What did Martin Seligman say about learned helplessness on Modern Wisdom?

Martin Seligman told Chris Williamson that in his 1960s and 1970s experiments, people and animals exposed to noise or shock they could not stop became deeply passive and were slow to notice later when escape worked. On average about five in eight became helpless. The three in eight who did not turned out to be optimists, and a matched group that could switch the noise off did fine, even better than controls.

• Seligman's human version used headphones, a loud noise and a button that did nothing, then a six-foot shuttle box the next day.
• Seligman says he first tried to sweep the resistant minority under the rug, then spent about 10 more years finding that optimism explained them.

▸In their words

“Three out of every eight people, three out of every eight animals didn't become helpless.” Martin Seligman · at 6:46 — open in the transcript →

Source: our own transcription of the episode. The full conversation is on Modern Wisdom (2026-10-24). Read the whole episode summary →

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