Camp Donald, Bezos's AI Fantasy, and Desperately Seeking Kara Swisher

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1:40Join them and get $500 when your business signs up and starts traveling at InGen.com slash Vox. Hi, this is Kara Swisher. Just a note about today's episode. For the first time ever, I was late and really late. But co-host of Raging Moderates, Jess Tarlow, jumped in to save the day until I arrived. So please enjoy. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. There you go. So a little different today. We cannot find Kara Swisher. And we've been making jokes for the last 15 minutes. You want to hear my favorite, Jess? Yeah, lay it on me. We sent bloodhounds looking for her, but she found them first. Or we think she might be in a Patagonia store asking for something less douchey in Silicon Valley.

2:32Anyways, we don't know where she is. We think that she lost track of time, the time zone, and that she's with the Barksdales in Mississippi. Isn't she? She's here, though. No? I don't know. I ran into her in the Vox studio in New York City, which was a delightful run. And I guess that was two days ago. She could have hopped on a jet to the jungle with an ayahuasca shaman or something. It's funny you say that because every time people run into Kara, the first word they think of is delightful. You lost some credibility. But despite that, we're going to move forward with the show. And on with us, for those of you who don't know, is Jess Tarloff, co-host of Raging Moderates and some show on cable TV.

3:11And the cable is dying. It doesn't even matter. There you go. I'm tied for first with Kate and Collins for the pervy obsession of the president. Anyways, and we're not even going to go to that. First off, Donald Trump appears to be doubling down on his comments about Iran potentially striking California as he defends the war. Let's listen to what he said at a rally on Wednesday night. You want to see trauma? You want to see problems? And I said it the other day. Let them hit a missile into San Diego or Los Angeles on the way. Let them hit. You want to see a horror show? You want to see problems? Let them hit San Diego or Los Angeles on the way. Let them hit. You want to see a horror show? You want to see

3:45problems? Let them hit San Diego. Let them hit Los Angeles and you want to see some bad things happen. You want to see a country that would be in free fall. We're not going to let that happen. We protect our cities. We protect our country. We're not letting that happen. All right. So I'm going to pretend I'm Kara Swisher. Can you believe this guy wave to potentially tsunami territory. And, you know, that I like to be nauseously optimistic. You always have to run like you're behind. And the good news is Democrats are actually doing that. But these kinds of comments are the things that really turn off independents and moderates. So like if his base is largely intact, and there are parts of it that are fracturing for sure,

4:51but in general, the, you shot someone on Fifth Avenue, let me buy you a beer crowd is still, you know, hook, line and sinker in there. This is the stuff for people who are on the fence or who maybe took a flyer on him in 2024 because they thought that prices would go down, we wouldn't have wars in the Middle East, and that the Democrats were too scattered and woke and crazy and weren't delivering. They look at this and just say, like, what's wrong with you? The question is, how did he put it or people who are trying to decode Trump in the first term where they said, you know, don't take him literally or seriously or whatever it is like, where does nuking Los Angeles and San Diego, I guess, getting the Iranians to do it, we're not

5:39going to do it ourselves. Where does that go on the scale of how seriously you're supposed to take him or what signal this was the first time it felt, oh, God, someone, we need to take grandpa's driver's license away. It's interesting you say this especially turns off moderates. Is it worth it for sort of inflaming or exciting the base? Or it's just net-net this is a bad move politically, is what you're saying. Oh, definitely. I mean, this is crunch time, right? Early voting has started. It is going well for Democrats, you know, seeing huge surges, especially in Latino voters. And we know that his approval rating with Latinos has plummeted to levels that they certainly didn't expect based on a very good overperformance in 2024,

6:47but putting back together the more traditional Democratic coalition. So folks are paying attention now. That's what happens after Labor Day. And it's a month, within a month, the election. So folks are perking up and they're saying, oh, what's going on here? And he's talking about being cool with losing, you know, big, important American cities. And I should add also, there are a lot of Republicans in San Diego. Like he didn't pick. I get California is right, you know, purple to conservative. So, you know, go after L.A. We've kind of been there before. He's told generals, you know, storm storm blue cities. I don't really care what you do here. But adding San Diego to the mix, I assume, you know, it's a Gavin Newsom problem. And he's talking about the

7:3725th Amendment. We're not going to get there. But I do think it is a major turnoff because people just want to hear about real stuff. Like, what's the economic plan? What's the plan for getting out of the war in Iran? You know, what does immigration enforcement look like? Because we don't like Stephen Miller riding around on a pickup truck, you know, taking our neighbors out of our communities. Trump made similar comments on Monday night, leading California Governor Gavin Newsom to call for the 25th Amendment to be invoked. Newsom said the president's comments were deranged and dangerous. White House Communications Director Stephen Chung pushed back on X, saying Trump was describing the threat U.S. cities would have faced if a nuclear run hadn't been stopped.

8:17He's the hero. Yeah, there you go. Donald Trump is the hero. This is how bad it could have been, but right now everyone's just having to pay. How much does it cost now to get an oil tanker through the Strait of Hormuz? Yeah, it's what is to be fair, though, my understanding is the passage of I'll put forward a thesis here, Jess, I don't want to call it an October surprise. So essentially, we've seen this before. There's nothing new for presidents to try and come up with a military-involved October surprise, whether it's Carter, it goes all the way back to Vietnam to try and juice him in the polls because America has a tendency to rally around the flag and the current administration during military action. probability that something could go very right in Iran right now. It looks like the oil embargo is

9:06beginning to really have serious impact on Iran. And oil flowing through the Strait of Hormuz is actually almost to pre-war levels. If oil starts to dive, and also, I believe, if you take off your partisan lens here and ask yourself what could go right, we didn't see Assad falling until he did. I actually think there's not a likelihood, but a chance that the IRGC could have a major disruption or fall. You know, you just don't know. I wonder if something could go very right in the next 30 days in Iran. All right, everybody, we found Kara. Fucking ring cameras. Sorry, I don't know time differences. I don't know what to tell you. When did you become me? It's time to take mommy's driver's license away.

10:03Let me tell you, I'm in Mississippi. I'm with the most wonderful person I know from tech, Jim Barksdale, who has raised money for literacy in Mississippi Today, which is local journalism. It's an astonishing thing. It's with Donna and Jim. And I'm at their house. We were having a delightful breakfast all together, and I didn't realize the time difference. And I apologize. Central time is an hour behind or ahead. See, I don't even know. I don't realize the time difference. And I apologize. Central time is an hour behind or ahead. See, I don't even know. We thought we were going to find you under a pile of Patagonia vests at the local Patagonia store. We were making ayahuasca jokes that you were like in the jungle somewhere with a shaman.

10:36And I could have been. So anyway, so I'm here in Mississippi. And that's where I am. I'm going to play Kara. All right, Scott, we've got a lot to get to. Okay, we've got a lot to get to. So, Kara, I was just speaking to Jess Tarloff about the fact that Atlantic is saying there might be sort of an October surprise, that there might be something kind of big going down, and that he's sort of, I don't know, teasing some military action or something in Iran. Any thoughts? Well, that's what he would do. He's got to do something dramatic, right? There's something that has to happen that'll take people's focus away and, I guess, approximate a victory of some sort or approximate something that's sort of shock and awe. Probably it'll backfire on him because

11:19he's an incompetent leader. But, you know, the idea of most presidents do things like this when things are bad. They take it for an action. Right. And they think this is what people want. But actually, they don't. Right. They actually don't. Most people are very against the war. Well, that was the blinding insight people come to pivot for. Now we're going to switch identities. And, Kara, you're going to take the show from here. Thank God, said everyone listening to this dog's breakfast called Pivot. Thank you. All yours, sweetheart. We're glad you're back. We're glad you're going to take the show from here. Thank God, said everyone listening, to this dog's breakfast called Pivot. Thank you so much.

11:46All yours, sweetheart. We're glad you're back. We're glad you're safe. Are you okay? I'm going to wheel you into the hospital. And it's going to be one of those cheap county hospitals. You were worried. It's going to be in a mood all day because of this. Oh, well, thanks a lot. Okay. I need someone to hold my hand, not vice versa. Why don't you just say you miss me and you're worried if anything would happen to me? You could say. We started to get worried. Like I said, we started to get worried. We almost called Brooke and then I thought we're not that worried. I'm just telling you. Anyway, and now for the grift of the week. Trump wants to turn part of his West Palm Beach Golf Club into a presidential retreat at Camp David. Though when asked if he would call it

12:30Camp Donald, oh my God, Trump said his name is already Trump International. The plan would designate part of the property as a permanent official retreat for U.S. presidents and foreign leaders used for summits and presidential vacations. Future presidents would also be offered comped memberships to Trump's club. Lucky them. The club's lawyer says construction paid by Trump, maybe, would be finished until after President Trump leaves office. So really, it's just a gift to Trump's successors. What do you all think of this thoughtful gift? That man has not paid for anything himself. No. For all of time. I love now, you know, with the ads that they're putting during the NFL and like college game day and things like that,

13:11that apparently they're going to start paying for it, but it won't be retroactive. So I almost, I've gotten to the point now where I'm like, just bring it on, because it is so clearly expressing to the rest of us that he doesn't give a shit about the actual business of governing. And I would rather go into Election Day with everyone being clear eyed about that. Right. Like this is a man that cares about having Camp Donald or Trump International, whatever, Redux version. Well, the externalities, right? All the externalities, like a Camp David or the columns, the Corinthian columns versus iconic, that kind of thing. Yeah. I mean, yes, it's a stylistic nightmare. But this is also a way for him to stay in power because I'm sure he's having a meltdown

13:59about the fact that Steve Bannon is working very hard for the third term plan, but it's probably not going to come to fruition. And how does he keep a stranglehold on American politics for longer? This is a way to do that. However, he's going to be informing what goes on in the ballroom. Maybe he'll be in the bunker underneath. Maybe we'll get him out. I'm not really sure. But I do welcome it from a political strategist point of view on the other side, because you can just say he cares more about this stuff than he cares about the fact that, you know, your gas is over four dollars and you can't afford school supplies this year for your kids. And this is what he's concerned with, like bread and circuses, essentially.

14:40The bread and the circus. Yeah. Yeah. Scott? So members clubs in New York, I was having a conversation last night. I'm not exaggerating. They've opened probably 12 or 15 in the last two years, two to three years. It's a great concept. So House kind of came out with the Toyota membership clubs in London, and then it came to New York. And then this visionary, a guy named Scott Sartiano said, there's room at the high end because of people are making so much money. And he came in with sort of the Mercedes version, zero bond. And then I think about 14 different, very wealthy people were at different tables at zero bond and said, I can do this. And none of them were talking to each other. And they've just opened everywhere. And there's one on the Upper West, I think, which I love to go to once every 10 or 12 years, the Upper West Side.

15:29I don't see why anyone lives up there. Museums. Seriously. You don't go, the museums are incredible up there. Move to Greenwich, Connecticut. I mean, why live in Manhattan? Barney Greengrass. It's like, well, okay. There's a Panera there. Zabars. Anyways, so if you have a dog, I get it because of the park. But anyways, there's something called, I think it's a friend of mine who's a player in private equity took me there. It's Maxine's or Oswald's. Oh, I've been there. Maxine's. It's on the Upper East Side. It's on the East Side. Okay. Yeah. I went with Plepler. The average age of the people there is dead. Dead. I have never seen so many old people who have descendants about to fight over their estate.

16:10Okay. Literally, it was the hall of fame of private equity. By the way, that's going to be Jess if he's a billionaire, but he's very wealthy. He was the least wealthy person in the room. It was, if you named a private equity person, they were in there and the lights were so bright so people could read and there was fabric everywhere. So the acoustics were really good. And the font on the menus was like 7 million. Okay. And my favorite part was a guy walked by, like a famous private equity guy. We'll just call him David. And my friend was like, hi, David. And the guy just kept kind of shuffling along and he's literally like, David! David, he started screaming. And the guy still couldn't hear him.

17:00And nobody flinched. Nobody there can hear a thing. How does this get to Trump? This is going to be worse than that. This is going to be less cool than that. Oh, I see. I see where it's going. Yeah. So it's like the elderly Camp David. We could put Chuck Grassley there. We could put Mitch McConnell. We could wheel him in. Those people, right? Correct? Yeah, it's not. Schumer can shuffle on in. You're going to be able to order a Ruth Bader Ginsburg club sandwich. Okay. All right. Okay. On that note, it's another grift. Okay, Scott and Jess, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, the Paramount Warner Brothers merger is complete. Support for the show comes from Atio. There are sales teams out there who never seem to stop moving. Always a step ahead. Always on the number. Thank you. in your inbox, Atio meets you wherever you are. This is the frontier of go-to-market. Teams like Parallel, Turbo Puffer, and Wardsmith are already turning Atio to set the pace. Now it's your turn.

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19:48Support for the show comes from CoreWeave. AI isn't just a new tool. It encompasses so much more. It's spurring a revolution across all industries and reshaping itself to become a big part of our future together. CoreWeave is at the center, powering some of the biggest names in AI. As the essential cloud for AI, Coreweave provides an AI platform that combines next-generation infrastructure, intelligent tools, and expert support. It's powering the world's most complex AI workloads faster and more efficiently. From medical research and diagnosis to education, from complex visual effects from movies to breakthroughs in science and technology. If it's AI, Coreweave is uniquely ready to power it with purpose-built tech.

20:24The big ideas, the wild visions, and what-ifs and why-nots. CoreWeave is working to build what's never been built before. CoreWeave is the essential cloud for AI. Ready for anything, ready for AI. To learn more about how CoreWeave powers the world's best AI, go to coreweave.com slash ready for anything. We're back with more news. Paramount has officially completed its $81 billion acquisition of Warner Brothers Discovery, creating a new media giant, Skydance. The combined company now controls Paramount Plus, HBO Max, CBS, CNN, and two major movie studios. Skydance is taking on $82 billion in debt and plans to cut $6 billion in costs over three years. And the company has added some notable names to its board, Lorraine Powell Jobs, former

21:15Activision Blizzard CEO Bobby Kotick, and former UK Prime Minister Tony Blair. He will serve as an advisor. The other two are on the board. At the time of this taping, shares are now up 4% for the day, even though it was at the decline yesterday. A year from now, what would you say makes this merger a success? Someone else buys it. I've said this over and over. If there's a book called The Worst Acquisitions in History, it's going to be called Time Warner. Yeah. I mean, there's something about this company where the assets are so sexy that people, a billionaire keeps wandering in. It's like, who's the woman? I think it's, who's the woman who keeps marrying billionaires? Like, there's something about her that people, this company is the Lauren Sanchez of media.

22:05There is something about Lauren Sanchez that is clearly magnetic. I've met all of her husbands, and they are really impressive guys. And I have met Lauren Sanchez. She is magnetic indeed. Yeah. There's something about Lauren Sanchez that she's clearly... Everybody who meets Lauren Sanchez wants to marry her. And I say that as a compliment, that she clearly has some extraordinary magnetism. I'm not sure you're saying as a compliment, but let's. I think he is. Is he? Okay. Deep down. Well, but it's not the pervy side of it, but she is so fun. She has married the most impressive men in America, in my view. Anyways, everyone can't help but marry Time Warner, AT&T. I mean, that didn't work, right? AOL, Steve Case said, I'm sitting on a bag of shit supposedly worth

22:54$150 billion. I know, I'll talk Time Warner shareholders and employees into giving me half of their company. And then Randall Stevenson said, oh, wait, telco run by phone guys in Dallas. It makes sense to own HBO. And then they managed to offload it to the world's highest compensated banker, a brilliant investment banker, a guy named David Zasloff, who figured out a way to have a show that talked about sharks for a week. And that merged and that stock went way down because the business made no sense. And now they've talked other billionaires into buying this thing. The key number here is the following, $82 billion in new debt on a combined entity. That means massive cost cutting. It's a company betting that its balance sheet that they'll be able to pull off what no one's pulled

23:44off so far. and that is streaming consolidation that works better than streaming competition math. It's very difficult. It's the same bet WarnerMedia made with AT&T and Lost. The other interesting thing that you mentioned was the board members. But when you put people on your board, it's as much as a signal as it is an attempt to get domain expertise. Putting Lorraine Powell Jobs on the board is like, look, we're not the crazy politicos we think you are. She's a very credible person who has a lot of respect and has done a great job with The Atlantic. And it's them saying, see, we might be red, but we're light red. We're more purple than red. I spoke with her about it this week. And I think that's the case. I do. And

24:23she's done an incredible job at the Atlantic and been the right kind of media owner, very supportive. And yet, because they've been through a lot with Trump, and I think it is a signal to Democrats and people who are more anti-Trump to do so. And I hope it's not at her expense, as I told her, but it is. And Bobby Kotick's a very savvy operator also at the same time. These are sort of reasonable people. These are great board picks. But it is. And Bobby Kotick's a very savvy operator also at the same time. These are sort of reasonable people. These are great board picks. I thought the most interesting one was Tony Blair. Sort of. Ellison backs, Ellison gives him all the money for his fund. He's Ellison in the Ellison universe.

24:59Yeah, but what it signals, it's actually, it's a savvy move because it signals Skydance wants geopolitical regulatory Sherpa through Europe. I mean, he's the guy that's on speed dial to every regulator and power player in Europe. And what it says is that's where it tells you where they expect the next fight to be and that it's likely to be regulatory and from abroad. This, but just backing up, this merger, this merger is less creating a media giant and more two swimmers who are struggling grabbing onto each other. The combined scale in this business, it's not gonna fix the underlying problem. And that is linear decline, streaming thin margins. It just changes what shareholders are gonna be accountable for it.

25:45And news takes up all the attention, of course. Can I ask you, putting people like this, is this a signal? What does Trump do? Because these are not Trumpy people. Well, Bobby's been conservative, but what are they doing here? They're obviously, one thing David Ellison said, which I thought was striking, when someone asked him, John Passatino at this press conference said, you know, you've been very political. Let's be clear. You've been sort of a suck up. And what are you doing now? And he said that was merger, that was a merger moment that we had to do at that time. Now we want to turn a page. I was sort of, it was both cynical and also accurate, I would say. And he wants to turn the page. Is that going to be effective or is he, does he need to stick with Trump?

26:36Well, for a certain amount of time, but all of these tech titans are cozying up to Democrats as much as they can save for Elon Musk, because they see at least some degree of divided government on the wall. And they don't want every single article that's published and every influencer, creator, reporter, journalist, whatever we're supposed to be called, to just be maligning them every time they get in front of a mic. I think, you know, that selective leaking of who's going to be power players or board members and all of this, they want people, you know, want Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway to say, these are good picks for the board, right? And, you know, Tony Blair is this incredible, right? But there is more to come.

27:19And I'm not saying it's all going to be bad, but I don't think the Ellisons, you know, wake up the day after the merger and they suddenly revert back to a different place, you know, politically. And I think the issues that really animate them politically are still very salient, you know, looking at tax codes and regulatory frameworks, thinking about Israel, absolutely. And that was going to be my question for you. You know, what do you think is going through Barry Weiss's mind right now as, you know, she continues to helm CBS and it will be a new age to some degree there? And how are you, CNN, feeling at this particular moment? It's good because we really haven't talked about how Kara feels about this.

28:03All right. Well, I don't usually live here, so I'm asking her. I had a really long talk with Lorene about it. And I'm not going to move into it. But I also, and I talked to Bobby about it. I think I just don't fundamentally trust them as media owners. And I did trust, I would trust the Lorene Jobs. I trust the Grams. I trust the Sulzbergers. Like, there is an element. and I really like Mark Thompson. Mark Thompson's not the owner. So I'm paying attention to the owners. Now, I think so far the record, when you inherit money or you are very wealthy and you buy something, I expect more of you, like the way Mrs. Graham sort of stepped up against her own interests to take on power, which is not easy, I have to say.

28:45And that was always my North Star. And I think what's really interesting here is, I think it's whether Larry's going to be running the show or David's going to be running the show. And that's the question. And I think they have a really complex father-son relationship. And I think that we'll see what happens here. I mean, the only thing to do is create a product people want to buy. That's, I mean, in terms of news or movies or streaming. And I think one of the problems is, I am a bit player. Scott's right. It doesn't really matter. But I do, I mean, I was joking. I'm the Lorax and I speak for the trees. I think I was talking, I'm speaking for journalism. But the real game is streaming and cutting costs and layoffs.

29:27And this story is about that. And CNN and the insane amount of attention that CBS gets because of Barry Weiss is meaningless because those numbers are going down. Like, it doesn't matter. Nobody's show of hands who watch CBS News is going down and down and down. So I think it's about how do you create a modern media company, and Scott is 100% right. There's not enough scale here, especially with the headwinds of technology, with this debt on top of it to really be, it's a real problematic situation from, I keep saying math, math, math is really problematic here. And so as much as hand-waving around her or anybody else, it hardly matters. It's irritating and upsetting as a journalist. So the only thing I would add to that is a father-son relationship that's complex

30:19is when your dad starts banging a flight attendant on Continental Airlines and then leaves and then moves to Ohio and you don't see him for a year. And then he shows up and he takes you and your best friend Adam to see Grease. And at the end of the movie, he collects two bucks from your friend Adam. Speaking of stories that never end like my CNN one. Then gets back in his Gran Torino and you don't see him for another 18 months. That's complex. That's a complex relationship. Giving your son $120 billion to go blame media, that's not that complex. Okay. Jess, welcome to Pivot. Oh, my God. Welcome to Pivot. There are certain thematic things. I like to defend journalists. He likes to talk about his father's failings and how they still play out today.

30:59It is amazing. I am as functional as I am. I know it's true. As functional as I am. As functional as you are. But don't worry. Jess and I will not be fighting over your estate. We'll just be enjoying ourselves on a yacht somewhere with David Ellison. Anyway. I'm leaving it all to destiny at Club 11 north of Miami. She loves me, Kara. She loves me. Oh, my God. All right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Jeff Bezos speaks out on AI. Support for the show comes from InGen. Running a small business means every dollar has to work hard. But if your team is still booking travel the old way, it's costing you more than you think. InGen is the fastest-growing travel and spend platform in the country,

31:46built specifically for businesses like yours. Book a trip in as little as two and a half minutes. Earn up to 10% back on hotels. And in 2025, Enjin customers save more than $300 million on travel, with zero booking fees, no contracts, and no BS. More than 1,000 businesses join InGen every month. Join them and get $500 when your business signs up and starts traveling at InGen.com. Support for this show comes from ShipStation. Remember those Black Friday videos of people crashing through mall doors at 5 a.m.? Well, for businesses trying to ship orders during the holiday season, they're kind of doing that in reverse, cramming a million packages through a single, outdated fulfillment system and without much help doing it.

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33:16That's ShipStation.com with code PIVOT. Taxes and fees apply. Support for the show comes from Maud. Maud prescribes a once or twice daily modafinil drink that can keep you energized, focused, and alert throughout the day. And here's what sets it apart. Energy drinks with caffeine temporarily block adenosine, the chemical that makes you tired. It builds up, and when the caffeine wears off off it all crashes down on you all at once. Modafinil works differently and engages multiple pathways in your brain dopamine, norepinephrine, histamine, and orexin to achieve steady energy and alertness for 10 to 12 hours. Modafinil was invented in the 1970s and since then it has been used by the highest performers on and off the

34:00planet. Soldiers, pilots, and even astronauts aboard the space station use modafinil in high-stakes Thank you. free shipping with promo code PIVOT. That's promo code PIVOT at mod.com. See their website for important safety information. And we thank Mod for sponsoring the pod. We're back with more news. Jeff Bezos says that AI could transform the American workweek, allowing people to support their families by working just three days a week or live comfortably on one income. In an interview with Fox News, Bezos predicted AI would boost productivity so much so that companies would actually struggle to find workers rather than replace them. Bezos also commented on regulation in the interview. Let's listen to a clip.

34:59Where sometimes regulation goes wrong, especially when people are scared, you know, reacting emotionally and so on, is they want to try to regulate the underlying thing instead of the applications of the thing. And so, you know, the simple example I could give you would be, you know, you don't want to regulate knives. You want to regulate murder. So, you know, you can use a knife to murder somebody, but you don't want to say the solution to that is to eliminate knives. You want to regulate murder. So, you know, you can use a knife to murder somebody, but you don't want to say the solution to that is to eliminate knives. Right. You want to say, let's make murder illegal. Oh, my God. It already is.

35:34Like, I just can't. This interview was ridiculous. First of all, he's like, I love the idea of superintelligence versus AI. And he's just become such a ridiculous suck-up. And in terms of what Bezos is saying here is, duh, like, I don't know what else to say. Yeah, let's regulate murder, including you make a product that's dangerous, you go to jail. Love it. Love the idea of that. But they're all trying to pretend that this is all going to be great because it's gone very wrong for them from a marketing point of view. And I think regular people get it. And so here he is calling regular people emotional. We're emotional about things that might affect us. You're damn right we're emotional. At least it wasn't only the women.

36:13Right. Because usually it's just those of us with the estrogen. Yeah, exactly. And I just feel like these people continue to dismiss regular people's normal and legitimate concerns. And I think it's going to bounce back on them. And they look like, they all look like the Monopoly man on, you know, they look like the Gilded Age. And they're so out of touch with regular people that it's become almost ridiculous. Yeah, I would just say that you can see as Bezos is talking to Brett Baier that he's running through all of the criticisms of Amazon and, you know, how he treats his employees, because the contrast between, you know, you'll be able to have a three-day work week and you spend more time with your family versus the fact

36:57that there are people not getting paid enough who are having to pee in bottles because they can't miss, you know, the next delivery because we've now been trained to think we can get something between 4 and 8 a.m. when we push, you know, purchase by midnight is the sheen that he wants to give himself and doing it at Blue Origin. You know, it's very cool, obviously, what's going on. And it's the focus he wants on the spectacular, oh, my God, I can't believe we're doing this kinds of things. But to your point about the regular people, they're not thinking about Blue Origin as much as they're thinking about, will my job be here tomorrow? Or is a data center popping up in my backyard? And is our government actually refusing to participate in any sort of regulatory framework

37:44that might protect society. Not that they want to be backwards and poor, as Trump would put it, but that they want to know that folks in positions of leadership are hearing them and understanding their anxieties and would actually put people over profits for once. Every major technology that has increased productivity, and I agree with him, AI will make us more productive, but everyone has been sold with the same promise, the internet, the PC, the washing machine, and that is this will free up your time. That's the promise. And in every case, instead of working less, we've absorbed the productivity gains into doing more, not resting more, and shareholders have benefited from those productivity gains.

38:28Keynes predicted a 15-hour workweek back at the beginning of the 20th century any enterprise in the world on AI is, okay, bitch, when and where exactly is your workforce going to reduce their hours from a man who has created a system where, as Jess referenced, his drivers can't take bathroom breaks. So, Jeff, memo to Amazon employees, according to Jeff Bezos, who spends more on AI than anyone in the world, your work week is about to go to what, four days, three days? Jeff, when's it going to happen? But he says people are going to be rewarded. And this is not the case. You're right. He has taken advantage of people's work more than anyone in terms of efficiency. Years ago, one of these congressmen, they were putting an Amazon warehouse in a town, and he said, they tell me it's good for jobs. I said, they're going to automate the thing

39:31as soon as they can. They're not telling you that part. And I think this promise that Elon has made that we'll all be in abundance and we won't have to work is just nonsense at this point. I don't know how we're going to pay for it with our deficit, speaking of deficits, how we're going to do it. But it's also not what people want. That's the thing. It's reminiscent to me of the conversations that we were having, you know, 10 years ago about coal miners, right? And, you know, putting people out of it and you'll learn to code or we're moving to all renewables. And I'm not saying that we don't have to innovate and we don't have to progress, especially if it means taking care of our planet. But sometimes I feel like these tech guys are just speaking like Klingon to regular people who are not

40:17mad about the fact that they need to work a full day. They want to do it. They're proud people. Very good point. full day. They want to do it. They're proud people. And politicians and tech folks sometimes really misunderstand the character of American people, which is strong. And the dignity of work underpins all of this. Yeah. Don't you want to sit on a yacht like we do? Yeah. Right. Like, wouldn't you love to be able to, like, put on some, you know, Google glasses and like beam into your job for three out of five days? And they say, I'm not mad at a nine to five, a nine to six. I don't mind working with my hands. I don't mind getting dirty. I want to put in the work so my kid can have a better life. That's what the American dream is. And they're rewriting it in their own crazy brains

41:01in a way that does not fit with average people. You know, one of the quotes I read this week from Neil deGrasse Tyson, I thought was perfect. He goes, I've come to conclude that AI knows everything yet understands nothing. And I feel that way about these tech people. I'm like, they know everything, they understand nothing. And they're so out of touch. Someone like Bezos is so out of touch with people's real lives. People want dignity of work. They want to be paid well. They want health care. And that's why, you know, whatever you think of a lot of the DSA stuff, this stuff is resonating with young people. Universal health care, decent wage, they're they're all sort of they all look like freak shows in a way that we don't want to be you.

41:55Right. You know, I think you're a longevity show. Yeah, I feel like that was on display. And it reminds me of that last moment of the Devil Wears Prada where they're in the car, the first movie, where she goes, everyone wants to be us. Andy, everyone wants to be us, kind of thing. And she gets out of the car. And that's what I feel like. We want to get out of your car, you people. We don't want to be like you. Anyway, we have to move on. One more quick break and we'll be back for predictions. Ask yourself, what are your best people spending their time on right now? Expense reports, receipt chasing, month-end close that takes weeks. You become what you spend on, and that's not what you're building toward.

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43:32Take advantage of this offer while it lasts. Terms apply. As soon as autumn rolls around and you swap your iced lattes for pumpkin spice, that's your signal to start thinking about the holidays. Soon as autumn rolls around and you swap your iced lattes for pumpkin spice, that's your signal to start thinking about the holidays. The decor, the gifts, the shopping lists, but more importantly, the holiday treats. Cheesecakes, cookies, is there anything better? And when the recipe calls for cream cheese, there's only one option. Philadelphia, the original cream cheese. made with fresh milk and real cream. This holiday season, whether you're going all out or keeping it simple, make it really Philly good.

44:29Find your favorite holiday recipe at creamcheese.com. Let's hear a prediction. We have time for one short prediction because of my lack of knowledge about central time. This one's easy. Within five years, bankers will make more money. Time Warner, every CEO who buys Time Warner gives the exact same speech. They use the term synergies, every other line. And then in five years, the same CEO will be saying, we need to focus on our core business and start splitting this thing apart or selling it. Basically, Time Warner has destroyed more shareholder value than a Peloton at a WeWork. This thing is a hot potato with the debt of Greece. Everyone buys it. Everyone thinks they have a vision for it. They can't sustain the debt. It starts fucking with their

45:13core business, and they decide five years on that they're going to sell it. Dad has paid $120 billion so his son could play media. It's not going to be worth it. After three or four years of declining revenues, somebody like a Zaslav is going to make a bunch of money selling it yet again. Within five years, whatever we're calling this, Time Warner, Skydance, HBO Max, Joey Bag of Donuts, this thing will be sold again or split up for parts. Okay. The Nobel Peace Prize for 2026 will be announced on the day this episode airs. We're taping on Thursday. So let's make some predictions. It's probably going to be either Doctors Without Borders or Sudan's emergency response rooms. Well, it's not Donald Trump.

45:57That's my prediction. Who would you like it to be? Mark Carney. I feel Mark Carney. Mark Carney is going to have a big year for sure. He'll be man of the year. I don't think he'll get this. He'll be man of the year. It's too early also in the cycle. I feel like once Canada's really like a EU satellite and maybe, you know, he and Zelensky do some more together. I like that. The Pope? Oh, and his AI thing was the most interesting. That's right. Magnificent, magnificent humanity. The Pope. I'm going to go with the Pope. I'm going Pope. Pope. We're going Pope. I changed my mind on Time Warner. It'll be successful if they can convince Macross, Alensky, and Carney to do like a Cinemax style soft porn drama.

46:37Skinemax. And I think it works. Skinemax. And I think it works. That's my porn. As always, Scott comes in with the erudite part of it. Anyway, I'm really sorry for being late. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions on business tech or whatever's on your mind. We were so worried. Oh, my God. We were so worried. Go to nmymag.com. Your father's so worried. To submit a question for the show, or call 855-51-PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe, this week on On with Kara Swisher, I spoke with writer Justine Musk and filmmaker Alex Gibney ahead of the release of Musk, the four-hour Elon documentary. Let's listen to a clip. There's that joke that he used to make, like safety third. And, you know, when we're going

47:17into the era of AI, you have to wonder about that because of his sense that, you know, it has to be now, now, now, no matter the cost. Right. Yeah, those 70 people don't matter. It's just the cost of the business. Or the, you know, the animals at Neuralink don't matter. And the pain and the trauma that other people go through because of, you know, the way reality gets wrenched around or the way that value gets determined, who has it and who doesn't. Like, that doesn't matter. That's just, you know, feelings. So we'll just, you know, brush that aside. Ruin Western civilization. And the entire interview will be in the Pivot podcast feed on Sunday. So check it out here. Reminder, Scott and I are hitting the road next month for a Pivot tour.

48:10Get tickets at pivottour.com. Toronto is sold out. We're getting close in a lot of cities. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. And Jess, thank you for filling in and calming the waters for me. We'll be back next week. Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Todd Wiseman. Ernie and her Todd engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Brosman, Yusuf Ibrahim, Dan Shalan, and Shaq Karwaz, Vox Media's executive producer for our podcast. Make sure to call Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Thanks to our great co-host of Raging Moderates, Jess Tarlow, for stepping in.

48:48Cara, thank God you're back. And it's pretty clear that the dog is going to take Justine Musk and Lauren Sanchez to Club Med Puerto Vallarta together. It could happen. It could never happen. still booking travel the old way, it's costing you more than you think. InGen is the fastest growing travel and spend platform in the country, built specifically for businesses like yours. Book a trip in as little as two and a half minutes. Earn up to 10% back on hotels. And in 2025, InGen customers save more than $300 million on travel with zero booking fees, no contracts, and no BS. More than 1,000 businesses join InGen every month. Join them and get $500 when your business signs up and starts traveling at InGen.com.

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