#352 Cain Velasquez - UFC Champion Hunted the Man Accused of Abusing His 4-Year-Old Son

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0:43a limited lifetime warranty, and the Happy with Helix guarantee for returns and exchanges. Go to helixsleep.com slash SRS for 20% off site-wide. That's helixsleep.com slash SRS for 20% off site-wide. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you. Cain Velasquez, welcome to the show, man. Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming. So, yeah, we have a mutual friend, and he had mentioned your name to me, and, dude, I was just over the moon to have you, and so it's really an honor to have you here brother thank you for coming thank you but um yeah before we get started um man i just want to say that i really respect you know what you did and um i think everybody knows what i'm talking about and uh

1:48like standing up for kids that are going through exploitation you know dealing with predators and stuff has been it's been a huge topic on on my platform and it's it's like the one thing that is the nearest and dearest to my heart is helping parents protect their kids and bring awareness to kids on how this kind of stuff is happening. Because it's happening more and more and more and more as time goes on. And the amount of predators that are online, it's just, it's atrocious that seems like an unfixable problem and um you could go after all of them and i wish people would but i think that the uh i think the only way out of this is is is uh educating the public on what they can do, you know,

2:45as parents to protect their kids from this stuff, to talk to them about it, which me and you were just talking about earlier, and to bring awareness to kids. And we've displayed in real time how that stuff happens online and offline from every organization you can possibly think of sports churches educational systems um everything you know they're they're everywhere and uh so so like i said man i just i just want you to know it's a real honor to have you here thank you thank you yeah um Yeah, it is about awareness. These things have been part of our society or it's been part of everyday life forever. But the only way, I think, to really get past this on a positive level is awareness. Speaking to your kids at an early age you know i know we're like oh they're so young we don't want to like

3:54instill these states of mind in them you know to be aware of certain things out there because they're so young but it's a must because that happens. So educate your kids on what's appropriate and what's not. And that no matter what, they're always going to have a free place to come and speak their mind, and they're not going to get judged out of it. They won't get judged. They won't get you know shot away like the words are valid their experiences are valid so it's creating that safe space between you and your child you can come to me with whatever it doesn't matter I'm not going to get mad at you like no you come to me with truth and we not going to get mad at you. Like, no, like, no. You come to me with truth,

4:46and we're going to get through this together." And being aware, showing awareness of this, talking about it, showing it to the public, then it puts those that are doing these things, it puts them in a place of they have to pay their dues, you know? Like, that's the only way. But if you keep it hushed or if your kids say something and you don't take that into account of what they said and you think, oh, maybe they meant something else. Like, no, no. Like, that's not the way to do it. And they think, oh, okay, well, I'll just take you away from that situation. It's still going to happen to somebody else. And that's the same thing as it happened to your child it's still growing people aren't aren't being you

5:31know processed in the way they should you know people that need to be um go through the system of being incarcerated and all that like they have to be shown all it has to be shed light on yeah yeah man the, heavy topic. We'll dive into it in a little bit here, too. But I want to do a life story on you. So, you know, starting from childhood all the way up until now. And so I wanted to give you an introduction first. Cain Velasquez, you're a former two-time UFC heavyweight champion, widely regarded as one of the most dominant heavyweights in MMA history, known for your relentless pace, wrestling, and conditioning. A lifelong martial artist, you have come to view fighting as much more than physical competition,

6:20embracing its spiritual dimensions while exploring psychedelics self-discovery and personal transformation after serving time in prison you emerged with a new purpose helping others heal through your own practice ascension breath which you introduced to fellow inmates and continue to teach today once again welcome to the show thank you so I have a I have a patreon account it's a subscription account and they've been with me since I started this thing in my attic about five or five six years ago and and so one of the things I do is I offer them the opportunity to ask every guest a question. And this is from Mick Colon. You've spent your entire career learning discipline, composure, and how to handle pressure in the toughest situations imaginable.

7:25As a fighter, and more importantly, as a father, how have those challenges you faced outside the octagon changed your perspective on what it truly means to be strong? So, yeah, I learned a lot from, well, everything I did, I learned from. So I learned a lot about myself through wrestling, through fighting. What are my limitations? And I realized there are none unless the ones that I put on myself. I learned to really kill myself every day in training. Every moment, give myself to that every moment moment every day um to where there's nothing more i can give like i i've gave it all i i didn't i didn't hold back right um from everything that i've learned from winning losing having um spotlight on me having to have me open up to people to strangers to a mass audience i guess

8:30um i've learned over everything to be strong is to be your authentic self and to come with truth truth is love and wisdom um love and wisdom and love could be in so many different ways it could be unconditional yes and again if somebody does something wrong then you have to shed light on it that's also it's having love for somebody else that you may not have those feelings towards but it's what's right. So being your true authentic self, and what is that? Well, I think we all see each other as different, but through we get the ego out of the way, we're all the same, eternal beings from the same creator. That's what we are, not what we were told. I don't know. It's self-discovery. It's you are an infinite Not what we were told. I don't know. Self-discovery.

9:25It's you are an infinite. Love is within you. Infinite prosperity is within you. Like, infinite greatness is within you. So how can you share that? How can you embody that and share it by just you being you, your authentic self? Not doing something for something else not having a hidden agenda you do it because that's that's the essence within you you know you just mentioned i love what you just said there you mentioned there are no limitations and uh that's something i've learned over the years and it's something that I've tried to instill into just about everybody that works here. And I think a lot of them thought I was full of shit and then they look back at where we started and they're like, there are no limitations.

10:22And so I'm just curious. And I think that with just about everything in life, there are no limitations. Yeah. And so I'm just curious, and I think that with just about everything in life, when did you learn there are no limitations? What was it for you that you just always have that in you? No, it was always just an ongoing process. I just remember at a young age, like, when I started wrestling and I started getting, like, a lot of attention, and I had a hard time with that, with the attention. Not what I was doing, like, wrestling and doing the hard stuff. Like, I love that. But then as I started getting, like, notoriety for it, I thought to myself, well, I was myself, well, you can do it too.

11:08It's within you to do this or do something that you love and make something great out of it. But I've learned over the years, the more that I know myself, the endless possibilities get bigger and stronger. Right? Like the more that I learned the depths of myself, the more that I realize there's more that I can give. There's more that I can experience. There's more love that I can give. There's more love that I can experience. So it's been an ongoing process. I think I've processed things very well as a child already. I saw people doing things that were wrong. I didn't understand it. I didn't get it. Like, okay, that's not for me. That's what you're doing. Okay. But I'm not going to intertwine myself with that.

12:15So a path of self-discovery is an endless, eternal process. The more you tap into that, the more you grow from within in all different aspects. You forgive, you let go, but you do what's right. the more you grow from within in all different aspects. You forgive, you let go, but you do what's right. So, yeah, ongoing process forever. I think we have time. Like, I don't believe it's just one lifetime. It's forever. We're eternal beings. We're going to eternally grow into ourselves. imagine what what you could think the end game is like there is no end game it's just eternally growing eternally knowing yourself eternally knowing that god consciousness is within you it is you all of everything that life is

13:05that's bringing you into a push pool into a place of scarcity all of that trying to tell you that material things are what life is about entertainment trying to get you out of from you all that's an illusion to get you out of yourself. How powerful would it be if everyone knew who they really were and lived it? That'd be powerful. I don't think there's a lot of people that do though, but. But we're helping, we're helping, you know? Everyone's helping in some way. Let's get to your life story. Where'd you grow up? So I was born in Salinas, California. My parents were farm workers, so they followed the the fields of the Central Valley, the Bay Area, all the way to Arizona. So I grew up in Arizona.

14:11I grew up in Yuma, Arizona. I'm Mexican. So part Spanish, part indigenous Native American from Mexico, from the Sonoran Desert. So I'm part Yaqui, Yaquimayo Indian. So very traditional, hardworking family. So my parents worked the fields all day kind of thing. Come home and I grew up a lot going to Mexico because it was so close. We would go 30 minutes away. We'd go there, spend the day. I loved it. I loved the culture, the food, the people. I grew up as... What would you do there? Relatives? Relatives. We'd go swim. Arizona, right? Just hot. So we'd find... My dad would take us to all these swimming holes where there'd be canals, too. We're going to swim in this canal. And it'd be pretty shady looking, but we'd swim. We were just like, all right, we were gonna swim in this canal, and it'd be pretty shady, like, looking,

15:25but we would swim. We were just like, all right, we're diving in, and just have a good time, swimming, food. So it was more just family time together, being together, enjoying ourselves. Where was your dad from? My dad's from that neighboring town. So he was born in San Luis, Rio Colorado. Where was your dad from? My dad's from that neighboring town. So he was born in San Luis, Rio Colorado, which is a border town of Yuma. Okay. So that's where he was born. Oh, so when you were going back, you were going back to where your dad grew up. Yes, yep. Yeah, yeah. And it's not a big town. Yuma's not a big town. San Luis isn't a big town either, but they're known for their food. Really good food there. It's so hot. It's like, what else? I don't know what else to do. You do that. You swim. Go to the river, Colorado River. You swim there. So a lot of family time, a lot of family time.

16:26And even as a child, I saw how my parents' trauma started coming out. My dad, my mom was very open with me, and I was open with her. She was like a safe place I can go to always she told me everything she didn't keep anything hidden she told me everything about her her life my dad's life so when she would talk about my dad's life and how he grew up he was very badly beaten by by his mom and older brother like on a daily to where he had a home but he'd there'd be times where him as him and his younger brother would wouldn't come home for a while because they knew once they got home like they wouldn't get beaten for for whatever reason so uh not a very good childhood like he had times where he had separated himself and you know to be a kid

17:25on the streets but um at home wasn't it wasn't a safe place for him and i and i saw that like in my parents fighting my dad and you know hit my mom and all that like i saw all that you saw that yeah i heard it saw the age as young as I can remember. Yeah. And I just remember, I couldn't understand how people that love each other would do that to each other. So what made me make sense of it was my mom telling me the things that he's gone through. And she was very understanding. She was just like, well, the things that he's gone through, like, it's, this is why he's like this. He'd be so loving and so peaceful, but then again had this need to fight, you know, and hurt the loved ones around him

18:19and try to control them. So I had a very loving relationship with my father. I still do. But I understand the traumas that he went through and I'm just happy that generationally, me and my siblings didn't go through what he went through. You broke it. You know? I feel like it just got better. It got better. And I think the work that I'm doing now is, yeah, I'm breaking all those family traumas. I'm always looking for things that help me stay focused without feeling wired or packed with questionable ingredients. I like clean products. Simple, intentional, and something that actually fits into the day. That's why I've been using Ultra Pouches. Ultra gives you the pouch experience built with zero nicotine and zero caffeine.

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22:16Like, I'm fucking crazy, man. I fucking, like, I don't know how someone who's two years older than me took care of me. Like, I just had so much energy, you know? I don't know how someone who's two years older than me took care of me. Like I just had so much energy, you know? Like just my eyes were open to life and I just like want to run and do all these crazy things. Like you couldn't really hold me until like, like no, no, you need to stay still. Like that wasn't me. I had to keep moving. Like I couldn't stay still for anything. i had to keep moving like i couldn't stay still for for for anything i had to keep exploring um so i think i'll i think i brought a lot of like anxiety to him because he

22:54was older brother he had to take care of me at a young age and no one could do that like my parents that was just so wild so getting into everything everything, you know, I didn't stop. You know, like troublemaker wild. I was more, no, I was more curious. Right. So it'd be like times where, where like I wasn't around, like with the family, like I wasn't there. They're like, where is he? He's doing something he shouldn't be doing. So I go outside in the garage or something and I like, I saw something mechanical. I started breaking it. I started like opening it up. I wanted to see, you know, what it was. And if there was paint there, I started spraying things. Like, oh, like, I didn't know. I just, yeah, yeah.

23:47So I just started like spraying things that shouldn't be spraying. Like, I didn't know. I didn't know that you can't do that, that's permanent. You know, there are no limitations like that. I just, I saw something, sprayed paint, did that. Fucking like, someone let the razor out out so i fucking like took my eyelashes out took my yeah yeah took my eyelashes out and then i remember my mom having to like paint me eyelashes to go play with my friends because i didn't have any right so no man i was just why was just, I was open to life. And if I saw something, I wanted to see what it was. So then I started breaking it and started seeing the internals of it. So if you're, I mean, with a mischievous kid like yourself

24:43and your dad losing his temper on your mom, you know, would he lose his temper on you guys? Um, so I'm the youngest. Um, I think they could, they knew I was very, uh, I was innocent, you know, like I just, like, I didn't have it. Like I didn't do it for a wrong reason. I was just exploring. I think they knew that. But yeah, I got spanked and all that with a belt and hit and all that. My dad was very possessive of my sister. Like you have to do this a certain way. Like after school, you gotta come home, no boyfriends, nothing like that. So that was very hard for her, because she was very much like my dad, where she'll fight. She'll fight you. You know, like, she won't back down. So they themselves clashed a lot.

25:37And that was very difficult to see, you know, how possessive he was with her, how he treated her. Um, it didn't let her explore things she needed to explore as a child yeah did you or your siblings ever have to step in in between your parents we did when like my parents would fight, you know? How would you do that? I mean, it's more so we would just sit there in front of them and cry, you know? Like, I don't want to hurt my dad. I just want you guys to stop. Just, just stop. Whatever you'd like. Why? You know? So I just felt, I felt very helpless. Like, I think also it was more of like, I'm the youngest. People always looked out for me. So to take that role was difficult for me at that young of an age, you know?

26:53But as we got older, we got, you know, things slowed down a little bit more. I think my dad kind of grew up a little bit more of like letting some of his stuff go. So it wasn't as bad growing up as we got older. But yeah, I had a tough time with it, with even stepping in and doing anything, because I just wanted it to stop. Just crying, just watching them cry. I'd be crying watching them, what they were doing. And I just felt very very helpless do you have any advice for kids that are in a situation like that where they're saying that every day what really helped me was just understanding that my father had traumas. My mom did too. And to understand their story a lot more, to understand how they were raised,

27:53how they were treated, helped me to forgive. Not that I could have done anything in that moment. You know? But that helped me, you know? And I do believe if it's a thing like that, like, people shouldn't be together, you know? The parent needs to, like, no, man, like, this isn't it. Like, it's hurting me, it's hurting my kids. Like, I gotta put myself out of this situation. You know, my mom never did that. There's times where they were, like, separated. But she did it very well that she understood why. And she would speak to us, kids, why this is happening. And she would speak to us about stuff that happened to her when she was a child. So she was very much an open book. Like, you can come to her.

28:55I could come here all the time and talk to her about all these things that were going on with me or that I thought and just felt very at home with her. You know, so... I guess understanding, you know, your parents' story, but also, like, if it's ongoing and if it's every day. And it wasn't every day. You know, it wasn't like that. But I think the parents have to get some type of control and get themselves out of something if they need to they gotta do it you know they can't be scared of like oh like how am i gonna survive all like you gotta get yourself out of this situation you understand why why you why you keep going back to this you know did you find an escape from that or did you find an escape from that?

29:45Or did you need an escape from that? So I guess as a child, like my kind of escape was like to play play alone. So I remember going outside, getting sticks, and I'd do a lot of forms, seeing what I saw in karate movies, pretending the stick is a sword, two sticks, and just start doing what I saw in karate movies. And then I remember going to the public pool, and I'd be there for hours doing a fight scene. Like, I'd be in a fight scene. Like, karate fight scene in the water. Kind of like The Matrix. Like, reenacting? Yeah, yeah, doing flips, kicks that I couldn't do, you know, on land. I would do them all in water, and I'd be there for just, I'd be so into just playing with myself doing that.

30:52Oh, shit. Not playing with anybody else, just in the water, and I'd do these fight scenes. And I'd make my own movie or whatever. I'd make my own crazy fight scene where I'm fighting an opponent that's invisible, but to me it's like, well, I'm in it. I don't care own, like, crazy fight scene where I'm fighting an opponent that's invisible. But to me, it's like, well, I'm in it. I don't care who's watching. Nothing. Like, I'm in my world. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you were drawn to that from a very young age. Yes. Yeah. Bruce Lee. So we watched a lot of movies together, my family. And, like, it was all open to us. It wasn't like, oh, you can't watch this. So I got introduced to everything through movies,

31:33sex, fighting, martial arts, love, all of it. And my first movies that I really loved, Bruce Lee movies, watching his Bruce Lee movies, Watching these Bruce Lee movies. Going into Arnold Schwarzenegger movies. Van Damme. All the karate movies. I wanted to be in some type of martial arts so bad. Karate or something. Watching pro wrestling, WWE, and lucha, lucha libre, like between the two worlds. Um, so I watched a lot of that and I loved it, yeah. What got you into wrestling? So my brother's two years older than me. Um, junior high, he junior high, he started wrestling. It's his seventh grade year, so I was in fifth grade. And then it was free with the school, you know? So it was pretty much that.

32:38Like, okay, like, fifth grade, I started doing martial arts. I started doing martial arts. I started doing karate. Before I even did that, before I even wrestled. And I was like, maybe I was too old, but I was like, man, this is weak. This isn't real, you know? Like, this isn't real. This is kind of like, yeah, we're working out, discipline, all that. But I'm like, what you're showing us, like, this wouldn't work. I just, there was something in there that was missing. It was. At a young age, like, maybe I was too old or, you know. But so then I started wrestling my seventh seventh grade year like okay it's free like it's with the school um and they just started doing it man and um it wasn't easy like it was fucking hard you know workouts were hard to go out and wrestle

33:44was hard in front of a lot of people. Wearing singlets. Growing up in Arizona, not a big wrestling town. So you get made fun of because of what you're wearing. You get made fun of because you're rolling around with guys. So it's like people that aren't doing it are judging you out of what you're doing. So for me, it was like, well, why am I doing it? I don't know. It's hard. It's tough. It's nerve wracking before you wrestle. I don't know why I'm doing it, but there's something there. Yeah, so that's kind of how it started. So you were drawn to it right off the bat. I was. I was drawn to, like, how hard it was. But that I was good at it, even though it was hard. You know, and no praise came from it.

34:36Like, it wasn't like you were, like, super popular throughout the whole school because you wrestled. Like, wrestling wasn't that big. And then I didn't do very well at school. So, maybe I found something that I did very well that spoke to me, that taught me all these things that I felt like I needed to learn. Like what? Just how to strive through adversity, how things may get hard. And there are, like, workouts are hard. Positions are hard. And in a position, getting in a position is hard to get what you need out of a takedown. Like, it's so much work. But it's like, you get it. It's like, ah, yes, I got it. But then you're on to the next. So it's like an ongoing, constant battle. But, yeah, so school really, like, kind of messed me up.

35:42It messed you up. It did. So in my family, we have dyslexia and things like that that are going through the family, and my brother had a lot of that. I didn't. I could read and all that. But I'm like, man, when I was in school doing schoolwork, I'm like, why in the fuck am I doing this? Like from grade school, I'm like, this is not what I want to be doing. I'm not going to do it. You know? Like my parents, yeah, yeah. So my parents, my dad stopped at third grade and just started working, you know, selling like gum and things like that in the streets. My mom stopped school at seventh grade, farm working at that farm, working at the house and also traveling, farm working. So they weren't really on me too much about school.

36:48So I didn't have that, like, oh, did you do work, any of that, at home? But in school, man, doing work, I was like, this isn't it. Like, this is bullshit. Whatever I'm learning here is, like, there's some subjects that I did, like like history, things like that. But everything else that came with it, I was like, no, this isn't it. So I'd be in school just daydreaming, like get away to get out to just recess, go out and have fun. And a lot of that got taken away from me too because I wouldn't do my work. So they're like, hey, you gotta finish this paper or whatever, you gotta finish this work before you go out or during recess. And I still wouldn't do it. I still am like, nope, not fucking still not doing this shit.

37:42Did that interfere with her wrestling career so starting starting junior high you have to maintain a c average and i'm like fuck okay well if i gotta do this if i want to do this i gotta do this it's the best way that i can, you know. So I had to. Not that I wanted to, but I had to. I'm like, if I want to keep doing this, I have to do this. If I want to keep playing sports, wrestling, playing football, I got to do this. So it made me lock down more. And I had troubles with it big time. A lot of teachers helped me and all that. They knew, like, I was good at sports, but I wasn't... The school was not my thing. So, it helped me. It did. And then in college, when I got into college, man, like...

38:35tutors and all that, like... For me, it was only wrestling and school. Like, I really had to focus on school. So, I mean. How fast did you excel at wrestling? You started in 7th grade. 7th and 8th grade when undefeated. No shit. Right off the bat. Right off the bat when undefeated. My 8th grade year, I beat the state champion. I was a state champion in freestyle. Right away, I was good at it. Right away. I was good at it. Right away. Wow. Yeah, I was good at it right away. Was your brother good at it? He was. He wasn't as good as I was. Our bodies are a little different. Like, I move a little different than he used to. He's very good technically. He's strong. But I can move really fast, too, for a big guy.

39:31Yeah. Yeah, for some reason, I got that. Yeah. How was your high school career? Really good. So I went, like like 110-10 in high school so yeah really good freshman year I didn't place I was one one match away from placing in state and then I took second my sophomore year and then won it junior senior year. So, yeah, I was really good. I was one of the top guys in the country for wrestling. Yeah, yeah. Maintainers the average the whole time? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Freshman year, man, I did go in eligible for a week because I had to do some work. So it was a struggle, man. But, yeah, I did it. I just squeezed by high school with the grades and stuff. I did. It was hard, but I did it. You know, I'm happy that I did it.

40:47I learned a lot from it, you know, how to persevere in something like I'm not good at. Like if you really put your time into it, you can, but like things outside of your world has to shut down, you know, like friends and all that, like, well, your sport and your schooling, you know? So it really helped me like, compartmentalize like all of that. So I'm not just playing sports, then going off, you know, with my friends and doing other stuff. Like, no, no, there's work to be done. You gotta work. Were your parents into it? They come watch? They did. They support you? They did. My mom, yeah, my dad did as well. My mom was super, she came to all the matches, she'd be yelling. Her and my sister as well.

41:33They'd be yelling, you know, fighting for us as we're, if we could hear them, as we're wrestling. Yeah, yeah, my mom was very, very proud. You'd be in the town and, like, talking to whoever, and she'd be like, do you know who my son is? Like, mom, stop. Like, don't, you know? Like, I didn't, even though I did all these things and a lot of attention started coming to me, like, I didn't like it. I did not like it at all. I didn't like people watching me, giving me any type of praise, none of that. Really? None of that. Yeah, it just felt very awkward, man. Just like, no, man, just let me do my thing. Yeah, I read you're pretty introverted. I think, yes, yes, definitely. I think at a young age, watching people,

42:33again, and seeing how they didn't see things the way that I saw them, or they didn't act the way that I did, it made me go inside a lot more. You know, it made me sit down for people. There wasn't a lot of people that I got to, like, really learn from, you know, and in a true way. There wasn't, like, other than my mom. My dad as well. Like, my dad was more so watching him, watching him how he worked, you know, in the grind every day, working hard. And, like, and no, he didn't complain about it, right it right my mom how open she was with me about everything her life right like whatever like we talk we talk um but there wasn't a lot of people where i'm like oh like you i can learn from there wasn't so i'm more so shut down did my thing with my head down

43:28um so yeah that made me really just just go within and not share of myself in any other way than like in the physical when did colleges start looking at you? Probably like my sophomore, junior year. I had a choice of either playing football or wrestling. I had a lot of colleges look at me for football, like a lot of big schools. So I feel like I could have gone either way. My grades too were something like, okay, well his grades aren't that good, so, you know, kind of thing. So it kind of took me off of the, even though a lot of colleges wanted me to play, it took me out of that. Like, yeah. So I had to go into junior college first. What did you like better? Did you like football or wrestling better?

44:36I liked them both, but I felt like I'd have a better career in wrestling. You were better at wrestling. I feel like I was really good at both. I could have done either one. I feel like I wanted to focus more on wrestling because there's something about it that taught me so much. There's more things you could do. I think I could shine there a lot more. Yeah. But I got recruited more for football I think I could shine there a lot more. Yeah, yeah. But I got recruited more for football by big schools. Like wrestling, even though it wasn't like a lot of big schools asking me to go, I feel like I could have wrestled anywhere that I wanted. Where did you wind up going? I wanted to go to Arizona State.

45:24Yeah. So, like, 1996, when I saw Jake Plummer, they had a season where they went into the Rose Bowl. And I'm like, man, I want to like Arizona State. They didn't even know, you know, Arizona State, okay. And then I found out they had a wrestling team and one of the best in the West Coast, if not the best in the West Coast. Saw them wrestle once against Iowa. I'm like, I'm coming here. Like, I want to wrestle here. This is where I want to wrestle. In Iowa? No, in Arizona State. Oh, okay. Yeah, Arizona State had a duel against Iowa. They got beat. They did. I'm like, I don't care. I want to go to Arizona State. I want to represent my home state. Yeah, I'm going to be a Sun Devil. Did you get there? I did. Yeah, I'm going to be a Sun Devil. Did you get there?

46:25I did. Yeah, I had to go through junior college first. So I went to junior college in Fort Dodge, Iowa. Iowa Central Community College. We won a national championship there the year I was there. And I was a junior college national champion um being exposed in the midwest was a big culture shock for me why is that that's where i grew up it was just different man than when i grew up the people were different um the surroundings were different um it didn't feel like home to me you know for me it was having my family around you know either like every day or at least having them come to my matches you know that was a big thing for me so going to iowa central thinking i could go anywhere that i wanted to and i And my mind was open to that.

47:27Once I was there for a year, I was like, no, I want to go back home. I want to go back to Arizona State, where I originally wanted to go my whole life. I want to go there, wrestle there, and I want to have my family watch me wrestle. I want to still be around them. Yeah. So I got recruited to go to Arizona State. And I was like, yeah, man, I'm coming here. I'm coming back home. How was the competition for you in college versus high school? A lot harder. A lot harder, man. And you're wrestling, man. You're wrestling, every match you're wrestling, like, guys are state champions now. All of them. You know? And they're, and if you're a freshman or a sophomore, you're wrestling guys that are much older.

48:16It's like in high school too, but the level of competitions is a lot, a lot more. A lot, a lot harder. So, everything, takedowns, everything, trying to score, all the matches. You're hardly getting pins now. You're hardly, you're winning by two or three points type of thing. So it got harder. It did. How would you handle loss? I mean, that's a? I wrestled. I wasn't any good. But I think one of the most important things about that sport is it teaches you how to lose. Because it all falls on you. There is no other excuses. There's no team to blame. There's nothing. It's you. And one other person. Yeah, you learn how to lose. I didn't lose that much in high school, you know? And when I did, I didn't shut down,

49:11but I was very upset at myself for why I lost. And I don't think at that moment I started understanding why I lost, you know? Like, it was more maybe my style of wrestling was so wild that when I got to college, I got more, more structure, more technique. So then I started understanding why I lost. Losing so much, you learn how to lose or you better, you better learn how to lose. It's not going to be good you know I didn't like it I didn't like losing but I understood it was a part of it like the only and over time I just put it into perspective okay the only thing you can do is learn from the loss okay now what did you learn from okay what did you learn okay you can't do this or this happened in this moment okay okay leave that there move on move on because

50:13there's another match coming up right now you know another match coming next week so yeah wrestling really taught me how to how to learn from those losses. There are a lot of them. People are watching, right? People are watching. They can say anything. Like, you got your ass kicked or whatever. They can say anything. You have to just take it on the chin. Well, I can't even tell them I'm going to do better. It doesn't even matter, right? You have to show them by the work that you're doing so it really taught me to just yeah learn from my losses take what you can from it but don't hold on to it man bring it on to the next one to the next one keep improving yeah what time when did uh when did martial arts show up on the scene then? When did you start getting interested in that?

51:08I started seeing how big it was growing. What year is this? So this is like my college career was from 2001 to 2005. Okay. It's a good register year. 2005. Okay. To register here. 2005. So I started seeing the UC grow. And at that time, my dreams were to keep wrestling and wrestle into the Olympics. When I got into my junior or senior year, wrestling just wasn't enough anymore. I was getting pretty bored of it like i didn't feel like i was a place that uh because there's certain rules you know it's just it's grabbing it's take downs it's it's escapes um there's no strikes and no submissions right so then i started seeing fighting as well you can do more things there you can kind of be more free to play around a lot more.

52:09So you can use the striking. And so I started seeing it and realizing, okay, I want to start doing that because wrestling just isn't cutting it for me anymore. I want to learn the striking. Like, I've never really done it before. I don't know if I'll be good at it, but I feel like in a fight, I feel like there's nobody that can beat me. Already in college, like, I feel like me learning these skills, growing, that I would start doing that. So I knew my junior year that I would start fighting. And I told my college coach that. And college coach, Tom Ortiz, still a good friend that I talk with all the time now, he just said, look, get done with your seasons, you know? And then I'll make sure we get you in touch with the right people

53:06of fighting that you want to do. So he got me in touch with AKA in San Jose. He says there's a good gym out there in San Jose. I think you should go there. Who were you watching? Were you watching UFC and, what, Pride at that time? I wasn't watching a lot of it. You weren't? I wasn't. No, I watched one fight, Tito and Chuck Liddell fight. I'm like, man, I could do that. I just watched one. It was just something that was in me. It wasn't like I watched all these fights and was like, I want to do that. No. I saw one. It was already within me. I want to start doing this. Because it wasn't like it is now back then. I mean, it was pretty, it's almost taboo. One fight every, what, three months or something like that, maybe?

53:58Yeah. I mean, gyms were, I don't know, but it seems like there were, from what I remember, far and few in between. It wasn't like, oh, I'm going to go check out this jiu-jitsu gym. Exactly, exactly. No, but there was a few gyms in all these different places. There was even one in Arizona. I saw it was already within me that I'm going to do this. I don't know what's going to come of it. I just feel like I have to go do this um i saw one i saw the fight with uh chuck and tito and i'm like i can do that i can do it yeah um so then when i graduated with uh pretty pretty good grades like yeah uh i was pretty happy with that. Like, I was like, ah, fuck, I did it. And I fucking, it was hard work, but I did it, you know?

54:48I had pretty good grades, like, ah, yes. Yeah, man, so I could have stayed around Arizona State and helped coach and all that, right? I packed up all my stuff in my car, everything I had, just my stuff in my car. Everything I had, I just packed up in my car and drove out to San Jose without knowing anything. Like it was hard man, leaving like a life that I knew so well, good friends, you know? Going to a place that I don't know, going to do something that I don't know I'm going to do. Just a calling. Holy shit. So you just left everything. It's something you really had no idea about. You just were like, I want to try that. I want to do it. Yeah, that was it. I'm out of here. Yeah, that was it, man.

55:38I just felt like I had to go do it. I don't know. Again, I don't know what's going to come of it, but I didn't think of what could come from it. No, no, I just feel like I have to engulf myself in this. Just like I did with everything else I did. That's it. No expectations of what's gonna come from it. Nothing like that. It was just, I feel like I have to go do this. Okay. Packed up my stuff in my car, went out to San Jose. And at the time, at that season, my parents were in Salinas. So they're about an hour away from San Jose. They're still doing the farm working, right? And they have a house in Salinas that they're renting to stay. So I went in and it just started. So you lived with them?

56:38I started, yes, living with them and just being all day in San Jose. And they're very good on like, let you do you. You don't need to, oh, you're out of school? You don't get like, oh, you got to pay rent? They weren't like that ever, ever. Like, oh, you need a car? You need a car fixed? Okay. They're very good with that, both of them. It wasn't like, no, no, now you got to help out. They were never like that. They're always just like, oh, you want to go do this? Okay. As long as you stay in school or do whatever you're doing, you're good. You know? So I didn't have a pressure at home of like, oh, now I got to, like, help out, pay rent or anything. I was there rent-free, and I'd be all day training.

57:28So what was it like walking into that gym for the first time, not knowing anything other than wrestling? Nerve-wracking, a little scared of not, yeah, like, okay, it's different now, you know? I got to learn how to fight, and I got to fight these people here, training partners and all that. So my coach, Javier Mendez, I think it was my first little sparring, technique sparring, it wasn't even real sparring, technique sparring. First day, it was like the first time I even got in there. And he saw me work with somebody. And he even says that now the story, but he knew that I was going to be good at this, just from that, just from watching me in the beginning. Without knowing any striking or anything, just from watching

58:18me in the beginning. wrestling, being able to go in and control guys, take them down, you know, getting hit on the way in. I didn't know any defense or anything like that or how to strike. But the striking didn't scare me. I didn't mind getting hit, you know. That's the thing about other athletes coming into mixed martial arts or boxing or anything. Like, how do you react when you get hit? There's a certain way like you can I be scared of it? And that's how it should be or people get hit and then they don't like it. They cower away They break down So that wasn't that wasn't me like I didn't mind it at all like it even gave me more more fuel so getting hit boom all right take you down just just just to show you so he knew right away that

59:13it'd be that'd be good um and then i just i saw him of how he taught the happy amenities of how he taught, the Javier Mendez of how he taught. I'm like, man, I got to learn from him. Like, he knows it. Like, that teacher that I was looking for, like, in fighting was him. He knew. And what he taught in fighting, like, it translated to life too, you know? So I started to learn from him, the fighting, everything, the mentality, the game plan, the giving and taking, and applying that to my life as well. Where do you start? Huh? Where do you start? Just? Where do you start? Just get in there. Just get in the gym, yeah. What's the first thing you started teaching him? Just get into the gym and then, okay, you have a background in wrestling, yes.

1:00:17Okay, what do we need? Okay, you got to learn striking. You know, you got to learn that. And you don't know the submission game but you can control people on the ground okay but you don't know how to get us out of submissions you don't know how to get people into submissions but you know how to control people on the ground so that's a good start already right there right and if you want to you can take the fight to the ground and punch them like it'd be very easy that way. But he started showing me kickboxing on the feet. And simultaneously, throughout the day, I'd do jiu-jitsu as well, right? So I was learning both at the same time. But to really dial my striking in, like how to stand, how to use your footwork, what to use to engage in striking, what to use to set up your takedowns.

1:01:21I felt like it was easier than wrestling. Really? Because now we're not hunched over in a wrestling stance. We're standing up. So if I'm going to take somebody down, they're standing up. I want to take them down, right? And with striking, setting up the takedowns for the strikes made it so much easier than before. Really? Yeah. So I felt like it was easier to get a takedowns for the strikes made it so much easier than before really yeah so i feel like i feel like it was easier like to get a takedown to control somebody um so i feel like it was like easier than wrestling wrestling was harder it was a lot yeah it was harder yeah yeah I just started. What level are these guys at? So Javier Mendez is a world champion kickboxer.

1:02:13He's a world champion kickboxer. So he started. So as far as the striking, the boxing, the kicking, the knees, all of that, elbows, he knows all that very well, very well. But he's very good on game planning and how to, like, you do this to beat this guy. Like, that's where he's very good at. But the technique-wise as well, like well like and me i'm a visual person so me seeing it how it's done i can do it right away like show me how it's done because i'm i'm gonna i'm gonna be so detailed on like on where your your your placements of your feet were of your hands were of your body was of how you're shifting your body to get into a certain place so me being visual really helped like i just had to tell

1:03:13them okay show me real quick how to do that and i'd watch them do it a couple times okay i got it and then then i'd start doing it and then it was a thing of combining everything that you know together. So mixing it up all nice and together, making it flow nicely. Instead of striking and then, oh, it's time to wrestle. Okay, striking. Let me lower level change, take a shot in, take somebody down. No, I made it flow very nicely together. Made it look like it was all one movement. So like a fight scene, it would just flow into that. You started at the top level. Yeah. Walking into the gym, competition, coaches, everything. Yeah, high-level gym, high-level athletes already there, guys that have fought in the UFC, fought for titles as well.

1:04:10Yeah, best trainers. Guy was teaching jiu-jitsu at the time, Dave Camarillo. Learned a lot from his jiu-jitsu. He did a little bit of judo as well. But I just, every day, every moment, just put myself in there. So I was in pretty much training camp nonstop. How many hours a day? Like five or six hours a day. Five, six hours a day, six days a week. Six days a week, five to six hours a day. Five, six hours a day, six days a week. Six days a week, five to six hours a day. Yeah, yeah. And then for like gas money, I started working at a bar at night, like bouncing like three days a week. Three or four days a week, bouncing, working out throughout the day, and I had enough for gas money and maybe some food.

1:05:11So that's how I lived. And then it even got to a point where, okay, when I was doing that at night, working, bouncing at night, instead of driving home an hour to my parents' house and having to come back, I started just parking my car in different places and sleeping there. Yeah. I was like, well, I'll get more rest for training if I do this. So I started doing that. I mean, do you want to talk about, you know, kind of the mentality that it takes to become a champion. I mean, from seventh grade on, you're right there. You know, junior, senior year, state championship, and then you had the mentality, you know, and we all know what you become, you know, in your fighting career. But to graduate college and to just go right into it 100% at the top level.

1:06:10Yeah. It just takes love. Love in what you're doing. If you love what you're doing, things are going to happen. Like, you're going to be blessed. Like, you go in with no expectations. I didn't go in to do fighting because I was gonna make a name for myself. Money, none of that. No, no. I went in, like, to train, like, to fight every day. That's why I went in. That's why I did it. I didn't know there was a whole other aspect to this. Notoriety, like people watching you, notoriety. I didn't get the money. I didn't get any of that. So the love of what I love to do brought me to all these places. Well, what, I mean, if you say that, because now you're, what, 22, 23 years old probably? Yeah. Eventually you have to make a living, right?

1:07:19So did you, I mean, did you? Do you? Yeah, maybe not. But so you genuinely just went there because you wanted to learn and master it. You had no aspirations to become what happened, become a UFC champion. It was for love of the sport. I knew I'd be good at it. Like, I just know, okay, I know I can do this. But the process of training for me was a process of self-discovery. It's learning something new that I feel like my mentality matches with it. My body matches with it in its own style. I was just good at it from the beginning. Just good at it. But it was getting just lost in the process of developing myself, developing my skills, developing myself, getting lost in that. Like, that's all I needed, you know?

1:08:41And like, I'd be at the clubs and stuff, you know, working. And it's like, people were asking, like, what, what did you do? You know, like, what do you do you know like what do you do the normal question right it's like i didn't even like you would tell people i was a fighter at the time it was like the biggest pickup line like i'm a ufc fighter i wouldn't even say any of that when i wasn't in the in the ufc but number two would be like i just say i don't know i I just do this. I just bounce. Like, keep it very simple. Like, no, I'm not. Just being so into the process of developing was what I needed at the time for my soul, for my body, for my mentality. You know, no longer having school, which is, for me, was yes. Like, I'm free, you know, no longer having school, which is for me was yes.

1:09:26Like I'm, I feel like I'm free. You know, I'm battling with these guys every day. It's a brotherhood, you know, we're bleeding every day. We're kicking each other's ass every day. And it's kind of crazy to say, but it's in a loving way. Like you kick their ass because you love them. You kick their ass in the gym so they don't get kicked, like, their ass kicked out in the real fight. Right? So... The way of showing love in the gym is to do that. It's to beat somebody up. To beat their ass out there. Like, that's how you show them love. You make them better at that. Iron sharpens iron. That's how you do it. So just being engulfed in the process, man, that was it. And then as I started fighting, I started winning.

1:10:19So things started coming together. How did you start fighting? I mean, how long were you training, learning before it was time to compete? So my first six months after training, I got my first fight. Six months. I fought in Strikeforce in San Jose. Again, the opponent being picked, like, it was a good matchup for me, you know? Like, he didn't have that song of wrestling, but he fights, so be aware, you know? But you have good enough stuff to, like, go ahead and, like, you know... Yeah, I could... My coach, too, like, Javier Mendes was like, well, yeah, you can stand on them, you can beat them anywhere, but why would you want to do that? Like, take the game to where you know the best. Take his ass down.

1:11:12Beat him up on the ground. So we did that, yeah. How did it go? How did it go? knock uh stoppage by by uh the tkl stoppage in the first round the first maybe a minute or two it took the guy down right away they threw a kick checked it grabbed the kick took him down and then just beat him up on the ground and they stopped it pretty pretty. That was your first match? That was my first fight, yeah. Holy shit. Yeah. Yeah. From then on, probably a year or a couple months later, I fought in Russia for a show called Bodog. Fought there. First round TKO. Again, took him down, did the same thing. Broke my hand doing it. So I had my hand to recover from it. And from then on until my UFC career, it might have been like a year or two.

1:12:28That's it? It might have been like two years, something like that. Okay, but no fights in between at all. None. So by my second fight, I was already pretty well known as he seemed to to be the next up and coming heavyweight. No shit. Like, so people knew already, like what I had, my pedigree of wrestling. They already talked about, like, I had people come into the gym, other fighters, professional fighters, and I beat them up, you know? What do you mean they would come to the gym? They would come to the gym to train you? Yeah, to train. So other UFC fighters would come in to train. Like the UFC fighters that were already there, or they were seeking you out? Yeah, they'd come in like, you know,

1:13:17hey, we're going to train, you know, like you travel around training with other gyms, other camps. They would seek you out to get better. Whether it was me or if it was just, I want to go to this gym because you had me, you had Paul Bonatello, who fought for a title in the UFC. He was another heavyweight. We had another heavyweight, Mike Kyle. Guys that fought in bigger shows. So we already had a pretty good group of like big guys. And Paul is really good in the stand-up. Like good hands, hit hard, fast hands for a big guy. No wrestling, you know, or just not that good. But the guys would come in that were either in the UFC or guys that are fighting in big shows. And I knew I stacked up with everybody

1:14:11because I beat them up. Yeah, yeah. So between that time and those two years, I couldn't get a fight. Why? Because people wouldn't want to fight. So like, if you know... Who really wouldn't want to fight? They wouldn't want to fight. So like, if you know... They wouldn't want to fight. They wouldn't want to fight you? So in the UFC, you get matched up, right? And you really can't say no. Well, you can, but then they can put you on the back burner and say, okay, well, you don't want to fight. You know, like, you got to fight this dude. You don't want to fight him. What the fuck are you doing here? Right? But when we're talking about smaller shows, people want a good record till they can get into the big show.

1:14:53Right? They wanna, they want it, so you kinda have to maneuver a lot more, like, tread lightly, like, find a good matchup. Like, or else there's no point. Like, other than, other than you're to get beat up or go through a war, you don't have to. Save that for the big show. So that was more like the mentality. So, yeah, I signed up for a lot of fights throughout that time, and all of them backed out. Either the guys that they have backed out for some reason. So they knew, okay, probably going to lose if I go against this guy. That's kind of what the mentality was. Was that frustrating for you? You just learn. Yeah, it was. But then you just learn, I got to make it make sense for me. And what the best way that I could do to make it make sense for me. Right?

1:15:46And what the best way that I could do to make it make sense for me was, okay, you're not going to get the opportunity to polish yourself in other fights. That's not going to be your road. And even my coach, Javier Mendes, said, like, you're going to learn it from the gym, and then you're gonna have to go to the big show. However that happens and when that happens, we don't know, but just continue the process, keep getting better, keep training, and the sparring that you're doing here, that's your fight. So did you only do two fights, or were there fights in between Russia and your first? That's it? Two fights? Well, how do you get your, I mean, so you get your name out by people turning down fights.

1:16:36That's the only way, right? So that and just the gym talking, you know, when you have, like, people doing interviews on, like, they come into gyms, they do an interview on, like, the gym itself, and they'll, you know, you already, within the fighting world, you already know who's at what gym, right? And the story of me going around that anybody comes in the gym, I'm beating them, it's pretty well known, right? The UFC didn't necessarily know about me like that much. And I remember one of the managers, Bob Cook, was calling the UFC and telling them about me. And he was saying, well, this guy is very good. He's going to be probably the champion coming up. And what the UFC says was, okay, well,

1:17:36put him up against Andrej Aloski, like, right away. Well, that's going from, yeah, 0 to 100 already. You can do that, but Bob Cook did it very well. He said, no, no, no, well, look, you don't know what you have here, okay? You're going to have to bring him up a little bit. You will, but he'll be good, okay? So these talks back and forth with the UFC. Finally, Dana White was okay with, hey, let's set up a training session in Vegas. Okay, I know what guys you have. Me, Mike Howe, I think Christian Wellish was another guy that's fighting in the UFC currently. Said, look, have him come over. Just Bob told Dana, look, just watch him train. That's all you got to do. Just watch. So went to Vegas to the Ultimate Fighter gym in that ring there, in that cage.

1:18:54And we had a full-on sparring session, me against those two guys. So me out there the whole time going around with those two guys. And Dana White was there, and he watched. And afterwards he said, well, why isn't he in ufc yet so he signed me on the spot holy shit how did that feel fucking amazing man fucking nervous going in you know but do what i do i did it and i was like yeah it was like wow okay like amazing yeah but like like now i'm there okay now i'm at the show right now i'm at the biggest organization in the world um but now this is where the work starts so even though i'm there like you now and that the road is going to start damn man two two fights holy shit yeah let's take a quick break okay cool

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1:21:50You do think, what do you think they lied about? I think they found some stuff up there they weren't supposed to. Probably be a designated driver for the SEAL teams. Which means you pretty much just drive a bunch of drunk, angry seals that struck out at the bar. What's the closest you've come to walking away from your platform entirely? There's been some times where the workload was so much that it was affecting my health. I was just getting sick. I was actually getting mentally and physically ill from the workload and the pressure. I get really irritable if I don't see my kids. What's the one thing you want people to say about your body of work in 20 years? All right, so you get picked up by Dana White

1:22:46watching a training session in the UFC. Mm-hmm. Where do we go from here? My first fight with... Yeah, first fight, a guy named, uh, Brad Morris, uh, fought him in, um, where Matt Serra fought GSP, George St. Pierre, their second fight. What, I mean, what changed? Did anything change? Did your training change or was it just same pace, same thing? Yeah, as far as training, doing the same things, just improving. You know, improving. I wasn't all there yet. You know, I had pretty good technique everywhere. I wasn't a natural strong puncher. So, hitting people, like, I would I had pretty good technique everywhere. I wasn't a natural strong puncher. So hitting people, like I wouldn't really drop them too much.

1:23:54You know, especially at the beginning of my career, I wasn't like that. So I could punch fast, I could punch, all that, but I wasn't doing a lot of damage. So you can see that in my first couple fights. People even started, like, again, commenting on that, that I can't punch hard, so I wouldn't be as good. What was your nickname? So... I didn't have one um cardio cane so okay i didn't have an official nickname okay um after a while the spanish-speaking countries called me el toro el toro bowl the bowl they call me the bowl um so spanish-speaking countries that stuck so in in mexico anywhere else like that that stuck um but in the u.s yeah they call me uh it was a nickname i stuck but it was more of like

1:25:09like that's what i'm known by so yeah yeah cardio cane yeah why do they call you cardio cane because i can go man i can keep going just keep going keep putting pressure on. That was my wrestling style too. High pace. For a big guy, a lot of high pace. And I can move around pretty good. So I move around like a smaller guy, fast. But I always wrestled against bigger guys. I was weighing 240, 250 when I wrestled. And the weight limit is 285. Some wrestling guys, 285, even heavier, they got to cut weight. So I got really used to competing against big guys. So when I fought, I fought around 240. Weight limit for the UFC heavyweight is 265. So I always fought guys that were much bigger, much taller, much heavier than me,

1:26:06more of a smaller, mid-sized, small heavyweight. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Was that new to you? Mm-mm. Wasn't? No. Same as training? Yeah, it was the same as training. It was the same as when I wrestled. And I competed against a lot of big guys, so I knew the best way of beating them would be they're going to get tired after a certain amount of time. Then that's when I start scoring. Same thing in fighting. I got to use my speed and my footwork. I got to use my speed, my quickness. In fighting, again, it was a little easier. It actually was. I don't got gotta hold on to somebody and move their body around. Like in wrestling, this is what you gotta do, right? So moving a mass of 285 around and trying to get under them and take them down

1:26:57is a little more difficult than in a fight. You're much quicker than them to hit them first and get out before they even hit you. So it became a little easier. I saw it as it was easier than wrestling. Interesting. You've said, you know, in your training sessions, you would train until you felt like you were going to die. Is that metaphorical? I gave myself to every training session. Like, I gave everything I had. Like, I had nothing left for me to do, like, except for rest, recover, and go on to the next. So, you got a two-hour practice, right? You have drills, maybe you start out with. And I'm trying to, I'm winning, I'm trying to beat the, win the drills every time. Every position, I'm winning every position.

1:28:01I'm going as hard as I can each position. But even if we're working with somebody like I do a move then I let them do the move whether it's like a takedown but then I don't just land like on the takedown and like okay get me up or land on the takedown then stand up no no I transition to that takedown. As I'm going and getting taken down, I'm going into what's next and what's next. So that's getting away, escaping, separating, reversal, right? So I'm doing that into my training. So I'm like literally every moment going into that choreography, I guess you would say, of the fight, ongoing. Like I'm not stopping. I'm going, I'm chain wrestling. I'm going to the next move to the next move. I'm never stopping moving.

1:28:59And as soon as I get up to my feet, we go back again. So what I try to teach guys now that I see fighting or that I see, you have a two-hour training session, you start doing drills. Now there's a way to do it. You do a move, maybe a takedown, boom. Guys usually get taken down, they lay there, they pick themselves up, they walk back to where they were at, then do it again. My train of thought was, we do a certain move, whatever, get taken down here, roll into the takedown, into something else, and do an escape, into a reversal, so the movement never stops. Then when you stand up, the opponent's in front of you, then you start going again. So then now you're getting all these reps in. Now the workout is a continuous workout. It's not

1:29:52stop, go, stop, go. So no, man, I really just died to it. I left everything, every training session. There was nothing left for me to give. I did it all in this condensed amount of time for two hours. I'm giving you all that I have. And I did that every day. And I just love that. I love to push myself to that, to where I'm fucking next. After that, I'm just dehydrated so much. I really just needrated so much. I really just need IV, but fuck it. I battled. I battled every day. I got to be free. For these two hours and this moment, I got to be free. Let everything out. How long was it before you signed? How long did it take for you to get a fight? It might have been three to six months, around there.

1:30:53Yeah, I had my first fight. It was in Quebec, Canada. How was that? I mean, an introverted guy, two fights in front of a ton of people. I mean, probably not a big audience, but nothing like the UFC, right? And then you're thrown into that. So me wrestling at the national tournament in college, you got a stadium full. Maybe they're not watching. Maybe not everyone's watching your match, but majority people are as well as well right so that helped me to like block them away focus on what i gotta do so that fight in quebec um george saint pierre matt sarah, was a big card. But I'm one of the first ones fighting, so the whole stands aren't full yet. They mainly show up from the main card. So, I felt like it was like I was in that national tournament again,

1:32:02where, put the blinders on, man. Yeah, you got to do these interviews and all that, whatever. Like, you got a whole week to kind of process this and just go out there and, like, just free yourself, you know? Be free for a moment in the chaos. Yeah, I was, yeah. Went in first round, TKO again. Restraction on the feet, strikes on the ground. First round? First round, yeah. The referee let the fight go on a little too long. The guy that I was fighting took a little bit of a beating. He shouldn't have taken that. He should have stopped it way earlier. So because my fight ended so early, if the later fights end early as well, they'll put one of those undercard fights on the main card on TV. But mine didn't get

1:32:57shown because it was too one-sided. It was bad. They should have stopped their way earlier. So yeah. What did that feel like then? You're at the top level now. Is that exciting for you? Is that a disappointment for you? Were you expecting better competition? No, no, not better. No, I just feel like that was the first step of many steps to go in this, right? Like, if you're, the goal is to get that belt, you know, is, well, the goal is not to get that. The goal is to show that you can beat everybody, right? To have that competition in front of you and that you have better skills than they have all around. Like, that's the goal. And that was just the first step of more challenges to come. How many fights did you go before you got the opportunity

1:34:00to fight for the championship? I think I was 9-0, I think think i think nine fights around there like nine fights maybe um something like that yeah so i fought uh minotaurera, and we fought in Australia, and we knew the winner of this would be fighting for a title. And Minotaur Noguera, one of the best jiu-jitsu guys out, one of the best jiu-jitsu guys in heavyweight probably ever and he's uh he has a really good chin like doesn't get knocked out doesn't get knocked out nothing like that um so i knew he was just very dangerous very dangerous um and again my fights before this i didn't really hit hard right so you want to know my uh my nickname before yeah so they started calling me people started calling me pillow hands

1:35:19on social media right because I didn't hit hard. I didn't knock people down. Like, I hit them. Yes, I hit them a bunch of times, but I didn't hit them hard. And we got to a point in training where I developed all these skills, okay? Yes. Now, focusing on the power. Like, look, you don't hit hard naturally. You don't. Okay, but how, like, with Javier, with Mendes, like, how are we going to get that from you? So we really started working on that, and that's body placement, lowering your level, having your knees bent, throwing everything from your hips as if you're chopping wood and you're throwing your hips in. You're not letting your arms do the work. You're letting your body do the work. So it was that.

1:36:21So really focusing on that. And it really helped me develop like, what it means to fully commit. And I'm not just talking about striking, I'm talking about fully commit to everything. Fully commit yourself. That's with position, being in the right position, and giving all of yourself. So again, if people don't want to get hit they go in and like give a little touch and try to get they're thinking about getting quick in touching and then getting out just as fast as they went in but when you fully commit you don't think of that all All you're thinking is, look, my hands are on the right place. So if he were to hit me, then he hit me, but my hands are in the right place. I'm guarded as much as I can.

1:37:15My level's lowered and I'm throwing my hip, I'm throwing my shoulder. I'm fully committing to this movement right here. I don't care what happens afterwards, but I'm gonna give you all of this. Now, as soon as that punch is out, it starts to come back, that's when you go ahead and get out. So I really started, like, it was more of, like, taking my time to fully commit to that, but giving all of myself. Like, I'm giving you all of this. I'm taking my time. It's going to be a little slower, but being done right, great outcomes will happen. So with Noguera, I knocked him out. No shit. On the feet. Yeah, yeah. Game plan for him was just not to tie up with him, don't wrestle with them. If you do wrestle with them, like throw them instead of like landing on them.

1:38:10Like don't land on them. So play your stand up game, punches and kicks. And we're doing that. Like I was scoring pretty well. And then he comes in and I come in and I fucking just throw his right hand. And it's around the button and I'm fucking, and I'm lowered. I, you know, I did what I practiced. So he falls, I see him fall. But then also I'm thinking in my head, like, okay, he doesn't get knocked out. So you got to make sure, right? right so as he fell i moved past his legs came around and hit him with the more more shots on the ground but like fucking hard like because he's dangerous he'll he'll he'll get up and start start his thing you know so i had to make sure that it'd be done which for me was hard because he was a guy that I looked up to.

1:39:11If I had to choose somebody to not fight, it'd be him. He's just a good person. He's just a pillar of the sport and what he's done in his career and how he's done it. So I respected him a lot. So for me to do that was hard. Is that the first person you fought that you were thinking, holy shit, I'm fighting this guy? No, he wasn't. But just, again, his certain set of skills, I had to bring a certain type of game plan to match up against his skills perfectly so so i so i could come out on top and win everybody has their own like puzzle everyone has their own it's chess game everyone plays a certain way everybody has their own strengths and weaknesses and the game plan is what's the best way to win against that with my game, with what I have.

1:40:08Body positioning, body size, the way you move, your mentality, your skill level, the good techniques you bring. So it's a hand-to-hand combat war, what we're doing. Who was the first person that you got matched up with that you were thinking, oh, shit, I can't believe I'm fighting this guy? Did you have that moment? Or had you already fought all of them in training? I just knew that there'd be nobody that can beat me. And in training, there was nobody that could. So when I fought Brock Lesnar, I feel like I had the recipe to beat him. And that was interesting as well. I feel like me and my coaches knew already, okay, he's good at this, but the things that he's good at, I'm really good at too.

1:41:11He's good at taking people down and beating them up on the ground, but I'm really good at standing up. So I didn't even care to get taken down with him. It wasn't like I was avoiding it. No, no, no. We actually worked so much on like, I had Daniel Cormier. I was sparring him. And my coach, Bob Cook, one of the managers and also coaches as well at the time, said, okay, this is what we're doing, this whole camp. When you're sparring, whenever I say, Cain, get down, that's what you're doing, okay? You're going to get on your back, and you're going to have these guys lay on you. In any position, at any moment in the sparring, this is what you got to do. I said, okay. So sparring rounds and rounds and rounds, I'm tired, right?

1:42:06I have the better position on Daniel, maybe. And then Bob Cook says, Kane, get down. I stop what I'm doing, get on my back, open up like this, and have DC start wherever he wants to start on me. And me just get up and get away. So I wasn't afraid of him taking me down took me down three times but right away he took me down I got up I was very good at falling down letting that the the canvas be your springboard to like maneuver into something else just like I had to train normally so that's what I did took me down I stood up right away and when you do that to somebody that kills your will man it's a lot to get that takedown like especially how he does it when he picks people up like you're picking up 240 pounds drop them down on the ground and then

1:43:02within an instant they're up and away. Like, that kills you. That kills your cardio. That also kills your will to, like, I can't keep them down, so why am I going to keep doing this? I'm just going to tire myself out. So I made it a stand-up game. So we find a stand-up, and he didn't like to get hit so that's when I could start working shit yeah and how long was it before you fought him your career up to that point I might have been 10 or 11 or no I think I'm not sure what my record was, but I fought him after Noguera. I fought him, I think, 2010. 2010. Yeah, it was 2008. Yeah. Yeah. How did you beat him? TKO stoppage. So he's a freak of an athlete. I knew just my coaches and I knew that we had the recipe, right?

1:44:20But I could see everyone else. Even Daniel tells me later, he's like, man, when you fought him, I didn't tell you, but I was just like, I don't want to be fighting that guy, right? So just how he looks, I mean, he's a freak athlete. You know, played in the NFL, national champion wrestler. Big dude, right? 265 weight limit, but I mean, he probably cut who knows how much to make that pure muscle right and that's not me um so i knew like everyone around me and they're like oh shit he's gonna go fight him like he's gonna go you know he's gonna go go die, right? Like that kind of thing. And then, yes, standing in front of him, like this is a massive dude right here, okay? Even though he doesn't like to exchange, he has power.

1:45:16So you get hit with that, it's not going to be good, okay? So you still got to be cautious everywhere. And then as soon as I remember going out there and fighting, as soon as I tied up with him, like in the first initial, we tied up like this and he had me against the cage. I would say 99% of people, when they get me here, I can maneuver myself out of there pretty easily by shifting their weight and me getting out. With him, I wasn't. Like, I was stuck. Like, there's so much power pushing me against the cage that i was like okay he's not moving i'm not gonna move him i'm not gonna get myself out of here so i kind of wait until he does something so i remember like there's a canvas and the cage here within the

1:46:02canvas you have a little little slightly little, little opening, like very, like almost nothing. I remember jamming my foot in there. Like, I gotta like make this hearth for him to like get me, you know, like take me down. I remember jamming my foot in there, like getting my foot nice and in there, and like kind of grounding myself to the cage. Well, he picks me up like, like nowhere, like out of nothing. He just picks my legs up and everything. But as I'm falling, I'm falling like a cat. As I'm falling down, I'm going on all fours instead of going on my back and letting him lay on me. I'm falling like a cat. I'm going on all fours so I can just kind of jump up. And I did that. So he stopped taking me down after those three those three attempts that all those three

1:46:53takedowns that he got on me he stopped anymore from there so got to work to stand up a little bit like hit him some shots and then i took a shot on him and i took him down like and that's never been done before like nobody's ever like taken him down so it was like so I was on so but he stayed down there he didn't fucking like get up right away he stayed down on all fours so I could start working so I started punching him you know from the ground from the like we're in referee's position so he was down on all fours all on top of him punching either side. And then when I hit him with a couple of really good ones, like, I let her fire, and I'm like, get up. Time to get up. So he got up. I tried to go in on his leg again, and he was so heavy.

1:47:37So I'm like, I don't know. I got to let this go. Like, it's too heavy. Let it go. Working on my feet again. And then I think he kind of like came in maybe for a shot and I caught him with like a a hook or something like a body like his face and my hand like perfectly timed as he was coming in so I hit him with that he started like doing these 360 like spins like he these 360 like spins. Like he's just like, he's trying to gather his feet. I don't know if it rocked him or what, but he's trying to gather his feet. He's doing these like spins and I'm like slowly, I'm not running to him. I'm like slowly, like, like I learned this from, from years and years of training until like somebody gets hurt.

1:48:23You don't know what you have. You don't know what state they're in. I mean like they're they're knocked out or whatever but you can't just like jump and pounce on them because you don't know what what state that they're in so i was very used to like methodically just slowly i just kind of slowly followed them followed them like hey what am i going to get when he turns and faces me or if he falls ends up facing me hit him with a couple punches um and i fucking caught him with a good knee like his head went down i fucking just put my hip into that shit dude right in his face dropping from there and then his other fights when he got in trouble in the striking, even though he doesn't like to get hit, it's not like he's knocked out.

1:49:12Okay? So he's more like covering up, like waiting for you to be done or waiting for you to tire yourself out. Right? So I knew, okay, I can't do that with him. I've got to pick my shots, make sure they're – so he's nice and comfortable like this so he's not moving to get up put my knee on his belly and i just started opening his hands up and like throwing elbows in there and i cut him pretty big like big old big old cut on his face but i was just doing that moving at it his hands out of the way so I wasn't hitting his hands and like elbow punching him to where he stood up again knocked him down again and then I just saw the referee coming closer and closer like it's about to be stopped so I can't pay that any attention

1:50:02I just said keep working keep hitting those shots keep getting good shots in in then the referee stopped it damn yeah yeah yeah the referee stopped it um i remember that moment like like it was like everything you worked for was for this moment right here everything you've ever done was for this moment right here and if I was dreams come true like fucking they do they fucking come true. Like, fucking they do. They fucking come true. Like, they do. No limitations. They come true. That moment was that. Like, dreams come true. Everything you worked for was for this one moment right here, and you fucking did it. Like, you did it. I remember that. It was that, right there, that moment. Yeah. It's crazy you remember every detail of that fight like that.

1:51:14Yeah. From 2010, 16 years ago. Yeah. I just think I'm so like, I'm so present in that moment everything like I'm examining I'm calculating you know I'm so into the moment I'm not thinking about anything else like nothing else like but what's in front of me right here right now so you're so hyper focused on what's in front of you and then just that moment of when it was finished it was like this is why you this is why you do the things you do this is why you this is why you struggle right here this is why you put the work in this is why you kill yourself like in all these places like this is what it's for right here not for the belt no but to say but to climb that that mountain and to be at the top

1:52:17that's what it's for what's your thought process afterwards i mean there's nothing left to climb yeah um it was like it was so weird uh afterwards um was like, what just happened? Because it just felt like a dream, you know? Like, too good to be true kind of thing. I couldn't even believe in myself kind of thing. Then as much as the attention that I got after that was way more. To where people started, like like even in the UFC, they started treating me a little different. Like that night, the hotel that they had me at, they put me in a better hotel. You know, I was like, what? Like what just happened? And I remember I had a nightclub, like I would normally do nightclub appearances after the fight to like make a little extra money, you know, nightclub. Like, I would normally do nightclub appearances after the fight to, like, make a little extra money, you know?

1:53:29Nightclub I went to that night, it was like the whole nightclub was just staring at you, right? Like, music's playing. Nobody's dancing. Nobody's doing their thing. They're just looking at you, right? And it's just like, I just felt fucking, again, that awkwardness of notoriety, of attention being brought on me came back and was like, this is fucking weird. You know, I was just like, though what I accomplished is something different, like, I'm still the same person that I've always been. Why, like, it was something to learn from. Did you ever get used to that? I did. I have. Fighting has really gotten me to a place to open myself up a lot more. How did you get used to that? I'm curious. Practice.

1:54:31Because people, when you reach a certain level of fame, people look at you. They get excited. They freeze up. They can't believe it's you. They can't believe what you look like. And when you're not on tv people get to be you know it gets to a point where they have a loss of words yeah yeah and then and and i've maybe experienced like a fraction of what you have, but it's... It is awkward. And it is, like, that's what I say, and that's what I think. I'm like... It's just... Yeah. Same person. Yes. It's just practice. For me, it was just practice. Like, doing it over and over again. More interviews I did, the more I opened up and got okay with letting people inside. Those interactions, those one-on-one interactions, like, what really helped me with that is as I saw people, I started seeing, like, my family in them.

1:55:41I started seeing, like, cousins, people that I grew up with. You mean you saw family in them? Whether it was a stranger talking to me out of nowhere. I saw them very familiar to me as like, oh, you're just like my cousin. You're just like my like like you're just like them right so i started seeing something very familiar in people a closeness like like you're not just a fan no no you're somebody else but yes you enjoy like what i do and all you're doing is giving praise or creating that connection. You're connecting with me, acknowledging me, and I'm acknowledging you. I'm not... The way I started thinking about it, because I would think... I went through all phases of it, like, don't bother me.

1:56:41It bothered me. People asking me, hey, are you Cain Wallace? No, it's not me. I went through all those areas of avoiding it. Even people signing autographs, I'd make sure that I would personalize them so they wouldn't sell them. So all of that, I avoided it all until I really started seeing the familiar sides to people where they're acknowledging me, now I'm acknowledging you, okay? Because there's something deeper within you. And in the higher level, I just felt like, well, this is what you're doing. Like, this is what's brought before you. Like, God has put you in this, every position, including you to interact with somebody in that moment. That's already written right there too. So as they're acknowledging me,

1:57:50I'm acknowledging them and I'm giving them time now. I just started doing that. I started being patient with people, spending time with them, even if it's a short interaction. But I opened myself up to give them time, to give of myself. Were you married at the time? Yes. interaction, but I opened myself up to give them time to give up myself. Were you married at the time? Yes. Do you have a daughter at the time? Yes. How much time were you willing to give people that you don't know and take away from your wife and daughter? That was the hardest part right there was us doing family time together, us eating, you know, and being disrupted in that way, to, like, to take a picture, doing family things.

1:58:39I remember with my time with my wife, like, being, you know, in a kiss together to our being disrupted to take a picture. Right? So just the more that I dealt with it, I just realized to have a balance with it. The best way that I could was, yes, there are certain times when you can interrupt somebody and sometimes that aren't most appropriate, was, yes, there are certain times when you can, like, interrupt somebody, and sometimes that aren't most appropriate, but people don't know what they're doing, you know? And the best way to do it is to let your family understand what's going on beforehand. So it's not necessarily anymore that you're getting bugged or that you're being bothered it's more of look i tell my kids this like a look

1:59:36i've done these things in my past people love me for that okay and they just want time that's it like the time i give you like i give you all of my time like when i'm with you here they just want a little bit of time to say hi take a picture to say thank you and that's it okay so now putting gas in or something like that like like pumping gas. Somebody sees me, and my kids are seeing that. And they say, hey. And I say, hey, what's up? Have a cool little interaction where my kids think I knew them. No longer are they a stranger. They're like, did you know them? Who was that? Like, I don't know. He said his name was so-and-so, but he just wanted to say hi, the picture. Right? So me accepting it more and being, again, I'm called to do this, like this is written

2:00:37already in my life, to do this at this moment right here. Every moment that I'm living is made exactly for me perfectly. So how do I want to go through it all? And now all those interactions, I just give. I give. I share. I acknowledge them. You know, say thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you for... And it's no longer... It's easy. It's easy. It's's no longer, it's easy. It's easy, it's beautiful, beautiful connections that we make. Just a quick little, you know, like I appreciate the souls coming together and interacting. Yeah. Right on. Good way to be. Yeah, yeah. You make life what you want. good boy to be yeah yeah you make you make life what you make it you know like however you want to be in life

2:01:34you can make it so if I want to be in love with life every day then I gotta be that's gotta be within me and I gotta let that out people are gonna gravitate towards that some people are not gonna like it at all either that's okay too but That's got to be within me. And I got to let that out. People are going to gravitate towards that. Some people are not going to like it at all either. That's okay too. But that's not, nothing's going to take me away from me loving life. Of what God is doing for me every moment of every day. Every moment is for me to go within and understand myself. There are no accidents that it's all written. It's already there. It's in life. It's unfolding in front of you for you, for me to grow into what I need to grow into. So how do I want to do that? Well,

2:02:24that's the case. Now I'm going to fucking dive deep into it and make this life as magical as I can that's what I'm going to do and I'm going to share that with people whether you like it or not that's just me and I'm going to share it have you talked to Brock Lesnar since then did you talk to him after that fight we did we did a WWE wrestling match afterwards Have you talked to Brock Lesnar since then? Did you talk to him after that fight? We did. We did a WWE wrestling match afterwards. You did? I did a wrestling match with him. He kind of fucked me over on that. He was like, I'm not a wrestler like him, you know? So I'm like, dude, let's do something together so we can fucking make this shit look good.

2:03:07And he's just not there with that. Like, to work with people like that, you know? But yeah, yeah, he talked a little bit. I think we had a better understanding of, like, who we are. Just a little, you know, like, brother, don't take it personal man it's just you know we fucking did it back then it's all good you guys talk today huh no no i don't think he talks to many people in general um and i don't talk to many other fighters either um but like we follow each other i follow people people on social media, guys that I follow. I follow them. I like their stuff, you know, like support them, you know, and that. And whatever I can do for them, I'm there, you know, whatever they need, like I'm there.

2:03:57I would love, I would love to take some of those guys and do some plant medicine with them. I would love to do that, have a healing session with all our guys that I battled with. Who do you admire today? Admire? It's in the ring it's fighting fighting oh uh I don't watch fighting too much but I see a lot of like stuff that I see a lot of like uh people's fights later on social media. I like them all. Yeah. I don't think there's any, I'm not like a fan of it like I used to be, but I know guys now have certain skills. Like, I think Islam, one of my teammates, one of Khab guys that uh it could be even in islam islam um it's fucking so skilled in the game like fucking good everywhere to where when he was coming

2:05:22up i'd spar with him like light sparring and hit me with stuff, and nobody hits me with stuff. But he'd hit me with stuff. I'm like, what the fuck did that come from? So I'm like, this guy's good. But everybody has something great that they bring to the table, and I enjoy just where the sport is now. I feel like it's gotten so popular, and I knew it was going to happen. It's gotten so popular, the guys have gotten so polished, so good everywhere, that it's getting to a place or pretty where near it needs to be. People know that this is a high-level combat sport, at the highest level. And it's opened up the way to a lot more people doing jiu-jitsu, a lot more people wrestling now in high school.

2:06:17You know, girls wrestling in college is one of the fastest-growing sports in the world. Is it really? It is. Oh, shit. I believe it all has to do with mixed martial arts and the UFC mixed martial arts in general and the UFC is the pinnacle yes yes so it's opened up all these doors and I feel like when I was in it it was in a stage of going through that door it wasn't there yet I remember going they had me do a lot of publicity stuff in Mexico. So when I first started fighting, they knew I spoke, you know, some Spanish and all that, my background, that I could be a good, like, good person to go there and help the sport grow in Mexico and, like, Latin-speaking countries. And when I first got there, doing the sport grow in Mexico and like Latin speaking countries

2:07:07and when I first got there doing like PR with like newspapers and TV dude they looked at me like what the fuck are you doing like what do you like they couldn't believe that me like they call me pocho which is like raised in the US don't know that good of Spanish you know like you're bringing this sport over to here like a sport like the sport that's fucking cock fighting for humans you know that's what it was looked at back then oh shit that's what it was looked at back then and people that are not again that didn't know anything about it that were that's what it was looked at back then. Oh shit. So it was looked at back then and people that are not, again, that didn't know anything about it that were,

2:07:52they're ignorant to it were, yeah, like this is just street fighting. Like it's not even a fight. It's not even a sport, whatever, you know? And that's kind of how I got, that was like the, my first couple of times of being welcomed into Mexico, uh, supporting a brand, a sport, right? To where for me, dude, again, it was like all those things of like growing up, like I grew up speaking Spanish first, my first language, okay? Then I went to school where I didn't speak English that well. And it was like, okay, well, you don't, it was almost like, yeah, you don't fit in. And then as I started speaking more English and my brothers and sisters spoke English, my mom could speak English very well.

2:08:39So we spoke English at the home naturally. So I started losing a lot of my spanish because my dad was always working to where i had people on the other side more mexican spanish-speaking people to where like you don't speak big of a spanish so it was again like i didn't fit in anywhere right i'm not good here i'm not good here my parents would say the same thing i don't feel like you guys either like i don't go like you guys either. I don't give a fuck. I'm going with the end. It doesn't matter how good I can speak any fucking language. I can barely speak English sometimes. What about this? No? You're basically... I went through that again right uh mexico city like doing that and again i just had to be like dude i just kind of had to laugh at it during the interviews

2:09:38i just laughed at it and said look this is what the sport is you You're going to love it later on. And I just know you will. But it's okay if you don't either. But this is what I got. You know? I just had to give up. Like, hey, man. And then with winning, winning more and more, really brought me winning more and more, brought more popularity to it especially in that and in that in that area of the world what are your parents thinking they're just proud man they're just happy proud like i'll bet like yeah they're just you know they come to the fights. They did. They would come in some of the fights. Um, they come some of the fights, you know, family members, coworkers, people in town, just showing them love,

2:10:41you know, like, yeah, yeah. It was, uh, yeah. Who was your first loss? First loss against Judo Santos. Yeah. I got knocked out pretty quick in the first loss. So I don't think my dad watched any more fights after that. Really? He said it was hard to watch. Yeah, it was hard. It was hard for him to watch. I can understand why. When was the last time you had lost? Before that? Yeah, was it college wrestling? Yeah, college wrestling. Holy shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, college wrestling. Yeah, that was a good... I mean, that was a good learning lesson, again, you know? It was a big show. I had a lot of pressure going in, and I was kind of injured going in as well. My knee was pretty injured where I couldn't kick, I couldn't even wrestle, I couldn't

2:11:54get down and take somebody down. What I needed to do for him, for Junior, was to do that. So I wasn't the best going in, but I also rushed it as well. I was like, well, instead of taking time off and telling how I'm hurt and take more time to, like, recover and all that, I just went ahead and did it. Like, I don't want to let anybody down, you know? So I learned. And Junior did his thing, man. He's a great athlete, great fighter. He took me out pretty quick so um i understood like look make sure you're 100 correct for everything before you do anything make sure you're prepared how you have to be because something like him you can't do that going in there's no way there's no way even even at your best like it's slim to win against him so he was junior man i i love him

2:12:51for the competitor that he is like he brought out something in me that i had like i had to like really dig deep for you know it was like it was like the fights with him were like my masterpiece right there like but with only with only an opponent like him would it bring this out of me. You know? So, yeah. How did you process that loss after not losing for years and years and years? I was good with it. It was fine? Yeah. And then you relunched. No, I was just... years and years and years i was good with it it was fine yeah and then i watched and no i was just i knew what i again i understood what i did and to to not win you know i understood that and it's okay it's like it's all good i feel like people around me really started like uh

2:13:41like coaches and stuff really like it freaked them out more. And that was the hardest part was like, not Javier. Me and Javier were always very good here. We were always on the same level. But some people started saying like the Javier changed the game plan to only stand up with him. But they're like, it's like, what? You weren't here the whole camp? You didn't know I couldn't wrestle? You know? Like, you know what I was going into a fight with. So that was the hardest part. Like, people around me just sort of like, I had to like block them away and just say, like, look, it's okay. All right? I know what I have to do. Like, what you guys are okay. It's okay. All right? I know what I have to do.

2:14:28Like, what you guys are doing right now, freaking out, is not doing anything. It's not doing any good. It's messing me up. So, like, leave, you know, leave kind of thing. Yeah. So, no, I just knew, like, you have to be prepared. You have to be ready. Somebody like him, you got to be fucking polished, you know, and training for him, my second fight. So I fought Bigfoot after that. I knocked him out. Oh, no, I knocked him out. I got a TKO, and I cut him up pretty bad. He was fucking bloody, you know, really like bloody. So Junior really helped me get that, that hunger back, like more hungry. Okay. And then when I fought him the second time, man, I fucking digged into like everything that I had.

2:15:23I went into like the dark with it, you know, that like, I want to fucking really die out there. I'm going to give you everything I have, everything. I don't care if I fucking get so tired that I fall. Nothing, nothing. I'm going to keep this up the whole time. 25 minutes, nonstop. I'm going to be on you. I'm going to attack you every which way. And I really had to go to a dark place for that like i'm gonna go out and kill if he if he dies as we're doing it fine that's what i'm looking for and if i die doing it then that's okay as well so i really went into like a dark place with myself of, this is where you need to be in order to beat a person like him. This is where you have to be spiritually, mentally.

2:16:20You're going to go out and punish. Your final fight was in 2019, correct? 2018 or 2019, yeah. How did that go? Not good. Did you know before it happened that this was getting close to the end? Yeah, I did. You did? I did. Yeah. I just think the way that I work I I get bored with things if that makes any sense like with wrestling it got to a point where it got boring I understood it so much that it wasn't teaching me that much anymore same with fighting I've done so much at that moment it wasn't teaching me that that much anymore same with fighting i've done so much at that moment it wasn't teaching me anymore like i needed to be taught so i was getting bored with it with how much i gave and how little it was giving me back so i remember going to that fight

2:17:21right as i'm walking into the cage i I ask God, I say, God, if this is all that life is right here, I don't want anymore. So you show me what it is, please. I want more than this, than what this is right now. So that's what I said going in. I got hit right away as I came into a shot. I was knocked out on my feet. As I fell down, I fell over my leg, like really, like tore everything in my knee except for my ACL. So if I were even going to fight after that, like, it'd be no. You know, it wasn't going to happen. So until, okay, I had this conversation with God at the moment that I want something else out of life more than what I've been used to. Didn't know what I was asking for. So I did do a lucha libre match after that with the whole knee brace on and everything.

2:18:50Like, my knee was pretty jacked up. And I was telling people that I was going to do this Lucha match. And I'm like, how am I going to do it with my knee jacked up like this, you know? Like, that was a crazy story. It went in, it was like the week of the match. I practiced lucha here and there at a place in San Jose, but I was like, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing, you know, at all, like nothing. I'm there the week of the show and it's the biggest show of the year in AAA so all these fans of mine know that I'm going to do this match and I don't know what I'm doing number one at all but I'm promoting it I don't know what the fuck I'm going to wear or anything nothing, I got nothing I'm like fuck this anything, right? Nothing. Like, I got nothing. I'm like, fuck, this is fucking stupid.

2:19:47You know? Like... And then the day before, the night before, fucking it all comes together. It was like... Again, it was like a very spiritual just, like, time, like a moment. It was like, nothing's coming together. nothing is already nothing's planned nothing and then all of a sudden the night before it fucking all comes together everything i mean i get the whole outfit you know all that fucking looks good i cool i know what i'm doing the night before. Like we piece it all together. And like, I do like, they asked me like, what do you want to do out there? And they're thinking, okay, come on, maybe me do some MMA stuff. I'm like, no, no, I want to do some Lucha stuff. Like I'm going to fucking do some flips and shit,

2:20:37you know? Like, and then, okay, can you do this? I'm like, well, show me how to do it. And let me see if I can do it. So everything they did, they showed me how to do. And I learned it right there that night. Okay, I'll do that. Boom, boom, boom. So we did the whole choreography, all that, right? I felt like, okay, good. We got it all packed. Did the show that night and it fucking blew up. Like surprised so many people by doing, yeah, yeah. Dude, I was like, again, I was like, God, like, what the fuck? I don't know what I'm doing. And then it all came together, and then the show was great. Like, better than expected. It felt like after I won, like, against Brock, people were, like, looking at me,

2:21:18like, what the fuck just happened? I'm like, I don't know. I have no idea. Yeah, yeah. So it was just crazy. It's almost like you just go out and do it. Even if you're not prepared. I don't know. It was weird. You're not prepared. Jesus is always looking for a challenge. That's kind of what I meant after you beat Lesnar. I mean, you hit the top of wrestling. You got bored. You hit the top, the UFC, so eventually you got bored. How do you find the next thing? I mean, does it just, you know, just come to you? Yeah, it does. You pray for it. It just comes to you man uh i i know that that drive that energy needs to go somewhere else and hopefully it's somewhere positive somewhere that again that love needs to go to some into

2:22:17something else whatever way that is that love needs to transfer constantly to other things. So the Lucifer here and there a little bit. And then I'm just open to receiving. I'm open to receiving. Even if I don't know what I'm going to be doing next, it somehow finds me. I'm like, wow, there's something here. Okay, let me go there. Let me learn about that. So 2020, after my career going down, I just got cut from WWE because I just need development. You know, like it's a whole different dance, all this. My mom passed away that year. Yeah, I was going to say, you know, 2019 was your last fight, and also your mom and your brother passed away just a few months apart. Yeah. What happened? So my mom had life, like, towards the end of her life was very immobile.

2:23:31Very what? Like she's very immobile, so she couldn't move around much, you know? So quality of life had to like, so at the end of her life was sitting a lot, laying down a lot, you know, kind of bedridden a lot. Osteoporosis um diabetes and then i saw yeah i just saw like the medical side of it of how all these things that she was taking to like make her feel better she had to take all these other things to, like, counteract the things she was taking. So it was kind of weird. It was kind of weird to, like, be exposed to that from her, you know, from, like, from watching her. So she's been written a lot. And, yeah, one day she just passed. Um, but that to me for, for that was more of like a, it was like a weight, weight lifting

2:24:35being, it's like a weight being lifted. Okay. It was more like, I'm happy she's gone. You know, she's not, uh, struggling anymore. She's not, um, yeah, she's free you know so that was more that was more that it was time and we talked and everything before all that um and she asked me once she asked me she was like how'd i do, you know, like in life, right? How'd I do? She asked you that? Yeah. I said, man, you're fucking perfect. That's awesome, man. Yeah. She was, brother. She fucking was. So, like, man, you're that's like perfect you're the best so yeah it's good to give her that well she knew you know, she knew. It was good to share that with her. Yeah, then I just saw her transfer to the other side, like towards the end of her life

2:25:56she wasn't here. Her mind was somewhere else. She was in a different place, a different realm, you know. She was like a newborn looking out looking out not really looking at anything right so I knew it was time yeah she left it was good it was peaceful yeah my brother had he got into a long life of just a lot of substance abuse. I think a lot of things just really messed with him in his life. Like school, I think, really was hard on him. He had a lot of anger within him. Didn't put it into the right places so they came out wrong places and he started doing a lot of a lot of drugs like methamphetamines yeah going into alcohol as well our alcohol and he got off the methamphetamines, and then he needed,

2:27:10well, he got into alcohol, like, a lot, really hardcore, and again, that was something that was new to me, I didn't really understand what all that was, so I saw firsthand through him. He told me about him having stomach ulcers time to time, going to the hospital, getting stitched up, and then getting out. And I didn't realize that's the road people go down when they're that heavily drinking. And I'm talking about, like, dude, a couple bottles, like, just hardcore, just drinking it, just to not feel so much, to a point where you can't even get off of it. Because then that would kill him. So he was at our house, Michelle and I, staying there. We were trying to help him get sober and all that.

2:28:19It wasn't working. So he started getting, like, towards the end of his life, jaundice. Yeah, jaundice, liver shut down. Yeah, jaundice, liver shut down. Oh, man. Yeah, liver shut down. And again, fuck, I didn't know, brother. I didn't know what all that meant. More so just saw it in front of me like uh yeah and then yeah one day he had a like a big stomach ulcer stomach just ruptured um got the call from michelle that he was in the hospital took him uh ambulance came picked him up took him he's bleeding everywhere um so went to the hospital and he was just fighting for his life and it was like a water faucet of blood coming out um yeah so yeah i watched him do that. Yeah. That was hard. That was the fucking hardest thing I've ever gone through at the moment was that.

2:29:41Was watching him just helpless fucking go through that. And I was just so like also mad at him too. You know, like, this is what you wanted right here, right? Couldn't even give him like a moment of grace at the moment. I was so into like, you know what you were doing as well, right? So I couldn't even give him that moment of his last moments with us. I was so into that. Yeah. So. last like moments with us i was so into that yeah so yeah so yeah so what would you say to him now if you had the opportunity to say one last thing i've already said it i love. Thank you for being the best big brother. Yeah, I've had, I've already had healing with that. We've already talked. We know where we stand and it's not,

2:30:36it's not for the downs that we're in. It's not. The way that I learned from that, from that moment, was to take myself out of the picture. Take my emotions out of the picture. No matter what, no matter who's gone through anything at that moment, if they're leaving this earth, you give them their time, no matter what. You do that. Appreciation. You do that. Appreciation. You do that. So he taught me a hard lesson right there. And we had love between us, we did, big time. So I had to just focus on what, the great things he's done to this earth the great things that he showed me how he took care of me you know and my heart was there to help him but he just couldn't help himself for that moment yeah

2:31:47yeah so yeah um yeah did you do your first ayahuasca ceremony one year on the one the one year anniversary i didn't yeah um Yeah. So, yeah, it's going at the end of my career. And also, mainly having that death with my brother and the way that he passed was fucking hard and difficult. home um so after that i saw a medium somebody speaks to the other side um that helped me put him to rest a lot because i had a conversation with him of him just saying like look i look, I didn't know what I was doing. I'm sorry. Plain and simple, you know? I don't gotta relive his death over and over again like that. I don't. Like, I relive the things we've gone through in life. So that helped me, like, okay, like, yes.

2:33:06Yes. Like, yes. That's, like, look at the great things the positive things what we taught each other like the love between us that's all that matters that love between us that's it so it helped me um well that night when he passed away, man, that was the first night I ever left my body. You left your body? I did. Seeing that, gotten home, and Michelle and I, we were just talking over what just happened. Everything, we were just like, so traumatized over what just happened like everything we're just like and like so traumatized over what just happened and as i was sitting there like laying like kind of like laying down i just decided to let let go fully so i let go of everything like i let go of myself for a moment. Like, I don't care anymore.

2:34:08I'm not attached to this anymore at this moment. So that trauma really, like, helped me let go. So, yeah, I left. Left my body for a moment. I felt like a lifting, like I was leaving. And that made me do that. So we get into that year. I already started processing of putting him away, you know, like doing all of that. And then a friend of mine, a good friend of mine, tells me about a ceremony he just did. So ayahuasca Saturday, a 5-a-meal DMT Sunday. And he explains to me everything that happened in the ceremony and his experience. And just off his experience, I said, oh, I don't think I have to do it because you explained it, I got it, right? But then he tells me the day that it's on, it's the anniversary of my brother's passing.

2:35:19I said, okay, I'll be there. Did no research, no research. No intentions. I just felt like I had to be there for a reason. I didn't know what. So I show up and don't know anything about ceremonies in general at all. This, where I went to, was more like a one day in do someone and get out so no introduction no integration didn't know anything about anything i don't know i'm just fucking gonna show up right i just feel like i have to be here so first day's ayahuasca start uh they give you cups and they give you as much as you want, like every hour or so, cups, if you want to keep going deeper into the experience. So as soon as I felt the medicine. It felt like I know this medicine more than I know myself. I felt like

2:36:39what ayahuasca was, I know that more than I know myself. That was very familiar to me, as if I've been there before, as I've done this before. So as soon as I felt the experience, I said, I'm with you on everything you want to do. I'm with you. You show me what you need to show me. And my first experience, I first started looking at my family, each one individually, and saw them. I saw them more than what I've ever seen of them. I understood them more than I ever understood them. Like the little things, like my daughter, for instance, like, I saw her so much, like, I finally, like, understood her now than before I didn't. The way that I was trying to be a father was what I thought was supposed to be a father,

2:37:42was we expect these certain things to be a good person to where now i just i saw her in her essence of what she was bringing to me and that was i saw the love in her i saw the beauty in her all of it even the quirks and all that i can like where you think our shortcomings, like that's all her own essence of beauty and I saw that there, finally like oh, like I understand you now more than ever and I understood family and friends a lot more than ever and my job as a parent is to be there unconditionally with love. That's it. You need something from me, wisdom, whatever, I'm right here whenever you want. But I'm going to love and support you no matter what, with kindness, with acceptance. I'm not going to freak out you telling me you did something like no

2:38:47you did this okay well how can i help okay i can help this way i'm here i'm here for you to hold space like you need to cry whatever man i'm with you it's all good do whatever you need to do i'm here i love you no matter what so i saw everybody like that. I even saw people that I didn't even like. And I appreciated them for what they were showing me. And that was themselves to have me grow into something much more pure in myself. Even if somebody I don't like, even if somebody doesn't see the same things I do, even if they're like shitheads, they're fucking bad people, but they're essential for my growth no matter what. So everybody's essential. So I appreciate everybody for being their own authentic self at the moment, right?

2:39:43And then, dude, I felt like I just had like, I felt like my heart got unlocked. Maybe not totally, because we're always going to keep growing. But my heart got so unlocked than what I knew before. My heart, my mind, my soul got unlocked to either these things that I got were downloads or it was just stuff that I remember finally. I believe the fullness is already within us. We just got to remember, you know, like all those things are already within us. We just got to remember. That's it. It's already there. You don't got to outsource it. It's right there. It's already in here. So I feel like there's so much that I understood, more than I understood of God, more than I understood of life, life that life is perfectly made for me, for you, for me, exactly every moment

2:40:56for you to grow into what you need to grow into, to essentially ascend. Okay? So, if it's made for me exactly every moment, for me to grow into that, now how do I go through it? Do I go through it with resistance? No. I go through it with acceptance, through grace, with love and compassion. Me seeing that, I said, oh, okay. So I need to make my life more loving. Like I need to be in a love story with my life every moment. Even if it's just me by myself, I need to have a love story with me. It starts with me. So i felt like i had like a new lease on life where i understood a lot more um i felt like everybody needed to do something like this and this type of medicine at the time uh so i've again with no integration you had cane this one day, and then within a week or two,

2:42:10you had cane this other way. So it was a lot for people to take in, especially my closest family and friends. And that wasn't even the five-year meal trip. Yeah. I've done ayahuasca I've done Ibogaine a handful of times and twice five of me a handful of times psilocybin I've had good experiences I've had horrific experiences how has that changed your interpretations of God, if it has? From what I was taught and what I could perceive from people teaching it to me at a young age, to me experiencing what I experience and what I see now, with my experiences with it. So when I had a five-year male trip, I died off of that. I had a good ego death. Though did I know it was ego, i just knew i was dying on it

2:43:33and the time of death i was filled with so much love like endless amounts of love to where i was ready to go. Regardless if I came back and it didn't even matter. None of it mattered but being in a state of love. So I fully let go. My consciousness left my body but became everything else after that. So as I left, my consciousness expanded. And I became the trees. I became the earth. I became space. And I became beyond. So I was all of it, yet nothing as well, all at once. And the message that I got there that was ingrained into my soul from now on is, there's only one here. All different versions, if you want to say that, but there's only one here. God is the only thing that exists. That's it.

2:44:53God is within me. I'm looking out at myself. That's my viewpoint. That's from my experience. I know people have different viewpoints. The oneness. The oneness is the only thing that exists, on all different levels, teaching itself to get back to the higher. So where I'm at now with it, I am here as myself, learning from myself, experiencing myself, always. Now, there's depths to the self. That's a forever ongoing thing. Where I'm at with it right now is that I'm interacting with myself all the time. Myself is guiding myself. There's no you or I. There's only the I Am. That's it. Different versions in this earth plane to help us on the path of ascension, getting out of the third dimension. It's a forever learning of yourself.

2:46:15That's all we have, time, space. Just here now, that's it. So that was ingrained into me at that moment. To where I'm looking at myself. I'm seeing the sun sets me. Like, how beautiful is I? Like, having compassion for animals now because there is no you or I. There's a oneness. And there's always, there's a forever depth of knowing yourself. More, there's more. The bigger you're deep, the more you the bigger you're deep the more you go out like the more you go within more will be shown to you it's how much you want but you gotta look for it you gotta dig deep for it you gotta keep keep on the journey let's take a quick break. I'm excited to introduce to you the newest member of my family. We call him Stanley.

2:47:37We got Stanley this past Christmas, and pretty quickly my focus became making sure he was safe while still giving him the freedom to actually be a dog. I went looking for the top-rated GPS fence, the number one, and that's how I found Spot On. Stanley wears their Nova collar. With Spot On, I set up a GPS fence for Stanley right on my phone. No physical fence, no leash. I just walk my property line or draw it on the map and that's the boundary the collar recognizes. I can create multiple fences, save them, and adjust them whenever I need to. So whether we're at home or traveling, Stanley always knows where his boundaries are. Another thing that stood out to me is these collars are designed right here in the USA and assembled in New Hampshire by a team that's been working with high-precision GPS technology for years.

2:48:33And you can tell a lot of attention went into making this thing reliable. The Nova collar uses a dual-band GPS system connected to more than 150 satellites, along with an antenna that's over five times larger than typical GPS fence collars. That keeps the boundary accurate, even around trees, terrain, and changing conditions. SpotOn's True Location technology has been independently tested and delivers 99.3% containment, which matters when you're trusting something with your dog's it's incredibly durable and on top of that I can check his location in real time send voice commands directly to the collar and track his activity through the day I use spot on so Stanley gets the freedom to run and explore and I get the peace of mind knowing he's safe. Let your dog roam with

2:49:29Spot On. Go to spotonfence.com slash SRS and use code SRS for $50 off the Nova collar. That's spotonfence.com slash SRS and use code SRS for $50 off. You've seen the movie. Guy walks through a train station, pulls a phone out of his jacket, makes one call, drops it in a trash can, and keeps walking. Clean. That's not Hollywood. That's tradecraft. And the principle behind it is simple. Never let one piece of your life connect to another. Here's your problem. You've got one number. It's on your bank account. It's on your kid's school forms, the pizza place, the dating app, the guy who sold you your truck. One number in every part of your life is wired to it. That's not a phone. That's a map to your front door, and it's for sale.

2:50:29Glacier gives you burner numbers, any US area code you want. Hand it out, use it, and the second it starts filling up with spam calls or somebody you'd rather not hear from again, you delete it. It's gone. Make another one. That's the loud half. Here's the quiet half. Right now, sitting in your pocket, your phone is talking. Apps you're not even using are calling out to servers you've never heard of. Telling them where you are, what you look at, what you buy. You never approved it. It just happens. All day, every day. Glacier Secure DNS cuts those calls before they connect. Not after, before. Two days after we launched, I checked my own phone. 837 trackers blocked. Before lunch. This is intelligence-grade protection.

2:51:23The kind of thing that used to cost tens of thousands of dollars of phone and only went to people with clearances. Now it's an app and it could be yours. And I want to be straight with you. I'm not reading somebody else's ad. I'm a co-founder of this company. I put my name, my money, and a year of my life into building this. Alongside the people who did the work for real. I use it every single day. Install the app, hit connect, and you're protected. That's it. It's that simple. Theglacierapp.com or find Glacier in the App Store. Remember, privacy isn't paranoia. It's protection ready to roll into your son alright where do we start so when I was coming back from my 5MEO DMT trip, I spoke to God again

2:52:35and I said, I work for you now. Everything I do for you, everything I do, I do for you. So, you just continue to show me. Put the path out in front of me. And do it. So my life changed big time, not just internally, but externally. My wife at the time, Michelle, we just... On a different journey of self-discovery. Not that you couldn't coexist, you can, and we have. We've been able to do that. But, I had to go out and learn, learn what I wanted to learn, which was, learn the divine through plant medicine, but also learning from being by myself, solitude, nature. I got into everything. I got into all different religions. I got into the cult as well.

2:54:09What cult? I got into the occult as well. What occult? Huh? What occult? The occult. You got into the occult. Yeah. So like Hermetic teachings, the Taupe Atlantean. Everything just really spoke well to me. All of it did. So religions, I started learning more about different religions as well, not just Christianity. So I saw spiritual work as mixed martial arts, and that's how I see it now, is that I can learn from everybody, every form of way of doing certain things. I can take it into myself and take the parts that I think are very beneficial, the parts that I don't think are very beneficial, I leave them and I know that there's spiritual teachers everywhere, like on the face of the planet, real people that are black belts, but not all black belts are the same.

2:55:18So knowing that the power's within you, it's not somebody externally, they can teach you some things. Yes, they can. They don't have all the answers. No one, not all one person does. So I realized the second MMA and Jiu Jitsu, it's going to be a black belt, but there's levels to it as well. And they may be good at certain things, but they're not good at other things. They may be good at teaching. They may not be good at certain techniques their body type so i really saw it that way have discernment have boundaries set up with myself with other people more so than what i did before on extracting what makes sense to me and putting that in to the way that I want to put it into and how I want it to form

2:56:10in within me and out. And whether it's truth or whether it's not. If it's love, if it's wisdom, compassion, then all that's truth. It is. If there's anything outside of that, then I don't take that with me. And I don't tell people, that's the wrong way of doing things. No. Let them do them. Let people do them. I read the teachings. What I get out of it, what I can make it make sense for me, and have it speak to me, then I try to dive deeper with it. I try to go deeper with it, deeper understanding. And how can I do that? Well, it's just my train of thought by dissecting things, trying to make sense for me, and trying to teach me. So essentially I'm open to all, even the darkness, but the darkness is more of,

2:57:21I know that is not truth. Then why are you open to it? I'm open to it. I'm open to it, but I don't let it come in me. I have discernment over that. I have discernment over all darkness. What I am is a child of the divine, a child of light, a child of truth, truth child of love so but i can go into some dark places as well if you push me there okay so i know that's within me as well i choose to be this way but if i have to i'll go there and i'll go just as dark as you or even darker okay so don't fuck with me like you do not cross certain lines you don't do that so those are the boundaries that have up why do i open up to it better i don't let it in i need to learn what your objective is i need to learn what your train of thought is

2:58:23i need to know what you're trying to do here on this earth. That's the poison, my brothers and sisters. No, fuck that. We're not doing that. Okay? So, I choose to walk a certain path. A divine path of truth. I'm not perfect, but I choose to walk down this path. And I walk down it with dignity, with respect, with grace, and all things. And I may mess up here and there, I will. And it's given. I'm still learning. I'm always learning. But I'm going to take those mistakes and I'm going to transmute them into something positive because I had that choice as well to do that. So I learn from everybody. If it doesn't line up to me, I don't take it in. If it's hurting other people, if I can put a stop to it,

2:59:24I will in some way or another. So that's how I see it. It's interesting. It's learning your enemy, you know? It's learning your enemy, you know? It's learning your enemy's objective. If I don't know what I'm fighting against, how can I fight against them? How can I prepare myself? How do you learn it? Just by whether it's things of like reading, yeah, I take things out that speak to me that are truth. And things that aren't lined up with me, I don't take them. I say, okay, well, this is what you're about. And the only way I can know somebody is really by sitting down with them, conversating with them. So I can't judge you. I can't judge you, what you look at or what you think you're associated with.

3:00:38I can't. Because we haven't had time to spend time with each other and conversate and hang out with each other to know what you're about. So can't judge you off of one thing you said i can't judge you off of what things that you're practicing because you may carry yourself differently so i'm open to a lot of things but i don't let everything in within me. I don't. And I realized from my journeys that the darkness, the, it's not truth, it's not real. It's an illusion. There's only one truth. That's love. That's it. Everything else is fake. Yeah, someone may kill me, but I go home. This is not my home. I'm learning here. That's it. I have a short amount of time here. That's it. We all do. What do you think happens when you die?

3:01:47You go back home. What is home? God. You're back to the one where we all come from. We all come back from Source. We all go back to Source. The one truth, the love, the wisdom, the eternalness of it all. Our humans' words can't even explain that. I can't paint you a picture of what that is because there's so much to that that I cannot describe it. We try to describe it. People fight wars over it, what that is. But it's something that's indescribable to humans. Do you think you've experienced that through your 5MEO trip I've experienced levels of it of what only I could comprehend at the time yes for what this physical body can take in I've experienced as much as this physical body and my mental capacity

3:02:46and my heart and soul can take in at that moment. That's all that I experienced. There's an infinite amount more, infinite amount more of love, of wisdom that I can't even grasp. I know that. So my job is to dig deeper. It's to go within more. It's to try to understand more. Be open to the understanding of it all, of everything. Do you believe in a heaven and hell? I do. Well, the way that I see it is those that put themselves there, mentally, soul level, they'll be there. We all manifest what we want to manifest. Wouldn't that mean that the darkness is real? But nothing's real to love. To the highest form of God, that's an illusion. Because though we may practice that here on this earth, as you go on to higher planes, that gets erased.

3:04:12Because that's a low level of being. And if we have an infinite amount of time, well, this is how I... If we have an infinite amount of time to know all of yourself, you wouldn't be in that place. Because it's a low level of being okay and we're all going to the same place well you do it takes work but you're going to be playing with that for so long until you get bored with it and understand that's not real. It's fake. It's not real. So you think we all go to the same place? You have to... I think you get bored of it so much that you'll have to. Or you just choose to stay there. But with the infinite amount of time of growth, I don't understand how some people to stay there. But with the infinite amount of time of growth, I don't understand how some people could stay there,

3:05:11but I believe it's possible to stay there. Stay at a low level and you do not rise up. Like with things growing, like plants growing, some die, some grow, some bloom, you know, seeds get dropped. They don't even have a chance to form. I think all that happens. It does. So it's an internal growth, continuously looking from within, not outward, from within, and you'll get those things that you need to constantly move up so it is it is work is a choice but like after after infinite amount of time wouldn't you fucking get tired of that my thought wouldn't you get tired of that i believe i believe in other past lives. Maybe I've been in that space before, and I got tired of it. Realize that's not where it is.

3:06:12You think reincarnation is how you believe in reincarnation? I do. I do. I do. So, it's helped me so much to be okay with being myself and know that I don't have to rush to anything, to know that I'm on my path. And there's no push anywhere. There's no push. The growth will come when I'm ready. The continuous growth will come when I'm ready. The continuous growth will come when I'm ready. And us being internal beings, all we have is growth. All we have is a deep knowing of ourselves. And that growth is infinite. If you believe in, let me ask this. If you, I'm just curious, I'm not pushing. I believe you said you had a conversation with your brother in one of your journeys, did you? Not a conversation, more of an understanding or knowing,

3:07:31a sense of peace. Okay. Yeah. How could that happen if you believe in reincarnation? That he's in a place of... So I don't believe necessarily that we reincarnate right away. Okay. Like you die and all of a sudden you're... I read a story. So I look into a lot of past life regression as well. So Dolores Cannon has some good books on past life regression as well so dolores cannon uh has some good books on past life regression that really helped me understand life lessons because she goes into well somebody goes to her and says i have this anxiety of this i don't know why and I've never been through something like this. Okay, so puts them through hypnosis, goes through a past life regression.

3:08:30And they talk about a past life that they've gone through this scenario where they gave control to somebody else. Maybe like they're on a ship or something like that. And then they gave their control to a captain that shouldn't have been a captain. Okay? So that person knew we shouldn't be following this dude. But did it anyways. Okay? Now what happens months later? The lost at sea. No food. Nothing. Everybody's dying. Right? What happens in the story is person dies releases from their body and she has the collective consciousness which is the divine conscious within them like well what did you want them to see in this life okay well we wanted them to see that they're in control of their life.

3:09:28And if they don't feel like, if they have any kind of, if they shouldn't follow somebody for some reason, then they shouldn't. You have discernment. You have power within your own self to not do those things because anything can happen. So it was more of like giving the power back to the person so if we're on an infinite moment of growth constantly raising our vibration to a higher level and essentially leaving this third dimension then we have to learn our lessons as some of those masters that have before us that have taught us the way. So that whole lot of things is to trust in your own power, is to grow from within, is that growth from within of love, of higher understanding, in order to constantly raise yourself in that.

3:10:32So what they talk about also in that book is, one instance, being reincarnated to do a certain job here on Earth, working with plants, working with agriculture, while taking a place of schooling to learn all these things before you reincarnate. And now this is what you're doing here, is learning and teaching people how to grow certain things. And you don't know how you grew it, right? Because the memory's wiped out. It's a beautifulness of self-discovery over and over again. And tell you what, this isn't the last plane. We constantly move up and up until we do finally go back to source. And that's what I believe. Until you think you reincarnate over and over until you go to the source, which is a final resting place.

3:11:32Which is back home with the all-knowing, united as one, finally again truly united as one, all-knowing, all-being, everything. Yes. all being everything. Yes. So I think this earth plane is a school. It's a certain school. But other masters have to develop, to ascend, to grow higher than this. No longer do we live here anymore. Our level of consciousness has grown up so much that we no longer have to come back to this anymore, to this third dimension, 3D Earth. Interesting. Let's move to your son. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, I went through these ceremonies, filled with so much understanding, so much love, right? Had this conversation with God. I work for God now.

3:13:03Everything seemed to be all good. And challenges came up where Michelle and I were at different interests, you know, growing differently, right? So that was happening. It was me. It was me pushing her away. It was me. It was me thinking I had to do something it was me thinking i had to do something else or knowing that i had to do something else and that i couldn't i couldn't be near in a relationship where i wasn't giving my all i wasn't fully committed um just that i had to go go go girl and I maybe just needed myself to do that so yeah one night my when my son the bed and he tells me things that are happening to him as they care you know I asked questions about what happened, tells me, asks him how long this has been going on,

3:14:09says for a while, right? So, we do what we're supposed to do, make a report, call the authorities. Um, we do that. What did they say? You know, they should get everybody's documented down on what, you know, they're going through the process. And I understand, like, there's a heavenly realm and there's an earthly realm of laws that we gotta abide by here on earth. Okay. God's laws are a little different. But you gotta do... So you gotta act accordingly. So we do things that are right, correct. We make the report, all that. We hear that the daycare, the son was a four-year-old man. Harry Goulart was there, and that's when my son told me that, you know, did all this stuff. And I asked him, hey, other kids?

3:15:30And he's like, yeah. My son is like, yeah any other kids and he's like yeah my son is like yeah other kids yeah okay so with the report in they they book him um he gets out on friday on that in that same week he gets out on friday with no ankle monitor nothing because it's the friday end of the day and the weekend they're not open so he's out on two days with no ankle monitor on uh not back at the daycare that daycareres at a house. And, okay. So that happens. And then just seeing my son and seeing all the traumas now come out, right, because he discloses. So seeing the hurt in him, breaking down, crying. You could see it yeah yeah yeah let it out you know cry and all this how long had it been going on

3:16:49he'd been going soon as he was there. And the daycare, the mom and the stepdad, all that, that ran it, I knew they were all into it. They let it all happen. So I was like, okay, they're all guilty too like You'd go in during their daycare, you know, hang out the kid and then take him in the bathroom and fucking Crying and all that and if I can let it all happen. So grab more information later on that the dad like Now he's been doing it forever. Okay, now the community, either son didn't know, right, or son did know, and are okay with it. So I had her like, okay, there's people in our community that are okay with this, okay? And the person that told us to go there, like, we asked around, it's a farm across the street

3:17:49from where we live, and the owner was like, yeah, go here. I went there, whatever. Like, whether he knew or not, I don't know. Okay, but now I knew from all this that there are certain families that are okay with this. Holy shit. Okay? So I've never been introduced to this at all like my mom was very open with me talking and she worked with child protective services and she'd be open about all this stuff talk to me about it talk to me what's right what's wrong you know and i never dealt with that and families that i family members that i knew never dealt with it so this was all very just very new to me um other than my mom like prepping me for this like type of thing um so kind of got opened up like okay there's people that know people that

3:18:43don't know there's people that had told us later on, like, their kids opened up and their parents didn't do anything. They didn't even report it. Right? Took them out of there. So, I saw this as a bigger problem than what it was. Just in the community, I didn't know what all of this was in the world. More recent things have been coming out where it's like, okay, this shit's in our everyday. It's in our lives. So me just being exposed to all that. So seeing my kids break down seeing michelle break down that was like hurt my brother that was one of the hardest things that's not the hardest thing to watch them go through their their hurt in the moment watching it and not being able to do anything, but let them go through it.

3:19:52So it was a Monday. We just took my son to the zoo to kind of get him out of things, you know, get him out of them out of things and I'll get them out of the structure of things and just new headspace yeah and okay we believed the daycare would be shut down we knew but then like the owner of the daycare Patty Gillard the mom put out a mass email and kept us on it the owner of the daycare, Patty Billard, the mom, put out a mass email and kept us on it, didn't take us off, saying that, oh no, those allegations are false, that kid wasn't even here that day, blah, blah, blah, and saying that they're going to be open on Monday. Which they technically can't, but that fucking just blew my mind like

3:20:50we did all this and it's still not gonna get stopped what the fuck you know like the system's fucking sucks it's broken people don't know what the fuck they're doing so all these things start running through my mind get home from the zoo and I'm like man I should take a drive like People don't know what the fuck they're doing. So all these things started running through my mind. Get home from the zoo, and I'm like, man, I should take a drive. Like, I didn't have my gun on me at the time. And I had all these thoughts, like, I wish, you know, like, I would see him. Like, what about that? Like, I'm driving out in public. i've never seen them on public ever right well that day i saw them uh i saw them

3:21:50had a conversation with god again. And I said, well, it was like God told me, like, look, well, they're in front of you now. Now what? Right? Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, I said, God, you know what I'm doing. So you make this however you want. You make this outcome however you want to make it. But you know what I'm doing. Follow them, and they went right to pick up Harry, go take him to go to the ankle monitor. And I lost it. Whatever you would say having it is, I lost it. I fucking lost a will to live. Didn't care about dying. Didn't care about anything. I was in a different place at that moment. I wasn't maneuvering in the parameters of what we call normal life. I was in something else. So I did what I did.

3:23:07What age did you start talking to your kid about this stuff? Pretty young, like pretty young. Like take him to the bathroom, you know, and like we wouldn't touch him or anything, you know, we'd like have them test their privates and like, and aim and do all that, you know? And like, and like we we wipe them or anything else like that, we tell them, like, look, like, your dad and I are the only ones that do this, okay? No one else does this, right? And you're in control of your own body. So if you don't like something that somebody's doing, even if it's us, you just tell us, okay? Like, this is appropriate appropriate and this is not anything that you don't like you just say it because you're in charge

3:23:55so we just michelle is really good about that she did that at a young age like telling our kids like what's appropriate what's not appropriate touch things that you don't like say it so so yeah from a pretty young age like party training doing that and it's like now like look at the signs like my son started like digressing his potty and his potty training because that's something that would happen you know so he wouldn't even so he just wet himself versus like you know he was progressing and all that and all of a sudden he wasn't it was like like what's going on like i don't understand right so he's avoiding going to the bathroom yeah so yeah I did what I did. Went through an 11-mile chase shooting at them.

3:24:55And all of them were guilty, so all of them could have got it. Look at the photos now from the crime scene, their truck was shot up, and it was like that I only hit the stepfather who was in on it, hit him in the arm. It was like, it wasn't like, it could have been much worse, right? But it wasn't. And look at the crime scene. I was like, wow, like all of them could have. That's what I was going for. So 11-mile chase. You know, two gun clips. There was like a stop there with police during traffic. So any some people that got hit. I was trying not to, but I wasn't here. I wasn't. So I understand it could hurt a lot of people that weren't even involved um so went into jail that night wow how long were you in jail? So So

3:26:31I went to jail I was there nine months before I got before I got on parole or yeah so nine months solitary confinement before I got on parole. Yeah. So nine months, solitary confinement. But I knew it was part of my path. For whatever reason, right, I knew who was in charge, ultimately in charge. I knew that it was for my betterment, so I didn't let it fucking break me down. I didn't go crazy in there. Like, I knew I was protected. I knew I was being guided in it all. I knew that this is for something bigger. Do I know what? I don't know. But even just that little moment, just what's happened in that first day, like people found out why and everything else, like it brought a lot of people together.

3:27:42It made them more open to speak about these certain things. You know, they speak about life experiences of these things that have happened to them um so i actually knew that the solitude was a blessing it was like okay you've been at the top at. Like, you've done all these things in this life. Whenever do we get the chance to have true solitude unless you're like a monk, right? Be, to be comfortable, truly comfortable with yourself, regardless of what the exterior looks like. I got nothing. I got these four walls, this this little room i'm in this little room for 21 hours of the day three hours to get out shower get a little tv time other than that i'm in my i'm my best friend and i have to be i have to be um seems like i got in there

3:28:42got a little claustrophobic you know sort, started feeling like a mouse in a cage, and told myself, no, you're not doing this. Nope, you can make it comfortable right here, right now. These four walls are keeping you enclosed, but no. Like, what you've just gone through, what you've just learned, all these things you've just learned, you put it into practice right now and i just my outlook on life became so much more more magical like what did you think about in there it was like like i stayed happy within myself. And the guards were like, how can you be happy right now? They would ask you that? Yeah, yeah. How can you be happy right now? Ask them how they can be happy by putting somebody that tried to get justice for a four-year-old

3:29:42being arrested in solitary confinement for nine months, 21 hours a day? They're doing their job, brother. It's a life law, right? It's an earth law, okay? Laws of the United States, laws of California, whatever. They're doing their job. That's it. I can't judge you. I can't. Okay, you're doing what you're supposed to be doing. Cool. I thought of it as, look, you're breathing and you're conscious. Okay, that's all you need. That's it. I don't care if I'm getting tortured at the end of my life. I'm going to appreciate that I get to feel. That's where I had to put myself, to be happy. If I'm being fucking tortured at the end of my life, I'm going to be happy that I get to feel. Because after that, I won't feel anymore.

3:30:38I won't feel that anymore. I'm going to be in a higher state. I love that I get to feel that pain. So that's what made me be happy in that. Be happy with myself. Be happy with yourself that's it you don't need anything else to validate it you don't need anyone else but you you create it all you create your happiness so i did that i did that i was happy man i was happy just i'm still experiencing life. I don't know what's gonna lead. I don't know, but I'm happy that I get to experience it. And I just started like celebrating like little wins, like about the day, like whether it's a meal. Like, oh, I do, I like this meal. Like, yeah, you know, it's fucking, jail food sucks, but it's like, this is a blessing.

3:31:30Sometimes they give me like an extra meal. Oh, wow. Yes. You know? Like, I make a bigger thing than what it was. And one thing, like, I started getting other downloads. Like I started, as I'd wake up and my eyes were so closed, I started getting these geometric shapes, patterns, as if I was on something, but I'm not. I'm just by myself. Meditation, it's like, wow, you're with me. You never left me, ever. It's just me not being able to see you, but I see you and I feel you, always." And then I was looking outside the window, and I love looking at hawks, red-tailed hawks. I love just like, even now, like search for them as I'm driving, I'm like, oh wow. I love the way they fly, their shape and everything. And looking through the window, I saw hawks, like, far away.

3:32:31I'm like, that'd be awesome to see one close up. I would love that. Then a minute later, through the window, big old fucking hawks pass up like this, like, fucking all open, dude. Wow. Like, come on. Like, that, right? Started picking little positivities out. Made them bigger than what they were. It's a state of mind, you know? We're're so like what's the next thing it's the biggest thing what like living in those highs and lows like being in that room for that long a time, when I got to get out and have freedom of, like, leaving my room whenever I wanted to and go to the fridge, like, that's a blessing. That's a blessing that we shouldn't look over. So, yeah, I just saw the little things that we take for granted, man,

3:33:49and saw how beautiful freedom is to be in your car and just go wherever you want. Go see whatever you want. Explore whatever you want. And just appreciate it all for what it is. Make it bigger than what it is. So, did nine months there, got on parole with ankle monitor for about a year and a half, two years. I split up from Michelle. A friend of mine has a place in Gilroy, a pretty big property, like 300 acres. So I got an RV, stayed there, and I put in my parole that I'm working on the property. So one of my jobs is to work on the property, cut down trees, whatever it may be. So I had a free range of 300 acres in nature. So every day for about a year and a half, other than picking up my kids from school,

3:35:07I was able to have a little bit of time at home before I had to leave and go back to where I was living. I go in nature every day. So continue the solitude. Continue being okay with myself, being in nature alone. Being everything taken away, right? Physical things taken away but like this is the only that matters this this only that matters everything can be taken away it's okay it's okay as long as how you feel about it you know you can make it the best thing you can still be in heaven on earth so it was a lot of internal work. Yeah. How was it seeing your son after you got out of there for nine months? It was crazy. It was crazy to, like, at a young age, like, you don't see him for a couple days,

3:36:00and you see how they changed. Yeah, I saw him for the first time, and just saw how he changed, and just, yeah, just what I missed, you know? Like, what I missed, but back home with him, being in their life and all that, yeah, that was, yeah. It's the best, best thing. Like, yeah, things I can't get back, but all I can focus on is the here and now, you know, and try to help them with their longing of missing me as well. You know, those, like, I understand, like, the time that he needed me the most was right after that, and I wasn't there for him for that. I wasn't. So, yeah. And then you went to state prison. Yeah. Instead of trying to fight the trial, the judge we had was pretty good. I felt like he was solid. you know, um, the judge we had is, was pretty good. Like,

3:37:07I felt like he was, he was solid, you know, like, I already done some time for what I did for the circumstances. Um, instead of going to trial, I just gave it up to the judge to make a decision instead of doing the whole shit, you know, like I met up to my mistakes um understood what i did was wrong like i gotta hurt a lot of people you know all that like okay um so he gave me a total of five years which everything else i've done added up for me to do one more year in state prison. So I went to state prison. Yeah. I went to a good place. A place where California normally with prisons it's controlled by gangs but there's some prisons that are that are not the prisons where people that are trying to get out

3:38:17really get out so do their internal work do their schooling they go to there's a couple prisons in the US the u.s in the state that that do that well i went to soledad and that was one of them but i was told okay you know what you're going into right i said what well people that you shot at are the same type of people that are going to be there and you can't do anything if you do you get more charges on your on your record holy right so going into a place like that you're mingled with everybody past gang members past killers um sex offenders child rapist all that right but we're on the road now to better ourselves to understand why we are the way that we are there's all there's a bunch of classes built for everyone everything and

3:39:19okay i said okay well i'm just looking to get out that's it i don't give a like i did what i did like that's where i stand but i had to put in my mind that look when i go to this this place i can't judge them because they've already gone through their process. I can't. My job is to get home now. So when I got there to Soledad, there's two ways of doing this. One, keep my head down. Just do my thing. Don't talk to anybody. Get out. Or I can try to help. I can try to share with myself. I can look past what people have done in the past and know that they're on the road to get back to where they need to get back to. Hopefully they're learning a lesson, but if they haven't, hopefully they get reported again.

3:40:23You know? So I went in, started making friends with people, interacting, you know um so i went in started making friends with people interacting you know sharing on myself and then i started doing uh the breathing there um i started this um ascension breath there yeah i learned ascension breath from putting these different breathing practices together um because after my plant medicine ceremonies people that i talked to about doing these certain medicines they didn't want to do them so i had to learn okay now everybody wants to go down this road of learning in this way and that's okay but what's like what's a good way in the middle something that that isn't plant medicine based so start putting these different practices of breathing together

3:41:17to get people in the same state as if they were doing plant medicine on their own breath so put that together start a program there at the prison and very successful and now i'm in talks with um st quentin prison to do the same breathing there and not just for the inmates but also for the for the for the staff as well so staff is open to doing this. So I just look to share, you know, whatever you get, whatever anybody gets from it to help some good. Like I'm here to help. I'm here to share with myself. Wow, man. You're going back to the same prison, huh? Yeah. Did it help out? Yeah. It's already going on. They've continued since my absence. It's still going on. This is ascension breathing? Yeah.

3:42:21Ascension breath. Yeah, ascension breath. So they do it three times a week, and every month they do like a day of healing that we started. We started a day of healing there, like where it's a whole day, yoga, breathing, we do sound healing as well, come in. So we'll do a whole day of it. We'll do Reiki, like'll do a whole day of it. We'll do Reiki. Like, they do a whole day of it. Just help somebody out, you know? Help release their traumas, get better understanding, help them get in tune to themselves a lot more. With the breathing, it gives you what you need every time. Not what you want, it gives you what you need. So you may have to relive certain things that aren't so pleasant, but with reliving them and that state of mind, you can put it to rest.

3:43:19Understand it wasn't your fault. It's okay. It was a learned thing that you learned from somebody else. I put it on to you. And now the choice is, okay, do I want to carry that with me and keep continuing or do I not? So being able to do this with some police departments. I went to the UFC PI. Did a session there with some of the fighters. Just letting the breathing speak for itself. People see that it's beneficial in some way, then it'll keep growing. But I'm just helping out anywhere that I can. So breathing, working with plant medicine also. I don't know which way. I know what I get out of it. I don't know if it's being a facilitator, doing shaman work. I don't know. But I know what it does for me, and I know that all it is is teach me.

3:44:30I got to do the work here. So it's not for me to go back to it always, constantly do medicine. That's not it. It's live a little bit. Live. Incorporate it into your everyday life. Incorporate the love. Incorporate it into your everyday life. Incorporate the love. Incorporate that essence. Incorporate being true to yourself. Incorporate those boundaries that you learned more. Keep those boundaries up. See darkness, you know? If you can do something about it in that moment, do it. If you can speak out, speak out. So sharing with the collective in the best way that I know how, showing of myself and trying to show more of who I am within. Being authentic. Being authentic. Wow. Wow. How's your son doing today?

3:45:41Amazing. Amazing. He has amazing people around him. I see him as the hero in the story, him speaking up. So, you know, the time that it happened and it was happening to the time that he spoke up and him putting a stop to that situation and making a big impact on the world in that way. And the things that I did as well, but like, I see great things in him and it's like he's done something already so great how many kids do you think you saved as a four year old it all depends on how long it would have kept how long the a lot of kids yeah from how long they've been established as a daycare to how long they would have been you can stop to it there I mean they don't have a daycare anymore but again there's

3:47:01people that are into that thing so it still happens right it's still in the community still is um but i'm happy that he yeah that he that he had the strength to say something and that we took the right precautions you know calling the authorities and all that um because i've heard so many stories afterwards that people open it up to me about that happened to them as a kid telling their parents and their parents just taking them out of the situation but not doing anything about it not like call the authorities or anything else like that. So them living through this life of resentment of their parents that they didn't put a stop to it, you know, or even, even to somewhere like they told their parents and they didn't

3:48:01even do anything about it. It's crazy to me. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, I didn't know all this before, but now I have more information from life experience through it to realize how important it is to protect your children. I'm not saying just by doing something. No, no, I'm saying by doing what's right and, like, the eyes of the law. Doing that, like, does so much. You know, just doing that, reporting it, speaking about it. Like, that's the only way it's going to, like, stop and people are gonna get held accountable for their actions is that not by hiding it away not by being embarrassed you know that keeps everybody safe keeps everybody doing it like keeps everybody safe that shouldn't be safe

3:49:00that should be held accountable so we have to talk about these things has to be open we have to learn and teach from each other and do the right things because like that'd be the worst man like I thought of that too like damn if I if my son later on in life would tell me like you didn't do anything like that would have killed me you know like if he just told me that son later on in life would tell me, like, you didn't do anything, like, that would've killed me, you know? Like, if he just told me that, man, that would've fucking killed, you know? Like, dude, I'm your dad, dude. Like, I love you more than anything. I love my kids more than anything. So, to have them say that to me, that would've

3:49:45fucking, like, how much trust is gone from a parent to a child? You know? Like, I love you, I say all these things, I love you, and I'm here for you, but I won't do this for you. You know? I won't do anything for you when you you really need me so like how how deep is our love for reals so i and that's just the way i work i have to dissect all of it put her in its place the good the bad like i can't even say i wish he's never gone there, because if he didn't, then my son didn't go to where he went. This would continuously go on, right? There had to be somebody to stop it. So I can't even, I can't, I can never say to myself, I wish he's never gone. I can't say that, right? So I had to, like, accept, how can I accept it?

3:50:46Well, he went, yes yes he got hurt really hurt emotionally hurt forever but it stopped to it yes he did and he has a foundation around him that's going to help him um you know even even like my daughter went through it with like seeing it all you know so she went through all of that like so I really have to dissect all of it in order to not keep this anger resentment towards these people because I don't need that for me if I'm holding on to all these things that I shouldn't be holding on to, well, how am I going to get more understanding if I'm holding on to all these things? I need to let those things go that don't suit me anymore. They didn't do nothing for me. They do nothing but keep me in a place of darkness,

3:51:45of doubt, of hurt hurt let that go because i don't want that but i understand it let it go and i learn from it i move on they're going to get what they need to get just like we are whether they get it in this life law, they're going to get it from a higher place. God will teach them. So it's all good. It's okay. We're just teaching each other. So I really have to do that to let go of things. Really go into it, dive into it, dive into the hurt, let it flow through me. So I'm not holding on you're a great dad thank you brother my pleasure man seriously it's an honor man likewise brother likewise cheers thank you brother man. Likewise, brother. Likewise. Cheers. Thank you. No matter where you're watching the Sean Ryan show from, if you get anything out of this at all, anything, please like, comment, and subscribe.

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