What does Book One of Utopia say about hanging thieves and sheep eating men?

Laura Ashe recounts how Hythloday, at Cardinal Morton's house, argues against a lawyer pleased that 20 thieves at a time are being executed: death is unjust for a stolen coin and will not deter a starving man. Joanne Paul links this to enclosure, as common land was fenced for wool-trade sheep, leaving people to starve, so that the sheep devour men. Karl Marx cited the passage in Das Kapital.

• Morton responds by proposing to test the idea on condemned criminals, which Ashe reads as More's model of a good royal counsellor.
• Paul says Marx's own copy of Utopia has the passage underlined and the page turned over.

▸In their words

“there's no way you should lose your life for stealing a coin.” Laura Ashe · at 35:12 — open in the transcript →

Source: our own transcription of the episode. The full conversation is on In Our Time (2026-10-15). Read the whole episode summary →

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