, he never saw or heard the intruder.

17:46So how does he know that the danger has passed his wife has just been shot in his own house and his own children are in the other room but he's not going to check on them he also says here and you guys need to remember this that he was with his kids when it happened that That's what you heard on the 911 call. He says, when it happened, I was with my kids. But he also says that he didn't hear any gunshots. He makes that very clear, which again is odd as it's not a huge house. It's really not a huge house. It's also a bungalow. So it's all on one level. How did you not hear anything? And if he didn't hear any gunshots, why then did he run into the master bedroom to check on Ashley, as he also claims? And also, what does he mean when

18:33it happened? I get that she's dead, so something must have happened, but how do you know where you were? As we're going to see, his story changes a lot lot where he says he was during that evening changes a lot it's very very confusing a lot of the points in this story change later so just remember what he says initially and we'll come back to it the police body cam footage from this night is worth taking a look at as well if you're just listening you won't get the full effect of watching his face during these clips so take yourself to YouTube. Yeah, please come and watch this bit. Like, just watch these two episodes on YouTube because it is going to be a two-parter. Even if you don't typically do that, like, his face in the trial and his face on this body cam footage is just priceless.

19:22It really is. Come look, much, much. What do I do with my daughters? What do I do with my daughters? It's just priceless. It really is. I'm not the first one. What do I do with my daughters? Right now? Right now I need you to breathe, okay? Do you have any family that you can call? Okay, where's your phone at? Do you want to call family? Hold on. Corey, do you watch him? Yeah. Yep. Oh, that door is open over there. That back door is open. After the police arrived, Caleb sat on the floor of the living room crying and throwing up. He then called both his mum and Ashley's mum to tell them what happened, and here it is. Mum, mum, mum! Nick, what's your 30? Mom, Ashley's dead. You're okay? Mom, he's just in a coma.

20:32Ashley's dead. She's dead. Someone, someone broke in. Just, he's dead. Mom, mom! She's gone. She's gone. It shot her. She's gone. She's gone! I was with the girls. Oh my god! Oh my god! Mommy! Mommy! She God! Jesus God! I can't breathe. The girls don't even know yet. They're still sleeping. I don't know. what to do. The police are here. Good morning. Go ahead. I think it's for fucking ahead. That's right. I don't know what to do. I can't breathe. I can't sleep. I'm not in my own family. Yes, sir. All right. That's my girl.

22:02I'm sure. Thank God, Mom. You're my sweetheart. Why, You guys are so cute. I love you were going to the other door. Jill, Ashley's gone. She's gone. Someone broke in and shot her. She's gone. She's gone. Yeah, she's gone. Yes, yes they did. Yes. The cops are here and they said no one can come in the house, but they said I could call you. OK. OK. She said she'd call you. OK. She just won't be able to come inside, OK? He is inconsolable. And Jill, who's just lost her daughter, is looking after Caleb.

23:32She tells the police that she's worried he's going into shock and even asks them to get him a blanket. In the body cam footage, you can see that the police look slightly baffled and they're trying to figure out what is going on. But Caleb Flynn is crying so much in the embrace of his mother-in-law that he can barely get his words out. In this body cam footage, we can also see the layout of the house and we can see the garage door. Caleb told police that the door from the garage into the house was wide open. So he thinks that's how the killer got in now just to be clear the big doors to the garage so the doors through which you'd like drive your car through they're closed he never says they were open but there's a side door into the garage that then leads through

24:20another door into the family home that he says that external side door in the garage was partially open. Now, the police searched the property and immediately began spreading out into the streets around the house, looking for any sign of an intruder. But some of the first responders on the scene were immediately suspicious of Caleb, as well they should be. They obviously have to investigate the intruder theory, but they also kept a close eye on him. Something you can hear them discussing on the body cam footage. And the police do get a lot of shit in this case for running a poor investigation, and there are absolutely elements that were badly handled. Not that it's an excuse because the Ohio Bureau of Investigation

25:04and the FBI both got involved to support the city police department very early on but this is an area with very low crime rates and barely any homicides the chief of police said that in the 24 years he had been a cop there had been all of six murders that his department had handled that That's wild. Yeah. So an understandable lack of experience when it came to the initial investigation and the way that it was carried out. And that did leave some gaping holes for prosecutors at trial. Now, Kayla Flynn's defence team would later argue that the police on the night focused way too much on him and that they didn't look for an intruder. But that's just not true. The police used drones, they had sniffer dogs, they had officers out canvassing the area,

25:53but they found nothing. Does that mean there was no intruder? Of course not. But they certainly looked for one. In the garage, the police also discovered that Caleb's truck was unlocked and the center console of the truck was open which is the box in between the driver's seat and the passenger seat you put your elbow on it if you're cool the cops asked caleb if he had any guns and he said yes he did he had a shotgun which he kept in the house and a nine millimeter handgun which he kept in his truck in the centre console. But now it was gone. And it would later transpire that Ashley had indeed been shot with a 9mm handgun. And, look, there is a scene from the body cam footage that people have really jumped on.

26:46It's worth mentioning. I'll talk you guys through it. Basically, the police are asking him this about if he's got any guns in the house. And he goes, yes, there's a shotgun in the house. It's like in a wardrobe or something inside. And he goes, and there's a nine millimeter handgun. And he goes, and he pulls his trigger finger twice when he's talking about the handgun. And people are like, the people are like the body language the body language of it all and look maybe maybe people are like he doesn't pull the trigger on a shotgun but you'd have to go like with that but he does he does pull his finger twice when he when he's talking about the handgun and the handgun is missing as she was shot with a nine

27:22millimeter handgun there's a lot more evidence in here that we might as well spend our two weeks discussing rather than focusing on that. But I'm not saying it's not eye-catching. But is it indicative of guilt? Not for me. So anyway, it looked a lot like the killer, according to Caleb anyway, had broken into the garage through the side door, opened his truck, found his gun, walked into the house, gone into the master bedroom, or without waking anyone, including the family's two dogs, shot Ashley, and then silently and very quickly fled, again without the dogs going mad or Caleb seeing or hearing them. And we know that the dogs didn't bark Caleb seeing or hearing them. And we know that the dogs didn't bark because, well, Caleb says that he never heard them bark.

28:13And also because Ashley was shot in her sleep. So she wasn't disturbed or woken up by the dogs barking because somebody's come into the house. The morning of Ashley's murder, Caleb was taken in for questioning. He denied that he and Ashley had any issues in their marriage, and he even offered up two potential suspects. Sorry, I just want to record everything, okay? Just so you're aware, you do not have to be here, okay? If you want to get up and walk out of here, that's perfectly possible. Sorry, you know how to get out of here? Yes. Well, I'm just going to show you. This door is not locked. You can straight up open it. Okay. So, if at any point I'm done talking or leave, you have that right.

29:15Okay. This is recorded. So, you know, just so you're aware of everything, I don't want to, you know, sit here and, you know, feel like you don't know your rights, okay? With this, can you say your name and date of birth? Yeah. What? 515-86. Okay. And I'm also Detective Morgan with the City Police Department. And it is currently 428th morning on February 16th. My job is to try to figure out, you know, what happened this evening. Yeah. All right. Can you tell me, leading up to you guys going to bed, my girls, did Ashley stay home because the girls were sick? And I got home, girls were watching it take two. The normal day, Ashley did go to Target to return something. Was that the only thing she did through the day?

30:32Yeah. She told me, and I talked to the girl, it was Christmas, and I had services Saturday and Sunday, so I live worship both nights. On Saturday, she said that, she said, Galentine's with the girls, Valentine's with the girls. With your daughter? Yes, while I was at church. And she said that they were dancing to something and she saw a car in the driveway and um, This was kind of yes and i even talked to my girl about it tonight before they went to bed because i was asking them she said she saw a car in the driveway and then there was a through our glass window she could see someone just staying there but not knocking on the door just standing there so she opened it and some guy went into some weird sales pitch for America.

31:30And this was on Saturday? That what? I don't know. She did say, she did, yes. And she said he didn't have a, like, a salesman shirt or the logos. And he gave her a flag and said, will you wave this for my boss? And so she waved it and then he's like, okay, I'll be right back. And she said, well, no, I'm going to go. Hey, we got busy. We're busy and that was it. That's the only thing I know. Okay. It's the ordinary, you know, you date. Yeah. Then I talked to my girls about it tonight, asking them if they, you know, today... Take your time. Okay, I know this is a horrible thing and I don't want you to feel like I'm... I don't want you to feel like I don't understand that. Okay. That was Saturday.

32:32I came home back to church and we just watched movies. The girls slept in our room. We poked our mattresses. In our room? Yeah. You see how they in our room. Yeah. We slept with them. Yeah. Sunday, today, or yesterday, I left to go to church around 7. And was there. There's two services at 9. I was at home around 12.30 at 31 and was home. I did go exercise at the YMCA tonight, but I was home hoping. I got home from church. I guess the girls were, my youngest had a fever. They both have coughs, so they didn't go to church today. And Ashley stayed home with them. And then we did nothing. They were sick, we played Mario Kart. They watched It Takes Two and I don't, another movie, I don't know what it was called.

33:43Ashley went to Target while I stayed. She got back, I went to the YMCA. Got back, and we talked to girls in about what time? I think it was about around 8.30. Okay, 8.30. So what time were you at the Y? I don't know, six, 37, I don't remember. Okay. Well, just about, yeah, just about 6.30. You know, I work out for an hour. I just walked on the track tonight. Yeah? No, I guess her mom texted me that she forgot her. So, and she left her phone at Target. The Target call, my mother-in-law, 247. No, that's me. That's my colleague. Me. Do you mind if I take a look at the wall? So let's actually get home with her phone, okay? No, that's just you and I'm sick. Okay. Do you mind if I take a look at the wall?

34:58No, no, no. Do you have any text messages from her? I don't even tell her. I text messages all the time. She sends me a million pictures and it takes up my storage. Oh, okay. I don't know. You're okay if I take a look? Yes, I am. Yep. Do you know of anybody that has problems with you guys or any animosity or anything like that? She, she needs it light-hearted. I mean, look, is it odd that he's offering up suspects? No, because if he wasn't offering up any suspects, then people might also be like, what, he has no idea who could have done this so like i don't think you can really win in this but like the suspects he offers up is so weird like when he's describing that first man and he's like yeah he's long hair and he turned up at the house and he was scaring ashley and he

35:55was like doing a sales pitch for america i'm like what does that mean what the fuck does that mean i don't know and then the other person just being like a disgruntled church goer. Like we've tried to clean up the audio there as much as possible, but the interview audio is really poor. So if you didn't catch it, that's what he says. One person is a random salesman who came to the house, who made Ashley wave an American flag and did a sales pitch for America. And then the other guy is a potentially disgruntled church goer. Now, other than this, Caleb told the detective that he had been sleeping on the sofa the night that Ashley was murdered because he had a really bad cough and it had been keeping her up. And when the police searched the house, his side of the bed did look like it

36:36hadn't really been slept in. So that did fit, even though, again, that story changes later on, but we'll come back to it. What I also think is quite weird that in the 911 call that goes on for quite some time i mean you guys listen to five minutes of it goes on for even longer and in all that body cam footage that we just played you from the night i never heard caleb cough once i never heard him cough once in this interview footage i mean we've played you guys like some bits of it goes It goes on for a very long time. I heard him cough a couple of times, but it's more like the kind of cough you do when you're buying time. And you're like, or clearing your throat. If you are coughing so badly that you're having to sleep out on the sofa and not with your wife,

37:19that's like one of those hacking coughs that you can't control, surely. But he never coughs. Anyway, I'm just pointing it out. In this version that Caleb tells the detective now of what happened that night, he says that he woke up to the sound of his dogs shaking their collars, not barking, shaking their collars. And that woke him up. So we got up off the sofa where he's been relegated to because of this mysterious cough. He goes and gets himself a drink of water and then he went to check on his daughters. The daughters are apparently also ill so he goes and checks on them but he ends up falling asleep in their room. He also now said that he heard something like gunshots and he froze. And he

38:03claims that he froze for several minutes. And importantly, during that time that he was frozen, Caleb doesn't say he heard anyone running away or moving through the quite small house. He eventually went into his and Ashley's bedroom and discovered his wife and that's when he called 911. Now look, again this will will change but immediately it's quite odd to say that you heard something like gunshots again the dogs don't bark why are the dogs not barking everybody who knows this family says that the dogs bark all the time the dogs apparently don't bark he has something like gunshots even though he initially told them at the scene that he didn't hear anything and now he's frozen for several minutes does one

38:46freeze for several minutes i don't know that seems unusual maybe if you don't know it's a dangerous sound and you just don't move for several minutes but then how is this intruder because a lot of people say oh how did this intruder break into the house i have lots of questions about how they got in like and the dogs don't hear anything but go straight into the master bedroom if you look at the floor plan of the house it is garage door from garage opens into house and then straight away the main bedroom is like across the corridor so it would be the first room that you would go into but how then if you are frozen for several minutes and in a frozen state after a loud noise has startled you, you're listening, surely.

39:27You might not be moving, but you're listening intently for the sound to repeat itself or something to happen. He doesn't hear any footsteps. He doesn't hear an intruder. Is this person a ghost? How did they get out of the house without him hearing them? If he's been alerted to the incident by these gunshot like sounds. I think it's very odd that he says he never hears anybody running away or running or fleeing out of the house. Yeah. And that's putting aside the fact of like, why would somebody break into your house, find a gun, go into a room, shoot a woman and then leave? Like there's so many questions about this. And I'm not saying that doesn't happen, but it's very unusual to me that he is now admitting to being awake yeah in the immediate aftermath but he says he doesn't hear anything

40:09so yes for the police immediately this story wasn't really adding up because like i said caleb had initially told officers at the scene that he hadn't heard any gunshots now he was saying he had heard something like gunshots but if if he heard the gunshots, again, why did the dogs never bark? And if he was alerted immediately by the sound of the gunshots, how did the intruder escape without Caleb seeing or hearing anything? Now, what is super annoying is that during this interview, Caleb's DNA and fingerprints were taken for elimination. You know, the murder has happened in his house. They need to test to see if there's like a mysterious third party's DNA or fingerprints found. But what they don't do, what Tip City police don't do here is they don't test him for gunshot residue,

40:56which becomes a really big sticking point later on. And this is what I mean. The Ohio Bureau of Investigation get involved like the next morning, the FBI very soon after. But it's this like mistake that they make like at 4.30 on the morning of the murders. It just becomes this huge, huge point at trial. Now his clothes were taken, but they weren't tested. And gunshot residue dissipates very, very quickly. So if you don't get it in a timely manner, it's gone. What's interesting is when they took his clothes, they also didn't find any of Ashley's blood on any of them or on him. There's no sign of any blood, which feels like a big win for the defense. Yeah. Right? And they certainly treat it as that at trial.

41:42But for me, honestly, it's a bit weird. Like your partner is murdered in your house, in your bed, and you don't have any of their blood on you? Like, you didn't touch them? Yeah. You don't know she's dead. Even if she is dead, what, you're not going to touch your wife of 16 years? There's none of Ashley's blood on him. It's like if you found a stranger in the street that had been covered in blood, surely, yeah, you wouldn't touch them. You don't know who they are. Your wife? You didn't touch her? I don't know. To me, it actually feels a bit odd. We'll talk about that more at trial. Still, most of Ashley's family stood firmly by Caleb. He and the girls went to stay with his in-laws and Kayla, Ashley's sister, her family, were freaking out. They were so scared

42:26and so convinced about the existence of this evil intruder that Kayla's husband boarded up all the doors to their house and put bars across their windows. They brought security cameras and a new alarm system. Kayla's kids even insisted on sleeping in their parents' room with them and her husband also put a bar up across the bedroom door just so they could feel safe. Measures that, interestingly, Caleb didn't seem too concerned about having installed at his in-law's house to protect his girls. Yeah, like they're so convinced about his story, about this random person breaking in. And because Ashley's the only one who's murdered they're convinced that this was a targeted attack on her they don't know why

43:09but kayla's like what if we're next what if this person's got a vendetta against our family like they're so terrified and so convinced it's not him but yet he's not worried in the slightest it would seem that this person's going to come back and kill him and his kids but all the while there was one person in ashley's family who was watching caleb flynn her dad todd on the night that ashley was killed todd had been on a snowmobile trip 17 hours drive away from home which is like just such an american thing just casually going away for the weekend to be 17 hours drive away. And when the horrifying news came in from that call from Caleb to Jill, Jill had called Todd, her husband, and told him what had happened.

44:01And even in his state of absolute shock and disbelief, Todd thought that nothing about this story made any sense. He couldn't believe that the dogs wouldn't have gone nuts. According to him, those dogs barked when he and his wife would just pull into the driveway of the home. Sometimes he said they would bark when we just pulled into the cul-de-sac that they lived on. And he said they would keep barking long after they'd come inside. and they're people that the dogs know. The dogs also, according to Todd, apparently slept in the master bedroom, which is where Ashley had been killed. So again, he's like, why were the dogs not in there on this one night that Ashley got murdered? Now, in a state of total confusion, Todd actually Googled on his drive home that night,

44:46can a Christian man snap and kill his own wife? He then tried to phone Jill and ask her about it, ask her about his suspicions around Caleb's story. But she told him, and this is a quote, don't even go there. Because the rest of the family just see Caleb in the purest light. They don't ever think that this would be possible. So Todd said that he put his suspicions about Caleb aside for the sake of his wife's well-being. But it seems that Todd wasn't the only one who was suspicious because the morning after the murder back in Tip City, Aaliyah Botner, Caleb Flynn's mistress of 18 months, woke up to a DM from a member of her church. They were asking her if she'd heard about what had happened to Mrs Flynn,

45:34and they sent across a news article about the killing. Aaliyah immediately texted Caleb saying, What's happening? Is this real? And... Were you involved? And then quickly deleted the were you involved message. Aaliyah then received a message from her boss at the church, telling her that he was at Ashley's family house comforting them, and that she should come as well and pray. And so, at just before 10am, Aaliyah Botner went to the Smith residence to console the family of the murdered woman whose husband she had been sleeping with. I'm just like, there's no excuse you could have made to not go to that house that morning. It's very, it's a lot. And when she gets to this house that i feel like she has absolutely no business being at

46:26caleb's there because he was interviewed by the police but they've obviously let him go they don't have enough to hold him they're suspicious of him but they're still working the intruder theory and so he's at the house of his in-laws when alia turns up and apparently he hugs her and says well that didn't happen how we thought it would, did it? More on that next week. Meanwhile, the investigation was ramping up. Within hours, the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation had become involved. And the day after the murder, the FBI were brought in to also help assist. And in days, they had honed in on Caleb Flynn being their prime suspect, mainly because there was absolutely no sign of any intruder anywhere. And this is the thing, right? They

47:13search on the night. They have sniffer dogs. They have the drones. There's no sign of an intruder. But the neighbor across the road from the Flynn's also had a door cam and there was nothing on there. There was absolutely no sign of anyone coming anywhere near that house that night. And that woman also had a dog. And she says, my dog barks when anyone walks down the street. That dog didn't bark that night. And also, other than the fact that they can't find an intruder or any sign of an intruder, they also realised that Caleb Flynn's story about what happened that night made little sense, especially when compared to the physical evidence, which we will come on to when we get to the trial. And then the police discovered the affair.

47:56It's been reported that this came to light because Aaliyah's own aunt told the police about it. But by this point, they also had Caleb's phone. And although he tried to delete a lot of the messages, as we'll see, he really wasn't that good at covering his tracks. And so, naturally, Aaliyah Botner was brought in for questioning by the FBI. And at first, she completely denied the affair. But did state that she knew Caleb and that there was no way he could have killed his wife, even though just days before she'd asked him if he'd been involved. But of course, it wouldn't take the police long to recover the 107,000 messages between the pair. So, in her second interview, now with a lawyer by her side, Aaliyah Botner confessed to the affair.

48:46And she now also told the FBI that she believed Caleb was guilty of murder. Quite the turnaround. Yeah. Three days after Ashley's murder, after four more interviews with Caleb Flynn, he was arrested for murder, erroneous assault and tampering with evidence. Now, before we get into the trial, let's take a look at the background of the people who are involved here. Caleb and Ashley met at Lee University, a private Christian college in Cleveland, Tennessee. Ashley was there studying education and Caleb was studying pastoral and music ministry. Everyone talks about how challenging it is to raise kids. But what about protecting them? Outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks, baby gates, where do you even start?

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51:01Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and ChimeCard provided by Chime's bank partners. Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes. Everyone talks about how challenging it is to raise kids. But what about protecting them? Outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks, baby gates, where do you even start? Well, protecting your home and auto is a great place to start. Progressive offers customised coverage options so you can be sure that you have the right coverage for you and your loved ones. They're basically the outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks and baby gates of insurance. Don't wait. Get your quote today at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company. Affiliates and other insurers. Not available in all states.

51:47Who here picked a bank at 16? Probably because it was the one that their parents used and then never looked back. I know I did. I didn't really think about what I wanted my bank to do for me. Or what they could offer me that other banks couldn't. That's where Chime comes in. Chime is changing the way that people think about banking. Chime offers the most rewarding fee-free banking, all with no overdraft fees, no monthly fees, no minimum balance fees. You get 5% cash back on Chime card in a category of your choice, like gas or groceries, all while building credit through regular everyday spending with no credit check. You can also grow your money faster with a savings rate that's nine times the national average.

52:28And if you're ever in a pinch, Spot Me lets you overdraft up to $200 fee-free. Join the millions who are already banking fee-free with America's number one choice for banking. Head to Chime.com slash RedHanded. That's Chime.com slash Red-handed. That's Chime.com slash red-handed. Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and ChimeCard provided by Chime's bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details. After they graduated in 2010, they moved to Tip City, Ohio, where Ashley had grown up. Here, Ashley worked as a high school substitute teacher and a volleyball coach, while Caleb got a

53:12job working for Ashley's father's company, a furniture and flooring business that kitted out churches. They got married, had two daughters, and immersed themselves in church life at the Christian Life Center, with Ashley volunteering and Caleb serving as a worship leader. And then, in 2013, Caleb made an appearance on American Idol. My name is Caleb Flynn. I'm from Tip City, Ohio. I auditioned because, I'm sure everybody says it, but music is all I know. It's what I live to do, and I love to sing, so that's why I auditioned. Maybe my wife kind of nudged me a little bit too. My first thought when I got my golden ticket honestly all I could do was cover my face because I cried a little bit. I'm kind of a crybaby I get it from my mom

53:55and my dad but it was honestly just pure joy, excitement. I tried out for American Idol two or three years ago and I didn't make it. So to get this was all the more sweeter and all the more meaningful. So it was awesome. The person that inspires me to be an informer, I guess, would say the Lord. I'm a music pastor and so that's my job every week is to go up there and to sing and to connect what I do on stage of the congregation. So first and foremost, obviously, is the Lord. The thing that makes me unique, you know, I absolutely love the Lord. I love my wife more than anything. She is very, very pretty. Just, oof, I love her. But, you know, I'm just a normal person who absolutely loves to sing more than anything in the world.

54:43And I think I have a different sound in my voice. I have something to offer. My favorite past Idol contestant would probably be Carrie Underwood. She's just absolutely incredible. Love her attitude and just her passion for what she does. And I promise you, if my wife dyed her hair blonde, she would look just like her. I'm the next American Idol because, you know, I can honestly say one thing about me is I love to learn. And so if I hear something that I can do differently or do something that make myself better, I'm going to do everything I can to do it. And so if the judges tell me this is what's going to help, I'm going to do it. And I work harder than anybody I know. And look, I think the thing with Caleb Flynn is that he's very performative.

55:30We're going to see that a lot at trial. But it's also just this like, oh, you know, I'm just this like little small town man who loves Jesus and like loves my wife and does play quite well on American Idol. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, he doesn't get very far. who loves Jesus and like loves my wife and does play quite well on American Idol oh yeah yeah unfortunately he doesn't get very far but yeah he's really got this persona that he wants to put across of just like this like oh you know just little old me and it's like shut the fuck up I mean he is very stupid he is very stupid like we're gonna see it's like nothing about this crime that he has done and he has been convicted so like i can say that

56:03it's not allegedly he has been convicted spoilers it's just none of it like so many mistakes so many mistakes wait till we get to the door it is honestly comical i had to read it so many times because i was like i can't be understanding this right and i'm like no i am he didn't understand it right yeah and just also i feel like there's a very like juvenile way about him. Like even in that, the last thing he says there about his wife, he's talking about Ashley. And he's like, oh gosh, she's just so pretty. And I'm like, you're a grown man. Is that like the best thing you can say about your wife? It sounds like very boyish, like very juvenile. Also, you know, if he hadn't murdered anybody, we might just think he was some charming little doink

56:45who went on American Idol. There's a lot of doinks on American Idol. And he doinked enough that he got a golden ticket to Hollywood, but didn't get very far after that. No, the dream died. Only one doink can survive. But all in all, they did seem like your average happy family. Until 2025, when Caleb's attention was grabbed by another young worship leader. Aaliyah Botner. By this point, he was 37. She was just 21. But they grew close. And at first, according to Aaliyah, Caleb would ask if he could just come over and see her for hugs. But by May that year, things had turned sexual. And Caleb reassured Aaliyah that it was fine because Ashley had cheated on him two years before. He said that he had made a huge mistake in forgiving her

57:44and wasted his opportunity to get out of their loveless marriage. So Christian, what Christian values do you have there, Kayla? Yes, I never should have forgiven my wife. And also, it's important to say, he never offered up any evidence to Aaliyah that Ashley actually had an affair. There's no proof that she had an affair. In fact, I think the police have come out and said there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that any affair ever took place. Not that that would make any of this even remotely excusable, but he's just lying. He's just lying. And anyway, he continues a lie to Aaliyah, says, I should have left her two years ago, but I didn't. And now he says, we're just together because of the kids. There's nothing between between us we're basically just like housemates and he says that he hates his wife and he just

58:28tolerated living with her for his two daughters yeah i don't know i don't know and like i said he has this lie that ashley cheated on him and no doubt alia uses that as a way to rationalize her behavior. But whenever Aaliyah would push Caleb to leave Ashley, get a divorce, Caleb would say that the only reason he was terrified to leave Ashley was because he didn't want to lose custody of the kids. Failing to highlight the fact that he also had a very, very cushy job with her father, earning $200,000 a year. For the next 18 months, the affair continued and Aaliyah and Caleb got more and more sucked in. She was constantly giving him deadlines to leave Ashley and Caleb kept batting those away. And finally, in February 2026, Aaliyah informed Caleb that they were done.

59:20She had a date lined up with another man in March. She literally says, it's like the start of February, she's like, I have a date on the 18th of March with this man. And I'm like, that's very organized of you. But it's again, it's like her very lame manipulation tactics to try and get him to be like right serious because he gets very angry as we'll see when we go through their text it's a very toxic relationship between the two of them they're very jealous of like like alia is so jealous of ashley and very petty she'll make kayla promise to not do anything for her birthday and stuff like that and i'm like okay okay like he's still married to her he'll get angry if she just like follows a man on Instagram like it's so tragic and so puerile but yeah it's it's all just very

1:00:11very embarrassing Caleb panicked and he told her okay I choose you I am free, actions will come tomorrow. And on that tomorrow, the next day, Ashley Flynn was dead. Yeah, actions will come tomorrow. So yeah, given all of that, given those texts alone, it felt like it might just be a slam dunk of a trial but the fact still remained that the police never found the gun that was used to kill ashley they also hadn't found gunshot residue on caleb and they hadn't found any of ashley's blood on him which like if you have shot somebody at close range which is how ashley died that's that's like a bit of a sticking point right there was also absolutely no evidence in any of the sinks or drains in the house that Caleb had

1:01:07cleaned himself up at the house and there was no evidence that he had disposed of or washed any soiled clothes either so how could he have shot Ashley and managed all of that? Could that be just enough reasonable doubt for a jury? The prosecution's case was that the killer had to be Caleb. He was the only adult in the house that night. There was no evidence of an intruder. And then there were texts between him and Aaliyah saying that he wished he could kill Ashley without going to hell or to jail. That's like a quote. We're going to come back to these texts in more detail shortly, but as the prosecution outlined in their opening, this wasn't just a one-off comment over an 18-month affair. Caleb was consistently, on a weekly basis,

1:01:59lamenting the fact that he was stuck with Ashley and how he wished he could kill her off with no consequences. Yeah. Yeah. Biblically or earthly. And that's a very important point to make. And we are going to talk more about the number of texts, the number of times he says these things. But I want to make it clear, he doesn't just say it once. If somebody just says something once over an 18-month period, you could be like, you're really, like, grasping at straws there. He says it again and again and again and again, and so does Aaliyah. Now, the defence at trial in their opening simply hit back with, but can you prove it was him? They reminded the jury that they weren't there to judge Caleb Flynn for his affair.

1:02:45And they also said that they should simply disregard those text messages between the pair of them as simply words used by Caleb to appease a jealous mistress. They didn't mean anything. He wasn't actually going to leave Ashley, let alone kill her. He was just stringing Aaliyah along. And whatever you think of that, that doesn't make him a killer, according to his defence. Caleb's attorneys also claimed that the investigation had been absolutely plagued with errors, bias, convenience and a rush to judgement, with the police absolutely obsessed with Caleb being their killer from the very start. It was clear that the trial was going to come down to Caleb's word versus the evidence. And sadly, that evidence would be lacking the hard physical type of evidence that we know

1:03:36juries like to see. Now, there weren't that many days in this trial. In the end, it actually wrapped up much more quickly than I actually thought it was going to. So we're going to run through the highlights from each of the days because it got very explosive. And fair warning, it also got incredibly cringe. On day one, the prosecution kicked off with the 911 call and the body cam footage, as well as testimony from the first responders. We've already been over our thoughts on the call itself, but Caleb's reaction as he sat in court while it was played out is something else. And as we always say, you can't and should not place all of your judgment on how people's emotions come across in situations like this.

1:04:18But it isn't entirely irrelevant either. And Caleb Flynn looks like someone trying very desperately hard to convince you that he's heartbroken whilst listening to that emergency call. And we're not going to play you the whole thing again, but if you are watching on YouTube, just have a look at his little face. Somebody broke into my home. Somebody broke into my home and killed my wife. Are they still in there? I don't know. I don't know. Okay, what's the address? 9-32 County Ham Court, Kingston, Ohio. Please, What are you seeing? My wife. She's got two shots to her head. There's blood everywhere. Oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God. Sir, please, please, please. Ma'am, I need you to take a deep breath, okay?

1:05:02Do you still see anybody in the house? No, the door to the garage was wide open. Please, hurry, please. Oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God. My daughter's in here. Where is she at? She's in the bed. Are you with her? I am in the room. I'm looking at her. Are you with her? I am in the room. I'm looking at her. Yes, please. You guys have the door locked? We have the door to the crosswalk. Keep to the house. Yes, please. Oh, my God. It's so cringe. It's actually so painful because I feel like he thinks he's doing a really good job. But like, if you guys can't watch us on YouTube, I'm going to describe what we all just watched, right? He's squeezing his eyes. He's like a child. That's the thing about Caleb Flynn.

1:05:53He's very, very, and I know I've used this word already, juvenile. That's the best way I can describe him. He's doing that thing that kids do when they're trying to make themselves cry. He's squeezing his face and squeezing his eyes, willing the tears to come. And when they do, it's like one pathetic tear rolling down his cheek. And he doesn't make any attempt to wipe it away. He almost looks, if you watch it, he looks relieved when that tear comes it's embarrassing the prosecution also pointed out how odd it was that Caleb Flynn did not seem concerned with checking on his girls even though he had no idea if the killer was still in the house or not the state also called the first responders

1:06:37who spoke to Caleb that night he had told them all a very similar story to the one that he would later tell police. He was on the sofa, he heard the dogs shake their collars, he went to get a drink and check on the girls, and then he fell asleep. But there are differences in the versions that he tells throughout the investigation. Sometimes Caleb says that he went back to sleep on the sofa, which is where he had been before the dogs shaking their collars had woken him up. But sometimes he says that he fell asleep in the girl's bedroom. And at first he says that he didn't hear the gunshots. And then he specifically says that he heard two gunshots. And at first he says he was frozen for several minutes,

1:07:17but then in a later retelling he says he was frozen for just a few seconds, yet it took him minutes to call 911. And of course questions were raised about what he was doing in those minutes before he called 9-1-1. Caleb said he went to check on his wife. He had gone into their room and it was dark. He shook her toe or leg and when she didn't wake up he turned on the light and saw what happened. Which is also interesting the idea that ashley was shot in the dark fits with the fact that she didn't wake up before she was murdered but it does make you wonder how a random killer got in found ashley and then managed to shoot her twice in the dark especially when as we'll find out from the medical examiner the shots were almost one on top of the

1:08:05other which we'll come back to now the autopsy did find elevated levels of melatonin in ashley flynn's system so this has led some people and also the prosecution at trial to wonder if ashley had been sedated again it's hard to say. The medical examiner says that the levels were high, but it was kind of the level that you would expect to find in somebody who regularly took melatonin and who had built up a tolerance and therefore took quite a lot. And to be clear, nothing else was found in her system. Now, when it comes to where Caleb was and when he did or didn't hear the gunshots if he was on the sofa again why did he not go and check on the girls as well because in one of the versions he says he's on the sofa again he says he goes and checks on the girls he goes back to

1:08:54the sofa and then he says he hears the gunshots and maybe you can say oh he hears them coming from the direction of his master bedroom but he doesn't hear anybody flee and apparently he's only frozen for a few seconds now but again how does this mysterious person make it all the way out the garage door before you've made it to the master bedroom but let's you know let's brush that aside he gets into the master bedroom he calls 9-1-1 that's what he says but you never heard the intruder leave why would you not then desperately go check on your two sleeping daughters? Because you don't know that the person isn't in the house. You never heard them leave. And even if you heard them leave, you wouldn't know that somebody else isn't in the house. I spend at least 50% of the

1:09:31time I'm in my house on my own, convinced that there's somebody else in the house. And that's without somebody being found murdered. Like the idea that you would find your wife having been murdered and you wouldn't automatically think i need to go make this phone call but i need to go check on my girls it's just very very odd like it doesn't really make much sense now if the story was that he had been asleep in the girls room when he heard these gunshots then where exactly did he fall asleep because the police testified that his daughters shared a bunk bed and the bottom bunk which is which is where Caleb Flynn claims that he had been asleep because it's even more ridiculous than a 38-year-old man

1:10:08apparently slept in the top bunk with his other daughter. The bottom bunk bed was tiny. The police said it was just big enough for a child. And also you can see very clearly in the pictures that were shown at trial, it's absolutely covered in stuffed animals. And none of them look to have been moved or to be disturbed. So people were like, where exactly did you sleep, grown man? It doesn't really make much sense. And look, does that mean he's lying? Maybe, I don't know. And also, yes, the fact that he confuses things about did he hear gunshots? How many did he hear? he asleep sure we've seen this before people's stories around traumatic events can get confused that doesn't necessarily mean he's lying people misremember things all that stuff but as the

1:10:54prosecution put it at trial people lie but the evidence doesn't and for me the apple watch data which we'll get to later is quite telling because it seems very inconsistent with what Caleb Flynn said happened during this crucial window of time. But for now, let's talk about his guns. Caleb had multiple guns in his house. But in those minutes when he thought there was an intruder in his house with his family he didn't go and get his shotgun from the wardrobe i don't understand that if you are going to be the kind of person that has guns in your house yes the reason you have guns in your house is to protect your family one would assume from an intruder who's going to come in and murder you that has happened

1:11:37now but you've still got two daughters in the house and you are still alive and you're telling me you have a shotgun in your house but in the minutes it took between you finding your wife dead and calling 911 you didn't go get your shotgun he even said he went into the garage but he didn't go and check on his nine millimeter come on he told the police that he had gone into the garage to check the door but he didn't go and get his handgun from his truck, which was also in the garage. Caleb supposedly didn't know his handgun was missing until the police told him. The first responders also noted that while he was sobbing about his dead wife, he didn't show a lot of fear that the killer could still be in the house,

1:12:21or that they might come back. Again, I think that is a point worth mentioning. If someone was murdered in your house and you never even actually heard them leave, even if you did think you heard them leave, what if there's two of them? I'd be telling the police, you need to search this house from top to bottom. We need to get my daughters out of here. All of the body cam footage, his daughter's still asleep in the bedroom and he's hanging out with the police. I don't know. It doesn't really vibe for me in terms of the level of fear I would expect somebody to have in a home invasion murder. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone talks about how challenging it is to raise kids. But what about protecting them? Outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks, baby gates, where do you even start? Well,

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1:14:48and the garden with his sniffer dog and tried to get the dog to pick up the scent of someone leaving the house, leaving the scene. But according to him, there was nothing to track. The dog just kept circling back and coming back into the garage again and again and again. It was not leaving the property because as far as this dog was concerned, no scent left the property that night. And look, on cross, obviously the defense are going to do what they need to do. And on defense, they do get the handler to admit that he didn't check from the front of the garage doors, but the big garage doors, but that's not even how Caleb said that they left. They're obviously just trying to poke a hole in it.

1:15:30For me, the fact that the dog never ever tracks anybody leaving the house or any scent leaving the house, obviously it's not definitive, but it's another brick in the wall of evidence. Next up was the door. This was a big part of the state's evidence at trial. Again, the door we're talking about is the side door into the garage, not the big ones that you drive your car through. This door looked to be the point of entry for the supposed killer, but the state's two forensic witnesses from the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation who took the stand said that the damage to this door was inconsistent with the 800 door break-ins they had previously investigated between the two of them. According to them, typically when a door is broken down you see damage to the latch

1:16:13from the door being forced open. The door handle in this case had popped right off and it was also covered in indents like it had been hit with something circular like a hammer. There was also damage to the door with bits of wood on the floor that had been chipped away. But what looked odd was that all of the corresponding damage to the door frame and the trim was on the interior of the garage. In the opinion of these expert door witnesses, it looked like the damage to the Flynn's garage side door had happened when the door was already open. And from the inside, the damage is to the interior door frame. I mean, what is happening? I rewrote this so many times because i was like i can't be right i can't have understood this right no the damage is on the inside of the

1:17:11garage and the wood chips the chips that have fallen off the doorframe damage are on the garage floor they're not out in the street and, they say basically they believe that the handle had been smashed with a hammer because it had all these round indents. They found a hammer that they said was consistent with the damage that was done inside the garage. But it was kind of like a neither here nor there because they were like, this hammer is one in a million hammers. It could have been any hammer. So I wouldn't bulk on that too much. But my problem was I'm like, so now we're saying, Caleb, that somebody hammered the doorknob off your garage door and broke into your house. And you didn't hear that.

1:17:53And your dogs didn't hear that. Come on. Hammering the door handle off and nobody heard a thing. It would be more believable if you were like, the door was just left open and somebody walked in even then a dog would have heard it but it was hammered off yeah it's just it just doesn't make sense and then there's the refrigerator inside the Flynn's garage there was a ginormous fridge that was positioned in front of the garage side door that's where it was usually kept so basically the family don't use that side door. That's where it was usually kept. So basically, the family don't use that side door. Right. So they're using up the wall space by just putting a fridge in front of it. And this is what makes no sense because then you're saying that apparently

1:18:34the door, which was partially open when the police got there, the fridge had been moved out of the way. What you're then saying is that if this is the door that had been used on the night of the murder by the killer, which is what Caleb flynn is saying then that person must have forced the door open from the outside but somehow left damage on the inside trim and they must have pushed the fridge out of the way as well so when they felt some resistance that the door wasn't opening because there's a giant fridge in front of it they just kept pushing yeah and managed to move the fridge out of the way so that they could sneak in but what's weird is when the police got there is that the fridge looked

1:19:07like it had been moved back because it was still in the way of the door so it was like someone had pushed the door open got in and then on their way out had pulled the fridge back in front of the door? Or they had got in, pushed the fridge out of the way and then pushed it back in front of the door and then found another way out? None of this makes any sense. Why would you bother taking the time if you've just broken into somebody's house to do that? And also, if they moved it on their way into the house why would you block the only point of exit to that property that you know that you have also caleb flynn said that he didn't think that the front door had been opened because he said he didn't

1:19:54hear it so it stands to reason that the intruder if there was one would have gone out the way that they came in so it's not like on their way out they just opened the front door and ran out he says he never heard anything so yeah that person if there was an intruder must have gone back out of the garage door but how do you get out of the garage door and then push the refrigerator back in its way from the inside it doesn't make any sense like the whole fact that there's no other way for this intruder to get out, but the fridge is back in the way of the front of the side garage door scuppers the idea that that's how the intruder got out. Now in one of his later retellings, Caleb is like, whoops, I fucked that one up. So he now says that he actually moved the fridge

1:20:39slightly back in front of the door before the police got there. Okay. Which again, he must have done. Like we said, before the police got there, why would you do that? Why would you mess with the scene? Now, you could make the argument that it was to stop the killer getting back in. So he's pushing the fridge back in front of the door. But what if they're still in the house? You're locking yourself in there with this killer who's just shot your wife? And also, right behind you in your truck is your gun. You're going to move the fridge back in front of the door to protect your family, but you're not going to grab your gun. It doesn't make any sense. The state then brought up how Caleb could possibly have known

1:21:19that Ashley had been shot twice. Because if you listen back to the 911 call he specifically says that his wife was shot twice in the head yeah immediately and didn't want to point this out too early on because we're going to give it all away but he says in that 911 call he says my wife's been shot twice in the head and how could he possibly have known that so quickly? Especially given the fact that the medical examiner testified that the gunshot wounds to Ashley's head more or less shared an entry point. They were so close together that it was only during the autopsy that the coroner could see exactly that Ashley had been shot twice. In fact, when they saw Ashley, there was so much blood on her head and her face

1:22:03and so much of her hair matted across the wounds that they couldn't tell even what injuries she'd sustained yeah they were like we didn't even know if it was blunt force trauma we don't know if she'd been stabbed we didn't know anything because so much of her hair was in the way there was so much blood we didn't even know it was gunshots. So the question was, how had Caleb Flynn so confidently told the 911 operator in his lady voice that Ashley had been shot twice? Especially given that it looked like he had never even touched her. Because he's got none of her blood on him. The defence claimed that Caleb had heard the gunshots, that there were two, and there were two spent shell casings on the floor in the master bedroom.

1:22:48So that's how he knew. But two gunshots and two casings doesn't mean that Ashley was shot twice in the head. And considering that in his first version of events, Caleb said that he didn't hear any gunshots at all, this was quite a big blow for the defence at trial. For me, it really is the most telling thing. How could he possibly have known? Yeah. But while this felt like a bit of a win for the prosecution, the biggest issue for them was also centred around the gun. Firstly, the fact that no gunshot residue was found on Caleb Flynn. So the defense made the point that it seemed very unlikely that he could have fired two shots and then come out clean. Which, like, sure. But again, it's important to say that Caleb Flynn was not tested for gunshot residue immediately on the night of the murder.

1:23:46Some reports say he was tested later. Some reports say he wasn't tested at all but either way they never found gunshot residue on him and as the prosecution explained at trial gunshot residue does dissipate very easily and very quickly like you could just wash your hands and it would go so the lack of it doesn't prove that caleb flynn didn't shoot ashley but the fact that they don't have it could be a bit of a sticking point. The question is, how would this land with the jury? And we all know that juries love a bit of hard physical evidence. Speaking of which, the even bigger issue for the state was the missing gun. The police had torn that house up looking for it. They even took the insulation from the attic. They got a high power magnet to search all of the drains in

1:24:28the surrounding area. The detective in charge of the search, Adam Bernard, took the stand and had to admit that they had searched really, really hard, but they hadn't found any sign of the gun. So how could Caleb have got rid of it? And that is the biggest mystery. According to Caleb's Apple Watch data, it doesn't seem like he left the house around the time leading up to the 911 call. He was also not on any of the CCTV that investigators checked, nor was he spotted on any of the neighbourhood's doorbell cameras. And even if he had snuck out, how far could Caleb have gone in the time that he had? Yeah, the missing gun is... It's an issue insofar as, right, the dogs, the doorbell cameras, the CCTV,

1:25:25doesn't show anybody coming to the house which is what makes the intruder theory so hard to believe it also doesn't show anybody leaving the house so it kind of makes this idea that a lot of people have that somebody like alia botner helped him and she came to the house he does the murders and she takes the gun the soiled clothes etc away with her and she disposes of them. But again, nobody is caught coming or leaving the house. So everything that happens, happens inside that house. Nobody leaves. So the gun has to be there somewhere. Because again, if it's an intruder, obviously if they just took the gun, it's gone forever. We don't know. But I don't understand where the gun is. The police really, really, really took that house apart piece by piece and they never found it.

1:26:07That does help Caleb. That does help Caleb Flynn. But again, just because you didn't find the gun, it doesn't mean it's not there. But I understand. This is what I mean about people giving Tip City Police a hard time for not finding the gun, not doing the GSR test. And yeah, the missing gun is the big issue. But this is another problem with this whole case, right? The timeline that we're working with, because the defence say he had no time to leave. He had no time to leave this house. He had no time to dispose of anything and no time to wash any soiled clothes. The timeline is very tight. The problem is, in this case, the timeline we're working with is based entirely on Caleb Flynn's story.

1:26:50There is no other corroborating evidence to give us a timeline of when Ashley Flynn actually died. And that's because one of the most frustrating things about this case is that nobody else heard any gunshots. Nobody else in the neighborhood heard any gunshots. And also, we don't have a clear time of death for Ashley. I really don't understand why, but the medical examiner wasn't able to provide a time of death. And this is the thing that's confusing about it, is that Ashley's body wasn't left out, exposed in the elements, submerged in water or something like that, that could have affected lividity or body temperature. Like, I don't know why they weren't able to determine a time of death. But whatever the reason, we don't have one. The paramedics on the scene did tell the officers

1:27:36that night that they didn't think, quote, Ashley had been dead for hours. So they felt like by the time they got there there it was still quite a fresh body as horrible as that is to say but it's still so vague yeah it's still so vague and it's very annoying because it means that the only timeline we have to work with for this entire crime is the one that Caleb Flynn has given us and while there are definitely issues in this case like the missing gun if the murder had actually taken place earlier that night, Caleb could absolutely have had more time to hide the gun, clean himself up and get rid of any bloody clothes. The main elements of missing physical evidence that his defense would later use to claim that he's not guilty could be undermined if the murder had taken place earlier. And presumably you can't just get a giant magnet delivered immediately.

1:28:27Like, I think there's enough, like, pockets of time. Yeah. So we just don't know. We just don't know because we can't say. If even another neighbour had heard the gunshot wounds, nothing is heard. Because you could argue, like, he used a silencer to kill her and then he fires some gunshots later to make sure other people hear it to make that timeline fit. But nobody hears anything. Nobody sees anything. So the only timeline comes from the prime suspect. Even if we did have a time of death, it wouldn't be an exact time. It would only narrow it down to a few hours. So it might actually have not been that useful in the end anyway. Yeah, because typically they don't say, oh, they died at 8.30pm.

1:29:11They'll say like between 8 and 11 or whatever. But the point stands that we only have the timeline that Caleb Flynn gave to police. The lack of gun or soiled clothes has also made some people wonder if Caleb Flynn had an accomplice. Did someone like Aaliyah come by and take the gun and take his bloody clothes? Maybe, but again, there's absolutely no evidence that that happened. Especially as the scent dogs didn't pick up the scent of anybody leaving the property that night. And for me, it's the doorbell cameras in the neighborhood. You know, as we'll find out, he does a lot of fuckery with their security cameras, but he can't affect other people's doorbell cameras. Nobody sees any cars coming or going.

1:29:53So I know why people hate Aaliyah Botner and want her to go down for this as much as they want Caleb Flynn to go down for it. But there's no evidence that I have seen that she was involved with the murder or the cover-up. Don't worry. Start of next week, we're going to get into her testimony. But right now we're on day three of the trial and things were heating up as Ashley's family took the stand. First up, you had her mum, Jill. And the biggest revelation to come out of Jill's testimony was that when the family found out that the girls were going to be interviewed by Children's Services, Caleb had taken both of his daughters on a long walk. And according to Jill, when they came home, the girls were absolutely terrified. Jill later suspected that he'd coached them in

1:30:39what to say to get their story straight straight or risk losing him as well as their mum. But despite all this, the defence chose not to cross-examine Jill and I think that was probably a good decision. Especially given the fact that after the trial, the girls disclosed that Caleb, their father, had indeed told them that their statements to the authorities could mean the difference between life or death for him. Hmm. What a fucking piece of shit. The level of manipulation and the emotional abuse he was willing to dole out to these daughters who've already had their mother murdered to make them feel responsible for whether he now goes to prison or not. It's disgusting. Making them feel responsible for his safety because of his actions.

1:31:25He's prepared. Get your sick bags next week, honestly. Next up was Ashley's sister, Kayla Kate. She now has custody of Ashley and Caleb's two girls, Ava and Elisa. And what she told the court went a long way to help explain why Caleb perhaps felt divorce wasn't an option. I think there was definitely a huge element of him just being a massive pussy who didn't want to have to face his in-laws for leaving their daughter after they had done so much for him. And also that he would have lost face in the church. But mainly, as Kayla explained it, it was probably to do with the money. Ashley and Kayla's dad, Todd, had decided to retire and leave his business to the sisters, 50-50. So they were going to start making a lot more money as a family.

1:32:19And Kayla told the court that she had shown Caleb a spreadsheet that broke down how he could soon be earning up to $400,000 a year, doubling his current salary. And this was in the months before Ashley was murdered. Now, the defense tried to push back on the family's emotional and revelatory testimony by highlighting how they had all thought that Caleb was innocent. They were all convinced of it. When the police, in fact, first spoke to Kayla, Ashley's sister, she told them outright, you've got the wrong man. He would never do this. They only changed their mind once the police told them about the affair. So the defense are like, look, their judgment has been completely clouded by the emotion regarding

1:33:01his infidelity, not any so-called evidence that the police actually presented them with about the fact that he did it. And I think the defense do the best job they can, really. I mean, this is a fucking bullshit case. And also, I don't want to undermine the prosecution. I think it would be easy to think that the prosecution were always going to win this and they should have any cases up for losing like absolutely but i think the defense do as good a job as they could have and they basically told the jury after the damage done by kayla and jill and todd taking the stand they're being clouded by the infidelity don't do the same yeah focus on the facts and the evidence of the murder and we're going to have to

1:33:40stop there today guys and we're going to pick back up next week where we will go straight into the testimony of alia botner the mistress or as the defense calls her throughout the side piece oh god and i was like we're gonna call her mistress because not because she deserves any any any you know respectability but because that man the defense he is too old to be saying side piece i'm too old to be saying side piece and i'm not gonna say side we're just gonna call her mistress like it's just come on this is a court of law but the reason he does that is because he wants to make it seem less serious he wants to make it seem less serious he wants to make it seem less serious right mistress sounds more serious like a woman you might actually kill

1:34:27for i see i see but anyway that's it guys join us next week where we will be doing caleb flynn the second and final part we will start off with aliyah's testimony we'll be reading all of the horrendous text messages it's so so cringe we'll be doing a bit of role playing stay tuned for that and we will also be playing the ai generated love song because, you know, that's there. And if you enjoyed this episode and you are watching us on YouTube, perhaps for the first time, then be sure to subscribe. I think we worked out recently that like, what, 70% of you watching us on YouTube are not subscribed to the channel. It would really, really help us a lot to continue doing these videos, which we really enjoy doing. if you would hit that subscribe button and, you know, maybe share this video,

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