The After Show: Help Dale Find Dee

0:00This show is sponsored by Progressive Insurance. Insurance isn't one size fits all. That's why drivers have enjoyed Progressive's Name Your Price tool for years now. With the Name Your Price tool, you tell them what you want to pay, and they'll show you options that fit your budget. So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, they make it easy to see your options. Visit Progressive.com to find a rate that works for you with the Name Your Price tool, Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, price and coverage match limited by state law. Hi, everybody. Welcome to 2020 The After Show. I'm Debra Roberts, and it's good to have you with us. As always, we're going to take you behind the scenes and

0:42do a deeper look at one of our most recent 2020 episodes called Help Dale Find Dee. And we're going to also take a deeper look at the people at the heart of the story, the things that we don't always get a chance to show you on Friday night. So today we're going inside the story of Dee Warner, a mom and a successful businesswoman in rural Michigan who vanished without a trace from her family farm, where she had lived with her husband and their nine-year-old daughter. Well, oddly, her cars were still parked in the driveway. Her wedding ring was left behind on a desk in her husband's office. So understandably, people were wondering, why would she just pack up and walk away from what seemed to be a pretty happy life from the outside looking in.

1:30Well, this story was absolutely heartbreaking and utterly captivating, too, at the same time, in large part because of the talented journalist who brought it to us. You know her from her years of reporting here at ABC. She's the anchor of ABC News Live Prime and World News Sunday. She's a colleague and a friend. Lindsay Davis is joining us for the first time on our podcast. Lindsay, thank you for having me. You cleaned up beautifully. I knew I was sitting down with you. You always do. You always do. But it's great to have you in for us to get a chance to chat. Full disclosure, you and I are friends outside of the office. We see each other a lot and we're always passing each other in the hallway, maybe giving snippets of what we're

2:04working on. But this is the first time you've done a story for us. And I'm so glad because as you know, the news cycle is so fast and furious. And so normally I'm just doing kind of like, what is the day of? And then we're moving on to the next thing the next day. And as you described, this is a deeper dive. 2020 allows you to take that time and linger a little longer and really get to know the the characters and and really understand and and a curious mind like we both have and you know kind of peering behind and peeling back the onion um it's really a great opportunity well i want to talk about the story but first i want to talk about you because some people here may not necessarily know you. You report on politics.

2:46You report on, as you said, day of on your nightly show. Tell us a little bit about your passion. I mean, I know you had a similar, I think, rise in the business as I did. Sure. Worked in local news and made your way to ABC. So talk a little bit about your passion for this business. Sure. So when I was third year in college, I just kind of had this epiphany that that's what I want to do. I was in Spain watching the news in Spanish. I should have understood much better than I did, but it was kind of like, you know, Charlie Brown's mom, wah, wah, wah, wah. And I just, it really actually sharpened the moment for me because I wasn't listening. I was just really tuned in to the idea, the craft. And in that moment, because I really thought I was going

3:33to be a psychologist, there were so many other things. And in that moment, I thought, I'm naturally a curious person. I like to ask questions. I'd love to write. I like public speaking. And it just kind of felt like they all blended together so perfectly as a journalist. And I'm not great at math. I think a lot of journalists have actually made that declaration. Well, this story, and of course, this is the first time you've kind of delved into true crime. You do so many other stories sometimes that touch on this. but it is sort of interesting to me you know we cover these stories weekly and many times there are women at the center of these these crimes sadly and in this case there is a woman and women are very attracted to these stories too so

4:16let's talk about Dee Warner a mom and you and I were talking about this I happened to pass you yesterday and we were talking about her a 52 year-year-old woman, a mom. She and her husband, Dale, had kind of a blended family, right? She had kids. They were mostly grown when this happened, and they had a nine-year-old together. So give me a sense of your feet. This is rural Michigan. You go out. You're going to meet some of the family and friends. What was your take initially? So, well, first, and it was brought to me when the EP of 2020, Janice Johnson and Joseph, they came into the office and they were telling me the background and without knowing the conclusion. So it's you have these two families that were big, prominent farm families in Michigan.

4:58They were kind of rivals. And then they're having an affair and end up leaving their spouses, marrying each other, bringing those blended families together. And then, as you say, they have the nine-year-old daughter together. But it was really like a whodunit because there were so many. She had gotten into an argument with one of her employees at the trucking company. Her husband is saying, well, look, you know, she was feeling kind of dark and going down a rabbit hole of like, maybe nobody will care if I'm here. She has all these medications because she had migraine headaches. So he's opening up the cabinets for police. And so it was before I knew the end, I was thinking there were a number

5:43of people. The husband's also talking about a burner phone, and maybe she had, you know, an affair. And so it really was the classic whodunit. And again, just being able to travel and meet with, I was able to interview one of her daughters. And it was just fascinating to, even though this story had already concluded, for the most part, just going back in time to walking through the paces of, for example, the day that she first went missing. Yeah, and let's talk about that too. So you set the scene of her being, you know, these two having this kind of complicated relationship and drama in the town, but they are together, presumably doing very well. And you described her as like this really, you know, big businesswoman. I mean, she's doing what

6:33a lot of women do, kind of a universal story. She's juggling a lot of different things. They've got a farm. She's got a trucking company that basically she runs. Exactly. And so she's really this woman kind of in a man's world, if you will, in the trucking company, in the farming industry. But it turns out that the farms weren't really the lucrative aspect. It was the trucking company that was in her name. And so while they had kind of built this empire together, and for all intents and purposes, when you're looking, when you drive up, we're in rural Tipton, Michigan. And when you get there, it's really just, you know, farmland and cattle. Right. So they have this million dollar home that really sticks out. She's got, you know,

7:14Hummer, all these fancy cars that even though her office and home are just really a few yards away, she's driving this big Hummer, you know, from one place to the other. She always has her nails done, her makeup done, her hair. She's really fancy, not what you would typically consider. She's not a farm wife. Not exactly. And so big personality, feisty. You know, even her children describe her as being a really bombastic kind of person. Let's go back to April 25th, 2021. So she's missing. describe her as being a really bombastic kind of person. Let's go back to April 25th, 2021. So she's missing. She and her daughter Raquel typically have, what, Sunday breakfast or something together. Raquel comes to the house and her mother's missing. Her mother's missing, which she initially, right off the bat, thinks this is strange.

8:01So she's texting her mother. She's calling her mother, she's calling her mother, and she said that her mom is the kind of person who is always going to answer the phone, no matter what the circumstances. So right away, she's thinking, something is off here. They, though, continue and make the breakfast. She's asking Dale, where is Dee? Where's my mom? Oh, I don't know. You know, I left. I've been out on the farm. Not sure. But he doesn't seem worried about it as her daughter is. And as they continue, you know, the kids are calling each other. Have you heard from mom? Nobody's heard from her. You know, it's getting wider in the family. Her brother gets involved. And what's kind of concerning all of them is that Dale doesn't seem worried.

8:50That concern. Hmm. He said that maybe they had had, you know, they have fights and maybe she had decided to go and storm off. What did you learn about their relationship, though? You said that these two had, you know, left their spouses. They're together. Presumably now they're happy. But they had a pretty tumultuous relationship, you reported in the piece. So Raquel, her daughter who I interviewed, said that her mom had told her that this was the night she was going to confront Dale and say the marriage is over. And so it gets to the point where she actually had planned it where her nine-year-old daughter, she has her stay somewhere else because she's anticipating it's going to be a big fight.

9:31Well, he told investigators that it was just a little argument. And let's take a listen to what he told the police when they questioned him at the farm the day after Dee went missing. All right, so you're just basically saying drag her feet, she's going to turn up. That's what kind of you're saying, you don't expect foul play. Dee went missing. And she shows up tomorrow. Well, the flags that I'm seeing aren't the ones that are scaring me as far as anything other than, I mean, she left the ring here. I mean, that's a big one. She took some money cash. I mean, our daughter's the biggest one. Right. Right. Absolutely. I just want her to go home. Now, what did you make of this? Now, you jump into this story.

10:18And one of the things that's so, I think, intriguing about this podcast is we get a chance to talk a little bit more than we did in the piece. What was your take on this whole notion when you got there, the idea that he would say she just disappeared? I mean, you knew ultimately what happened, but did that make sense to you? Well, I have to say in a police body camera footage, he seems cool as a cucumber. He's welcomed them on the property. He's willing to answer the questions. He seems just so casual. His behavior, his body language doesn't seem suspicious. He does lead on to the fact that Dee has a burner phone, you know, and this was not unusual for her to disappear. And that's behavior that her family did back up. And so he seemed

11:09very credible, I have to say. And I'm a suspicious person. And even knowing at that point what I knew, but I thought, wow, he handled that very well, really well. Which is why police weren't that alarmed in the very beginning by hearing his story. What was interesting is that we heard something when you talked to Raquel that we've heard in a lot of these episodes that we've done when a woman is having some problems in her marriage, where she tells someone, and in this case, Raquel says she told you that she watched two crime shows, and she actually said something that was kind of chilling. If something happens to me, possibly Dale is capable of this? She told her daughter, because this was something that she enjoyed watching, like millions of Americans.

11:52She said, I could see Dale doing something like that to me. Wow. And that was something that obviously, as it would for anybody, stuck in her daughter's head that her mother felt that this was possible for her stepfather to take her life. And furthermore, Dee's brother finds it so disconcerting that Dale is not actively looking for his sister, for Dee. And so he takes out a billboard, a huge billboard in Tipton, Michigan, that says, help Dale find Dee. Basically saying, Dale, why aren't you doing enough to doing anything to try to find your wife? Essentially calls him out on it. Well, the family does take matters into their own hands. And don't go anywhere because that is a key point. We're going to talk about that.

12:40The mystery of Dee's disappearance goes on for more than a year. The family does take matters into their own hands. And we're going to get into how they did that and the questions that began to surround Dale after we take a quick break. And we're going to hear more of Lindsay's interview with her daughter, Dee's daughter, Raquel. So don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Over My Dead Body Operation Sideswipe, a podcast from Audible. A trucker merges onto I-10 in New Orleans. He checks his mirrors, the lane is clear, and then boom, impact. A pickup truck scrapes down the side of his 18-wheeler. Multiple passengers inside. One man flees the scene, and the driver of the pickup doesn't seem all that upset. It didn't feel like a regular accident,

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14:18she flew, finding just the right one and for years it will last. Wayfair shipping was free and remarkably fast. What's this? Garland? A wreath? Essentials to host? Good thing she celebrates way longer than most. As her cart filled with magic and decor from the heart, Merry Christmas to all. Get your Wayfair head start. For holiday decor you can count on year after year, Wayfair delivers. Hey, welcome back to 2020 The After Show. I'm here with my colleague, Lindsay Davis, who investigated our most recent 2020 episode called Help Dale Find Dee. It's the story of a Michigan mom and businesswoman, Dee Warner, and her disappearance. And Lindsay's been filling us in on the details of the family and their life.

15:06You talked about how she was thinking of leaving her husband, which is pretty big stuff. Did he know that she was thinking of it? It's not clear that he knew prior to that. Clearly, they had a tumultuous marriage and relationship. Things weren't great. Things weren't great. And so this seems that that particular night, things were coming to a head. Now, why this is a particular concern, potentially for Dale, in addition to the fact that he may have loved his wife, is the money. Because she ran the trucking company. She controlled the bulk of the money. The trucking company was the moneymaker. So now if they split up, he's going to lose the money. Yeah. And that is, well, a key factor if somebody is worried about, right, his wife leaving him.

15:56Well, the marriage was described, as you said, as volatile. There were no incidents of domestic violence reported to police. But her friend Stephanie, Dee's friend, actually did talk to 20-20 about their relationship. Let's take a listen. They were in an argument in her bedroom and he got upset and pushed her and she fell and hit her head on the dresser. It was the next morning she came in and showed me the goose bump on her head. I just remember distinctly asking her, like, Dee, why is this okay? So her friends were concerned. Clearly, this was a relationship that was trouble. And there were allegations that he actually put a tracking device on her car. So Raquel tells me that her mother had come to her and said, you know, I feel like

16:46Dale is following me. And so they take a look at her car. There is a tracking device when they take the car into the mechanic. But Dale said, oh, I was just trying to figure out something with the car. I wasn't I wasn't trying, to track her. Well, your interviews were so compelling. And as I said, you spoke with Raquel, her daughter, you had a chance to really hear her side of the story. And there were parts of your interview, which is one of the things we like to share with you here on the podcast. There were things that we didn't get to hear on Friday night. So let's hear a little bit more of your interview with Raquel that talked about how Dale could possibly have a hand in this. Let's take a listen.

17:26Was he doing anything to try to find your mom? No. I really don't think he did anything at all to find her. I don't think he even called the hospitals. I don't think he, he did not show up to the searches on foot. I mean, he didn't call the law enforcement. And even when the law enforcement showed up to talk to him about her being reported missing, he still was like, I don't think she's missing. I mean, it was never urgent to find her at all. This is a small town. Were there signs? Was there an active buzz in the community about where's Dee Warner? Yes. So we had Justice for Dee signs made and people bought them, people donated for them everywhere. I mean there were yellow signs saying Justice for D everywhere. We had wristbands for Justice

18:36for D and we had pens. We had, I mean we just, anything we could do to shout from the rooftops of, like, we need help from our community, we did. And Dale was not part of that? No. There was actually a sign put in his yard, and he took it immediately. Took it down? Yes. So those signs, people calling for justice for Dee, there were iPad searches. I mean, this thing was starting to get a little bit more. The cloud of suspicion is sort of hanging around Dale a little bit. In fact, just weeks after her disappearance, later on, detectives were able to find that Dale had searched for, how do you bury a thousand gallon propane tank. And so that's why investigators are under the belief that she's buried underground somewhere.

19:30Wow. So the idea that this woman is missing and it's so fascinating to us, she's missing, nobody's found a body. Two years go by, two years go by, Dee's still missing. And, you know, there's suspicion, there's circulation of, you know, of all of these rumors. But police ultimately look at Dale, right? And in November of 2023, they arrest him. They actually charge him with murder. Without a body. Without a body, which is so intriguing. And tampering with evidence, which is pretty remarkable for them to make an arrest without a body. And we've done many stories here on 2020 where this happens, but ultimately they just could not ignore the fact that this seems so suspicious. And there's something in Michigan, it often happens in particular,

20:14where it's open murder, where the prosecutors don't necessarily have the first degree or second degree. You're able to let the jury decide. But it wasn't until, you know, a good amount of time, I believe a year later, that they found Dee's body. And so at that point, it was a pretty open and closed case. And they call it open murder. Right. So that's the way they were able to do this. And this is, I mean, obviously for the family, this had to just be heart-wrenching too. I mean, looking inside your family, it's bad enough that they sort of, some of the family members suspected this, but to actually see that Dale is being charged with Dee's murder had to be just wrenching. And Raquel talks about just how she was on pins and needles, hoping that he would

21:00be found guilty, hoping that he would be arrested, hoping that he would be convicted. And so, as you mentioned, years are going in between from the mom's disappearance to him actually being arrested, to him actually being found guilty of murder, which just happened recently. And they describe this as such a relief. In fact, she had been holding off getting married because she just wanted some closure first with her mom. Yeah, which is, you know, understandable. So he, years go by, and that was what was so, I think, just so captivating, but also so oddly, tragically compelling in this story. They don't find the body, but then ultimately they do go to a fertilizer tank. They cut it open and they find Dee's body, which for the family,

21:52on the one hand, there's relief. On the other hand, there's a horrible conclusion. A horrible conclusion. And Raquel, even though this had happened, you know, back in 2021, when we're talking to her now, you know, more than five years later, she had just kind of asked and answered because this is where she finally does just break down and that emotion comes through because it's been so prolonged and so dragged out for such a long time where you're just waiting to find out. And this is going back to, as you talked about earlier, she had said her mom had given her that kind of warning, that she had that premonition when she was watching the true crime show that Dale could do this to me. And the way her body was found too, the medical examiner said her mouth had been taped shut.

22:56And she'd been strangled. Which an investigator didn't say this, but the idea that her mouth was taped shut, you can anticipate that there was a torment in her death, right? And so that he was just trying to keep her quiet so that she wouldn't rouse anybody or draw any attention to this. And it just adds to the pain of it all, that it was so brutal. It was brutal. And Lindsay, I have to tell you, I mean, even as we sit here and talk about it now, we've seen your report. Many people have seen it. Some may be seeing it now for the first time after this podcast. But as a reporter, you know, we often sit down and we're talking to people about the worst days of their lives. And I've talked to people

23:39like this, where the mom and the daughter had a bond and something happened like this. How is she doing, Raquel, and the rest of the family today? So Raquel got engaged. And after all of this was the closure that they've been looking for for years. And her fiance put her mom's birthstone in the engagement ring, which she felt was just so special. And she said that it had been so important for her mom for her to get married. And so she is, it's still heavy. This is something that she'll, they'll never be the same. But she is moving forward, which, you know, her mom would obviously want. Yeah, which is important. And I'm sure her mom would have. But family's destroyed. And you think about that young daughter who now has lost her mom and now lost her father, essentially.

24:28Lost her father, right. In prison. Well, you know, Lindsay, you brought such depth and such, you know, a personal touch to this story, and you really do feel it for this family. As I said, and we said earlier, this is a universal story. We hear it often about women who are in these dire situations and many times trying to get themselves out of it. And it becomes very difficult. Experts point out that the most dangerous time for a victim is when they're about to actively leave somebody. So when we come back, and I think this is so important, Lindsay, don't go anywhere and don't you go anywhere. Because we're going to talk to an emergency room psychiatrist about how to safely leave a volatile relationship and the resources that actually are out there that could keep you or someone you love safe.

25:12So stay with us. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. Welcome back to 2020 The After Show. I'm sitting here with Lindsay Davis who brought our most recent 2020 episode called Help Dale Find Dee, which centered around the disappearance of Dee Warner, a Michigan business owner and mom who ultimately was found dead and her husband was actually convicted of her death. Well, friends and family said

26:05that she was about to leave her marriage. And according to the National Domestic Abuse Outline, exiting a relationship is the most unsafe time for a victim, typically a woman. And on average, it takes a victim seven times to leave before they actually stay away for good. So we wanna talk a little bit more about that and leave you with something that you might be able to use in case you know of somebody who might be in a situation. So joining us now is emergency room psychiatrist, Dr. Adjoa Smalls-Monte, who has been with us a few times before. Doctor, welcome. Thank you. Good to have you. Good to see you again. Good to have you. Well, Lindsay reported on this story. And, you know, for a lot of people, this is something that they recognize. And you're

26:46right there on the front lines. You've seen these kinds of incidents where women are about to leave. Give us some ideas here about how they can avoid the danger in this difficult situation. A lot of the danger comes from, like you said, when you're about to leave. And that's because the perpetrator is about to lose control. And abuse is all about control. When they feel like they're about to lose it, they want to rein you back in. They're going to try to monitor you. They're going to try to control you. And when they feel like they have lost control when you might have left, then they feel like there's no need to have any more restraint. They've already lost the game. So why try to be on their best behavior?

27:24And even when someone has left and you think that you're okay and you're safe, sometimes there can be prolonged separations, a long process, especially if children are involved. There can be custody hearings. There can be court dates, things where you are meeting at predicted times. And so that gives many opportunities for someone to maybe plan to do something that can be dangerous. And many people, I think many of us are guilty of saying, why doesn't she just leave, right? But for those who ask that question, what are they misunderstanding about abusive relationships? When you're saying, why didn't someone just leave? You're assuming a lot of things that the person that is still in an abusive relationship has freedom and that there is no risk

28:06and that's not the case in an abusive relationship there's a lack of freedom because there might be constrained resources you may not have the money you may not have the transportation a place to stay you can have responsibilities whether there are kids involved you can have pets you may not even psychologically be aware that you are being abused. And then there can be a lot of things that might keep a person there because they are worried about social isolation. They may not find another partner, religious reasons. And also you're assuming that they haven't tried. And like you said, sometimes people have tried seven times to get away. So what behavior should people be thinking about that might be a tip off that this could

28:49really end in something volatile and dangerous and violent? If you see someone starting to escalate their control over you or over someone that you are concerned is an abusive relationship that's a definite tip off and that control can look like they're following someone, they're tracking someone, they're maybe popping up at places where the person is known to be, they could be monitoring your finances, our phones, they're searching your social media, your searches, they might increase their violence against you, then apologize and try to rein you back in. They might also try to isolate you from people that could be of help. The key word is control here. And you talked about that isolation because we see that it's like a textbook scenario.

29:33What should family members do or friends do who are concerned that they're witnessing this with a loved one? The first thing is to have an open conversation with that person. Make sure you're choosing a safe time to approach someone where you have a little bit of time to really explore this subject. And it's not just, I think this is happening to you. How are you doing? Just open it up like that. See what they're giving to you. And then you can say, I noticed this. Is this happening? The person might confirm it. They might deny it. I have had many patients that deny something is happening, even though it is very clear. And they're scared of this person said, if I tell someone they're going to do something even worse to me. And resources. So what's

30:15available out there to help people who may not feel that they have the opportunity to get out? So if you're trying to plan a getaway, there are certain resources like the National Domestic Violence Hotline that can help you plan. There's also Safe Horizon, which is the largest domestic violence and victim services agency in the country that can help you plan, that can help you find domestic violence shelters. A lot of cities and states also have victim services departments, like there's one in New York State and D.C. and they can offer officers that can help you leave a place, get to a safe place. But if you are in an emergency, I want you to get away ASAP. You can go to a police department.

30:57You can call 911. You can go to the hospital. We all get sick at any time. You can go there and a doctor has to examine you privately. That is a way that you can get away as well. But you just, if you are in mortal danger, get away. So important, get away. Well, Dr. Smalls-Monte and Lindsay, so great to have you with us. And thank you to our listeners for choosing to spend your time with us. And of course, if you're experiencing abuse, you can get help by reaching out to the National Domestic Violence Hotline, if you're experiencing abuse, you can get help by reaching out to the National Domestic Violence Hotline, as you heard here, for confidential support 24-7, 365 days a year. They can be reached at 1-800-799-7233.

31:37And of course, you can find us, 2020, on Friday nights on ABC, and you can stream episodes like this one anytime on Disney Plus and Hulu. Good to see you, and thanks so much for being here. Take care. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. This holiday, all plans, even unlimited, are just $15 a month. A holiday deal this good obviously deserves an enormously expensive holiday song like all i want right okay we can't afford

32:26that you don't forget the music budget we're gonna stick with whatever's in the public domain give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch upfront payment of 45 for three months 90 for six months or 180 for 12 month plan required 15 per month equivalent taxes and fees extra new customer offer for initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy see terms