Arsenal’s Defensive Masterclass, Martinez Madness & Brighton For The Champions League

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2:13Dang, that's a good offer. The highest form of approval. No haggling, no hassle. No one called him boss. He's still on the couch. Astonishing. Sell your car today on Carvana.com. Pickup fees may apply. Hello and welcome to the Rest is Football. Arsenal move to the top of the Premier League after another 1-0 victory, this time over Liverpool at Anfield. That's another clean sheet and another example of just how difficult they are to break down. Alan, if Arsenal are going to go one better and win the back-to-back Premier League titles this season, surely their defence will be their foundation. What makes them so good at the back and so difficult to score against? Well, including the goalkeeper,

3:07they've got an unbelievable back five, but it's not just that back five that are brilliant. The protection they get. I spoke to Declan Rice after the game yesterday and I asked him about that. How much work goes into working as a unit and also working as a midfield and the protection that you give them. You see him and what he does, what the midfielders do also, when one, they're stopping balls going into the forwards. Two, they're stopping anything that gets in there. But when you're just going to all of a sudden throw crosses into the box, that's food and drink for Arsenal's back four. They're so strong. They're so powerful in the air. They get the line of the cross very, very early. And that's a skill in itself.

3:50So you're not going to beat them on your own. You have to perform as a team and you have to do things as a team because one person is not going to do it specifically. And I guess that has been such a strength of Arsenal's now for such a long time. I mean, we all know that if you keep clean sheets like they do, then you are going to get chances throughout the year, throughout the game. That's what Arsenal do. For me, there's no doubt that they are the best back five, six in world football. So difficult to play against, so tough, so hard, physical, and can play as well. But don't you think it's as well, Al, it's the appetite that we've got for it. They enjoy it. They actually enjoy defending.

4:33It's so strange to see. I was doing the game yesterday. I saw you at the ground, didn't you? Yeah. You was working for another broadcaster. I just love, you know, there's an art to defending. And I know the modern day fullback and defenders want to step out and build up, and I get all that sort of stuff. But they absolutely enjoy defending, which is just amazing to see. Seeing the way they step up together, the way they drop together, the organization. And I think what's even more brilliant to see is the fact that Konza's come straight into the squad and been so good. I thought with Saliba being missing and then even Hinkapi last season was very good. But Calafiori's pretty much nailed that left back spot now.

5:18Timber, outstanding again. But you cannot forget about Ben White. Every time Ben White comes into the squad, he had a little bit of a wobble. I remember last season in the FA Cup and I thought, ooh. But then ever since then, he's been fantastic. So it's not just essentially the four at the back, it's their subs too who buy into exactly what the manager wants to do. And if they keep performing like that defensively, then they'll win the Premier League again. I suppose the thing you have to bear in mind here, Micah, is it take an absolute fool to leave out a couple of the Arsenal defenders and put them on their bench for fantasy, wouldn't it? You know what? I'm done. I know what's coming. I'm done.

5:59You know what? I'm sick. I'm sick to death. Right. I said last week, do you know what I'm going to say? It had Calafiori 50% again or 75%. And I'm thinking, has he got a knock that I don't know about? So I thought, let me just put, I took a gamble. I played my wild card and Isak looked good. His movement was there, but I kept it right here. I thought, you know, let me give myself a little bit of a, what's the word I'm looking for? Some glimmer of hope. Yes, a little bit of a glimmer. Just a little bit of a glimmer. I thought, you know what? Just in case. A bit of a safety net. The safety net I was looking for. Rea. And then I took out Calafiori and I took out Konza. And they got 18 points, guys.

6:4618 points on my bench. I'm done with the game. I've had enough. I'm retiring. I just got a note from Haz saying, Mike, you need to watch the press conferences where he was declared fit, Calafiori. It was too late. I was doing other things. I can't watch everything. I'm watching football. I watch 10 games aore, so. It was too late. I was doing other things. I can't watch everything. I'm watching football. I watch 10 games a week, guys. At least 10 games on Wisecard. I'm watching them. I ain't got time to do press conferences. I take my information from Premier League. I check it Saturday morning. Is everyone fit? And it said, oh, there's a problem with Calafiore. Don't take the risk. I take him out.

7:26And then he goes and gets the points. I've had enough. I'm done. I'm done. Let me ask you, because I guess in terms of being a forward, you've seen and played against some brilliant back fours. I mean, we go back to Arsenal, Adams, Ball, Dixon, Winterburn, Seaman, the Invincibles, Chelsea, when they had those, what, 25ixon, Winterburn, Seaman, the Invincibles, Chelsea, when they had those, what, 25 clean sheets in that season, the best ever, wasn't it? 15 goals they conceded. How does this Arsenal, and I know they shift around and I know they change players, but in terms of ability-wise, what do you think? Chelsea did it for a few years, didn't they? I mean, they were so good defensively. I think generally it's the two central defenders

8:09are the ones that they very rarely change. It's very difficult to compare different eras, but I suppose nowadays there are bigger squads and more rotation. There wouldn't have been much of that back. It was pretty much a very consistent back four. Yeah. But this one, if they keep going, I mean, the interesting question for me here is what is Arsenal's best back four now? Because Saliba's been out obviously all this season. Does he get back in? Because I think Consa's been absolutely outstanding. And he's obviously new to this back four. So maybe in a year or two's time, they might have a different back four that we can compare to the one that obviously had Saliba in it. And does he get straight back in?

8:51I suspect not until someone at the back starts making a few mistakes, and they don't seem to make many mistakes. But I don't know. Which one do you think, Al? Carvalho and John Terry was pretty strong. Yeah I mean Terry and Carvalho would take some beating but I tell you what those two yesterday, Konca and Gabriel, they're solid, they're tough, they're aggressive aren't they? I mean do you know I was sat like three or four yards from where Mikey was sat and I was just next to Arteta and how all their staff are at them to be as aggressive and as quick. It was brilliant to see again because you don't sit there very often. You might forget how aggressive it is actually on the touchline, how quick they are.

9:36And it was those two at the back for Arsenal, they take some getting by, those two. I just thought they were fantastic. Just to add to that, though, I don't think you can compare. And I think if you have to compare, I think you've got to go with Chelsea. Look at the strikers back then that Chelsea had to face. So, yes, the game's moved on and we love the modern game, but look at the strikers back then and especially 4-4-2 yeah like what what they had to deal with if you look at what Arsenal had to deal with yesterday you got Isak really you got Barcola who's who's coming into it and he'll get there at some point but it's not too upfront where you're having to deal with the physical presence

10:23everyone talks about systems and styles of play. But back then, I remember when I first broke in at Man City and I had people like Jason Roberts to contend. It was just, it was a beast. John Carew, those sort of players where, yes, they might not have the ability going forward of what the players have now, but that physical presence was different back then. And that's what the Chelsea boys in that era had to deal with. So I would say physically, for sure, I think that Chelsea defence had it a little bit harder. 15 goals conceded that Chelsea defence. Unbelievable, 15! 38 goals, 15 all all season let me ask you one question as a defender is it easier to play against two up top like it used to be so let's

11:16say a 4-4-2 where you've got two cyclers and they try and run in the channels and some go one goes short one goes long or is it more difficult now where you've just got one central striker and two wide players that are not quite wingers, but they're not quite central strikers that drift in, say like Mo Salah, but there are three altogether rather than two. What's the more difficult for a defender? It's a very good question, guys. In Arsenal's system, I would say it's easy to play now. So playing against a free because they're really tucked in. But back then, I think playing against, if your team wants to play on a front four and essentially you're man versus man in a 4-4-2. I think it's harder to play against that

12:08because you get more isolated. But the way Arsenal play, everyone's tucked in. Timber's in. Calafiori's in on the ball. And then you've got Rice and Bruno. And even Odegaard drops in. But not only that, you've got Medweke when he played. And Zolli's tucked in really as well. So you're not really getting the opportunity if it was Mane, Salah and Firmino now that would be difficult to play against because of the movement so what happened with that you wouldn't know really what to do because Firmino used to take defenders away and then Mane used to come into that space so that would be difficult. But in terms of, I think it all depends on the system, guys, I think equally can be as hard, but I feel it depends what the manager wants.

12:54So in Arsenal's side and right now, it'd be easier to play because you're getting more protection, I think. I've got a list of strikers from that era of 2004, 2005, prime Mourinho, prime Chelsea's defence. I've got a list of strikers from that era of 2004, 2005. Prime Mourinho, Prime Chelsea's defence. People like Thierry Henry, Andy Johnson, Jimmy Floyd, Jermaine Defoe, Heidegger Johnson, Chelsea again. Peter Crouch, Andy Cole, Yakubu, Robbie Keane, Robbie Fowler, Wayne Rooney. This is what I mean. Look at the depth. Tim Cahill. Come on. Come on, guys. Sean Wright Phillips. Emil Heskey was still around then. Big Heskey. Any danger chucking my name in there? Were you still going then, Al? Come on, lads.

13:38Fucking hell. Were you still going in 2004-05? Yeah, I retired in 2006. I mean, I was on my last legs, but I'm still getting 50 and 20 a season. I mean, come on. Fair point, Al. Micah says 50 or 20 this season is a world beer. We'll get to that. Don't you worry about that. We'll get to that. We will get to that. We've got plenty of time for that. Micah, Consor or Saliba? Oh. No, I would still say Saliba don't let's not forget Saliba won the title last season and got to the Champions League final last season and it was consistent I think I said last year he was the best defender in Europe so as it stands because of what they've done you have to go off the evidence that would say Saliba right now,

14:27but Konza. Brilliant piece of business. And I remember JT called it early. He said, if Saliba gets an injury or when he was out injured, I don't think Saliba will get back in because Konza's that good. And obviously it was with Matt Villa and he's coached him and all that sort of thing. And I thought, ooh, if JT's saying that, it must have a little bit of substance. And I thought, I wouldn't say I didn't agree with it. I thought, let me see. But he's been proven right at the moment because he's been that good. I think Konca is probably ultimately a better defender. I think, no, I think Saliba's got the odd mistake in him. Okay, that's probably fair. That's fair, Yeah, that's fair. And Konca,

15:10I've not really seen that yet. I mean, everyone's got a mistake in them, but you know what I mean? So he probably makes fewer mistakes, but he's only been, you know, but he was brilliant in the World Cup, Konca, and Konca can also switch to right back as well if needed for Arsenal, but they've got plenty. Not anymore now. Timber's there. Timber's back. Not anymore. Yeah. Although they had a lot of space down the left-hand side, Liverpool, in the first half. I mean, he adjusted that at half-time. Barkley was causing a lot of trouble down the left. Got the crew crosses in. Did you see that tactic that they was doing though? It was really interesting. I did it a little bit on Match of the Day last night,

15:49but we didn't have it in depth because we didn't have that much time to do it. But they was purposely trying to do that. You see, Neone was sort of going into a back three. So Madweki didn't really know what to do, which one to press. And in the first half, he got caught out so which one to press. And in the first half, he got caught out so many times. And once earlier in the second half where he was sort of following Neoni and then Barcola got loads of space and then he should see on the sideline. You know, actually being on the bench, because I was sat... Must have reminded you of your playing career, Martin. Very, very good. The information, and I won't tell you the information that the guys were saying

16:31because I feel like it's private. I feel like I was privy to information that I shouldn't really know or should be hearing. But what I would say is it was interesting to see Areola when things were working and things wasn't happening and he was constantly saying to Kyrkos go hurry go go and he's almost like we've got a tactic there's so much space we've left Barcola 1v1 so him to drive inside for you to take the outside and cross it in and there was a couple of occasions in the first half where it happened really well. But it's almost like Kirke has lost a bit of confidence. And I know he's not played well this season and he's been fantastic for Bournemouth in the past, but it's almost like they had to keep telling him how good he was

17:19because he'd lost a bit of confidence, which was a little bit strange to see, really, because someone who's so good on the ball going forward needed the manager to keep, you know, telling him and sort of, I don't know, having to give him confidence, which was strange. Micah, just before we get on to Liverpool, did you, I don't know whether, did you find the fourth official as annoying as I did? Mate, one thing. Get out of my way. I can't see the game. That's one. I can't see the game. Why are you stood there? And his attitude and his behaviour towards the both benches when someone stood up. I mean, he spent... Please, can you sit down? He thought he was a fucking headmaster. He's like, I was like, honestly, mate, pipe down, you're a fourth official.

18:14All he was doing, he was looking right, looking right, and looking left and was just like, sit down, sit down. I was just like, what is going on here? This is all pointless. Like, he's a good fourth official as well. I know the guy. But I just feel so... Hang on a minute, Mike. Hang on. You just said the words, he's a good fourth official. He is. What does a fourth official do apart from tell the man he's nothing? He's a good referee. And he's a good linesman. That's what I meant. But his job there, I don't understand what he's doing. All he's there for is to take abuse. So I was talking about what he's saying. I think he almost was quite performative. Like he has to do that. Because otherwise he's just going to get hammered.

18:57It's the most ridiculous job ever. Every, this side to my right, Iriola and my old mate, Tommy Ulfric was on the bench he's one of the coaches and every two minutes it's going up to him and then the other side Arteta's waving his hands I'm just like what is going on here oh no I was the same while we're on the officials ESAC penalty all day yeah it was a penalty seriously I knew I knew the line they were going to come out with straight away because I said it. I said, they're going to come out and say at half-time it wasn't sustained holding. Honestly, which... Is that in the rules? Well, yeah, sustained holding. How long is sustained? That's what I said. What does it matter whether someone pulls a shirt

19:39for one second or five seconds? If Isak, like he was, millimetres off heading that ball, one tugging him has to alter his stride. Therefore, he's cost the McGill scorer an opportunity. And the reason Timber pulls his shirt forward is because he's out of position and he knows he's done. Yeah. So he had to stop him. And he did. Clearly, I mean, the other two were not penalties, but that one, it has to be a pull on his shirt. Come on. Gaz, you're the smart one. Explain to us sustained holding. Me? Yes, because you're very articulate. Well, I think sustained means that you hold on to the shirt for at least 25 minutes. So on this occasion, it was just like two seconds. One, two. So it was 23 minutes and short.

20:27This is why I've always said it can't work in its present form, BAR, because they have to judge what's enough. Is it sustained long enough as a hold to justify a return? Yeah, but that's rubbish, isn't it? I mean, it's nonsense. It's either a foul or it's not a foul. And then is it serious enough to turn over? It's unworkable because sometimes it's a clear and obvious error. This is the issue with referees making the rules or the laws. Referees are deciding these nonsense. Come on. It's a pull of a shirt. It doesn't matter whether it's a second or five. You stopped him from getting to the ball. Clear pull. Penalty. Simple. Totally agree. As a striker, Al, you know when you're playing against the best defences, you stopped him from getting to the ball clear pull penalty simple totally agree

21:05as a striker Al you know when you're playing against the best defences do you do anything differently or I mean I used to say it's important the service is really good in those circumstances you've got to get onto your wingers to get the ball in early so you can make your runs and then keep making your runs against the better defenders. But it's not all down to you. And that's why sometimes people, you know, they'll go, well, Erling Haaland, you know, he didn't really get any touches in the game. Because basically he's trying to wait for the moment to make his runs in the area. So you are reliant as a striker on people getting the ball in the box. Liverpool had a lot of crosses, particularly in the first half, almost 20.

21:49It was in the late teens. And there was not a lot of movement in the box. The one time there was, Isak gets in front of me, gets his shirt pulled back. But there were a lot of really good deliveries in there, which the Liverpool players didn't get on the end of, aside from McAllister's header, which you wouldn't have wanted it to fall to anyone else because he's so good normally in those positions and under those circumstances. But you are reliant as a striker. What you've got to do is, if you're not getting much of a look and you've got to persist. Yeah. I think that's the importance. Persist in making your runs, persist in making your runs and eventually a ball will come in. Which is hard when you're not,

22:28when the balls are not coming in or where you want them to come in. I thought the Arsenal defence dealt with the ball. They were much better, the Arsenal defence, particularly second half than Liverpool's forwards. I was really disappointed in Liverpool's forwards actually because considering what they've paid, considering the ability and thinking, come on, all right, you're up against a brilliant defence, but there's a reason why they paid over 100 million for you guys. I thought Virts was poor again. I'd be struggled physically. What's going on there, guys? Obviously, Barcola's a good player. We wouldn't say, at least say, or let me mean the dream. But in terms of how they want to play and what you would want now with essentially a 4-2-3-1,

23:13you know, you've got Gakpo played on the right, which is always a little bit different because he normally plays on the left. But what do you want to see more from these guys? Are they still learning off each other? Is it because the manager wants them to press high? How do you get the best out from these guys? Are they still learning off each other? Is it because the manager wants them to press high? How do you get the best out of these forwards? Well, I thought there were signs of improvement before yesterday's game. I thought they were just starting the one or two little things that you could notice, little flicks and tricks and understanding of each other's game. I was thinking, OK, that's fine. Let's see what

23:42you've got against the big boys, the best defence. And I wasn't impressed with any of it, to be honest. I mean, yeah, McAllister had that absolute sitter. But other than that, they huffed and puffed and they never got any joy, really. As I said, I think Wurz is really struggling physically. And with the pace of the Premier League, Isak, there wasn't a lot from him. And also Barcola, I think, come on, it's like a lot of the time I'm thinking you're moving the ball and perhaps crossing it may be the easy way out. When someone's as mean as Arsenal are, you're looking for a bit of magic. That's why you pay the big money for one of them to undo that lock, you know, for one of them to produce that piece of brilliance that you're waiting for.

24:22There wasn't any of that, I didn't think, from Liverpool yesterday, particularly second half. Can I just ask you guys quickly on Verts? Because I think you didn't go over the top like I did at the start, because I've obviously watched him from a young age and his talent is just remarkable. But why is it not working? Physicality and the pace of the game, I think. No, but I always thought, Al, that his brain and his touch was quick enough to play in the Premier League, you know? So I don't understand it. And like you talk about the big players and I'm just thinking, when's Vert's going to have his big moment, you know, in a big game and be decisive and he just, thinking when's Vert's going to have his big moment you know in a big game

25:05and be decisive and he just he's just waiting for it to come and it's just it's just not arriving you know Agreed Agreed Yes I said it before the game yesterday I said right we have seen the odd bits of brilliance from him there's no doubt about it he's got incredible skill but he has to do it on a more regular basis and he has to do it on a more regular basis and he has to do it in the games like that, like yesterday. I've watched him a lot now, as all of us have. I think obviously it's probably slightly tougher than Bundesliga, who's playing a very good team at the time. And I think the Bundesliga is a very strong league and there's some great teams in there, obviously. But I don't think you come across strong teams every week

25:48like you do in the Premier League. There's much greater depth in the Premier League. And I think trying to assess it, it is slightly baffling because he was superb in that. And we all expected great things of him, as did Liverpool, as did probably himself. But I think the mind plays games with you as well. And mental strength for me is just as important as ability technically. You've got to have both. I don't know his mind, but is his confidence drained a bit? We know important confidence is. It's now over a season. So I just cut him some slack weight for the second season. With some players, they just ultimately, for some reason, don't go on and improve. I mean, he might be like that. It might be the style of our football.

26:39It might be the physicality. It's really hard to know unless you know someone really well, you know, his personality, his character, whether he's strong enough mentally. But, you know, technically he's generally very good, but he's not really making a huge difference to Liverpool. So it's a slightly baft in one. I'm with you, Michael. I thought it was going to be an absolute revelation in the Premier League and it surprised me. It's football. You never know with players. They can go suddenly off the boil and then sometimes they can come back and sometimes they don't. Now, I wish him well and I hope he finds that success. But the longer this run without providing decent numbers, both in terms of

27:24assists and goals and overall play, the harder it will be for him. I worry for him a bit. They've spent a lot of money on him as well, whether that's weighed on his shoulders. I don't know whether players actually really do think about that when they've been transferred. Again, I come back to the mental strength side of things. And ultimately, that's a very powerful thing in your mind. He's just got to be careful. I think you raise a good point in terms of you've got to be in the right place mentally. And maybe he's knocked a little bit of confidence out of him, not playing really well. But he's not doing the things he's supposed to be good at. That's what's worrying me. In the game where, okay, if you're

28:07a playmaker or someone who can keep the ball ticking over, but he's making the wrong decisions even with that. So the ball came to him in the game once and you're thinking, just turn out. And we're talking about a simple ball or whatever, but he's giving the ball away. And I'm just thinking, what's happened to Wurz? And it's even harder now because the manager wants a team that can press. He likes Nioni, as you've seen. Obviously, Gravenberch was on the bench. He likes McAllister. He's been good this season. But at some point, Gravenberch will come back into the team. But he's also going to bring Sabozlai. So if you're looking to be a high- the team, but he's also going to bring Sabozlai. So if you're looking to be a high energy team,

28:48then he's probably going to end up on the bench because Sabozlai will probably play in the number 10, which then becomes a little bit worrying. So I'm not writing him off just yet. Not yet, but he needs to improve massively right now. I know I would say also, I mean, I know you were very critical of Liverpool's performance, Alan, particularly. I thought in the first half that looked a bit more like a roller side. I think the energy inside of things was really good. They got a lot of crosses in and under normal circumstances, you know, you'd score from one or two of those, even against a side as good as Arsenal. So I actually thought in that there was a bit more to that performance than I've seen perhaps in previous performances this season.

29:35I just, he's brought back the high energy, high octane football, perhaps that Klopp did. Don't forget, it took Klopp a while as well, although he didn't have the players when he first took over. So I think it's worth being patient with Iriola because you could see something. I think they probably ran out of steam after about an hour and made changes. I look at their squad. I think it's pretty good overall, even though one or two of the big name signings haven't worked yet. Burt's been one of them, but there comes a point when you've got that kind of squad depth where you're just going to have to say, well, you might have cost 130 million or something, but I'm, I'm sorry, this kid on Gamow is quite good.

30:19Yeah. And he's getting game. I was very impressed with Neone. You just mentioned him. I thought he's, he's got a little bit of, and maybe again, we've got a Spanish coach at Liverpool. He's got a bit of that kind of Spanish-y holding a little bit. A little bit of a pivot kind of player that we don't generally produce. Control, control, isn't it? I've got these stats here are pretty impressive, Micah. He completed 96% of his passes in today's match. I know that can be misleading sometimes with a lot of side balls. Still got to do it. He's still got to do it. Still got to keep it. 53 out of 55 complete. The highest against an Arsenal side since Fabinho in November 2021. So very encouraging, I think, signs for a young player.

31:01What was he, 19? Yeah, I do like him. I like his spatial awareness. I like his calmness. I like the way tactically, when the managers want him to go into a back three, that's probably where a lot of his passes came from in terms of the 90%, but he's picking the right pass. But also not that, he was told to press as well. So one minute he was going into the back line, into that three. And then when the ball went to a Kierkegaard or a Barcola, he was having to get right up and press. So it looks like he's got that energy, but it's nice to see a different type of player. You know, when we talked about Rio, yes, he's tricky, he can run in behind, he entertains, but it's nice to see a young player playing with his mind as well and a little bit of control. So I totally

31:50agree with you guys. I think Liverpool, a bit inconsistent. One week, I think they're very good. Next, it's up. And I think it'll be like the season, but I think Liverpool will be finishing 4th, 5th or 6th. I think that's where they are. And yeah, there are signs that he's getting to get them to do what he wants to do. But yeah, I think they'll be fourth, fifth or sixth. Okay, let's take a little breather there. We'll be back very shortly. This episode is brought to you by Hotels.com. You know what's better than getting a good win? Getting another one straight after it. With the all new 10 for £100 benefit from Hotels.com, members that stay 10 eligible nights can get £100 back in Hotels.com cash to use on a future booking.

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33:43And the person who drives it, Well, that's a Chevy person. You probably know one, your buddy, your sister, ones who always show up to the first to rise the last to leave. They always have that little extra something and maybe you've got it too. Chevrolet together. Let's drive. Visit Chevy.com slash trucks to explore the lineup. Welcome back to The Rest Is Football with Alan Shearer, Michael Richards and me, Gary Lineker. Let's turn our attention, well, Manchester United again. I mean, I think we've said a lot about Manchester United. And once again, there's a bit of controversy with Martinez and as he got his second yellow card, giving away a penalty, as he walked off the pitch, there was a very deliberate effort on Michael Carrick's behalf

34:36not to look at him at all. So problems continue for Manchester United, even though I actually thought they played quite well in the first half. Not quite well. They were excellent, Gaz, weren't they? Don't you think it was a really good combination? I only said quite good because it's a very important part of football. To make it very good, you have to finish the chances that come along. But yes, Micah, tactically, energy, everything. What do we say a game of two halves if we say that the first half they were excellent by the the finish and that would have been what would we use exceptional if we would have had a couple of them finishes with Diyala Ahmad wouldn't we but yes I would agree with you

35:20I thought Man United you know when you're looking at performances and you're going through a bad time and you're like, you're trying to pick the positives out of the game and you're like, there's not many there, there's not many. Actually, if you look at the first half, there should have been two, maybe even three, or maybe three. I'm mad, Mr. Fuse, you said, and Bruno missed a really good chance. Not that he'd normally put away. Yeah, so you have to give him a little bit of credit, but then it is a 90-minute game, isn't it? And then it sort of all went downhill in the second half. And I feel a little bit sorry for Martinez. I do. Why? No, I do, because he came out. Really? Hear me out. He came out and he tried to give an honest assessment of what was going on.

36:09Are you talking a few weeks ago when he... A few weeks ago when we're talking about he wanted more players and the behind the scenes have got to take a little bit more responsibility. And I think that takes balls to do that. I didn't really see the angle where he was saying it was against his teammates. I don't think it was against his teammates. I just think he was saying we need more numbers to build on last season. And I think we all agree with that. Yeah, but it was sort of, a lot of people was going the angle where he's throwing his teammates under the bus. And I get that, but I didn't think that was the case. But then it comes out and then you're the one who talk. where he's throwing his teammates under the bus. And I get that, but I didn't think that was the case.

36:45But then it comes out and then you're the one who talk, but if you talk, you've got to play well. And unfortunately, he come off on one of the games at halftime and then he goes and gets sent off again. It's almost like you tried to do the right thing. You tried to back your team, but unfortunately, you're the problem at the moment because you're not playing well enough. And when he's fit, he's probably Man United's best centre-half. So I feel sorry for the fact that he's tried to, you know, come out there and put his chest out and say, yes, I'm with him. I'm ready for the fight. I want to talk. I'm frustrated. We talk about interviews and players not giving anything. He was emotional. He cares.

37:29I liked a bit of that. This is a World Cup winner, by the way. And he tried to stand up for his teammates. But ultimately, on the pitch, the last couple of games, he's not been good enough. So that's why I feel sorry for him. Not in terms of his performance. The last couple of games? All last couple of games. I just feel as though... You've not been watching Man United all season, no? No, but him. When he's fit, Martinez, and that's one of the problems as well, he's not been fit enough. When he's fit, they are a better side with him in it. It's just this season, he's not been that great. Is that fair? I don't know how you can protect him and feel sorry for him after what he's done. You know, the manager

38:10is about to lose his job. The club is in turmoil. The noise around them is as loud as it has been for years. And he thinks it's a good idea to get a yellow card and then do that on the pitch. I mean, Michael must be thinking, what the hell? I mean, come on, you're an experienced centre-half. I need everyone together to deal, lads. I need all my experience. I need everyone pulling in the same direction. Yeah, Martinez thinks it was a good idea to go and dive in like that and get another yellow card and give a penalty away. I mean, I'm going to go from a slightly different angle. I don't think it was like anything deliberate, even though it looked it. I think what's happened there, he's had a moment of panic

38:54because he's lost his man. He's lost his man and he's going, where is he? And there he is. And from that point in, he didn't look at the ball at all. And as the ball comes over, he's running towards him. He's just obviously just trying to block him off, which we see from every corner, every time, forever. But he went in with, I don't think he deliberately went to try and do him with his arm. I think he's just gone in there, his arms lifted up and he's blocked him. I don't think he deliberately gone out of his way to foul him on purpose. I just think he's got himself in a bad position and he's had a moment of panic. But either way, it's very bad defending. I don't think you can say, well, he deliberately did that

39:32because 99 times out of 100, there's blocks and pulls and pushes and shoves in the penalty box at corners anyway. So, but, you know, the big question, everyone's saying, well, he's letting Michael Carrick down. He should, people even talking about getting him out of the club. Now, you know, young footballers make mistakes. We all do. We've all done it. He's had a howler there. And I think there's, for me, there's a slight overreaction. Yes, I think he completely fucked up and he knows that. But was there anything beyond it? Anything deliberate? Intentional? I don't think so. If it was a youngster you'd perhaps understand more but he's a World Cup winner. He's got incredible experience. He knows the pressure

40:18the club are under and the managers are under. All footballers are youngsters. Yeah, I wish. Compare with us. Very true. But no, it was a moment of madness and cost of managing. It was. That's exactly what I think it was. It was just a moment of, he just lost control slightly. But, you know, did he do it deliberately to fuck Michael Karrikova? Of course not. Yeah, but I do agree with Al in terms of your experience, World Cup winner. He shouldn't even really be in that position. He should be the one organising, shouldn't he? So I get it from the football point of view. And when you're going through a difficult time, you want your big characters to step up, don't you? Yeah, I agree, totally agree.

40:58And he didn't step up. So I understand the frustration of Man United fans because you're going through this little spell and you're thinking, yes, you've got someone who's got so much heart and he, what they call him the butcher, don't they? Because he's just, when he's on it, he's really on it. But he just, yeah, it was mistimed, wasn't it? Ill discipline at the moment in terms of his performances but I agree with you guys he sort of missed his man he didn't mean to do it he'd once switched on and he's let his team down which builds more pressure on Carrick essentially I'm doing the game tomorrow night Man United Roma core commentary is that United is it better be because I haven't booked my flight to Rome so better be at Man United Roma, um, core commentator. Is that, is that United, is it?

41:45Well, it better be, because I haven't booked my flight to Rome, so it better be at Man United. Alan, Alan, are Man United in a relegation battle? Yeah. Come on, Alan, stop your nonsense. They're fourth bottom, how can you not say that? Let me get the table up, because I'm sick to death. You're getting all excited, because you've seen a good 45 minutes because you've seen a good 45 minutes and you think, oh, here we go. You're reactionary. Look, it's the same with Coventry. What is Coventry? Coventry, they're down. They're down after two games. Look at Coventry now. Coventry ahead of Man United. Micah, you've just accused Alan of being reactionary. You just left two Arsenal defenders out of your fantasy team.

42:26I mean, you can't get any more reactionary than that. I'm reactionary. I'm reacting to nine games that I've witnessed this season and saying, yeah, they are. They've been that bad. Okay, no, what I would say, and my point was, look, there might be flirting. When I say there could be five points from 10th all the way down to 17th at the end of this you you know that it could be tight but united got seven points in all the way up until 10th it's 11 points there's only four points in it so that's why i don't believe they're in a relegation battle. They've got enough quality. How many points are off the bottom? Well, the two points off the bottom. Hey, you always look up, Gaz. You always look up.

43:12Yeah, you always look up. Yeah, that's a very good point. You're half empty, you're half full. What about Chelsea? I'm really impressed with Esteban. He's been patient. He's had to wait for his opportunity this season. And he's certainly given Xabi Alonso a nice problem. How does he play? He's got a lot of talent in forward positions. Obviously, he's sort of persisting with a false nine at present rather than, I mean, I know he played in midweek in the Carabao, but rather than play Welbeck. But, you know, they came back and they were much better in the second half. Brilliant goal from Rodgers as well. He was brilliant, Esteban. I thought he was outstanding. Yeah, and he has. I mean, when Pedro's back in,

43:53he's got some job in terms of trying to get ahead of those three and where does he play him? But talent-wise, ability-wise, he's brilliant, isn't he? He's so exciting with the ball. Football's such a strange thing, isn't it? Because if Man Utd take them chances, two or three in the first half, then we're talking about something completely different. But they're stuck in there and they've got the quality to hurt you. When Cole Palmer's at it, when Rodgers is at it, when Estabal's at it, they're always going to score goals. I think for Chelsea now, even though they've got a clean sheet, Man Utd have got a man sent off, they need to be more stable at the back. They look a little bit too easy still

44:32to play against. That's my one. Because again, talking about reactionary over there, Alan, they're fighting for the league. Chelsea, they are challengers for the league, is what you said after pod number three of the season. And now, look, they can'ters for the league, is what he said after pod number three of the season. And now, look, they can't defend. Come on, just have a little bit of balance, guys. Don't go too early, is all I'm saying. Here's a question. What about the standard of the league this year? I mean, last year I thought it was pretty poor. What about this year? I thought it started very well. But I just, I'm not, some games, I'm not sure. I think it's so tactical now where at times it become very boring.

45:14But for me as a defender, watching Arsenal, I absolutely love it because I'm looking at the positions and the spaces and all that sort of stuff, the art of defending. But some games can be quite boring. Did you see the comments? Was it Roberto Baggio? Anyone see those comments? No, I didn't see these comments. What did he say? He might have said it a while ago, but it got regurgitated and I saw it on social media. But he said, Modern football is increasingly dominated by the coaches, their narcissism, their tendency to put themselves above the team and their players. The players seem to be controlled by a remote. Every youngster has to move like a robot. Football is imagination, not geometry.

45:56I think, I'll go back to my thing in the Premier League. I don't think it's been a great season in terms of ability-wise. There's a lot of tactics and defensively, as we said about Arsenal, lots of skill in itself. But I don't think, you just said it before there, Mike, a Chelsea in the position they're in, I don't think a great Liverpool, I don't think a great City have lost two on the spin. I mean, Brighton, obviously the standout Brighton and Brentford and Bournemouth, and they're having fabulous starts this season and doing great work again. But I don't know, I'm not convinced it's a great season yet. Are you? I think we're not seeing quite as many teams play very defensively and sit in back.

46:39I mean, obviously sometimes you have to and you play a low block, you hit on the counter-attack. I think we've seen slightly less of that. A lot more teams playing with a, trying to play with a high energy and high press. But yeah, I think it's a mixed bag. And don't forget, we're coming off the back of a World Cup. There's a lot of players finding their way after playing deep into the summer. So I think there's been some very good games. I think football's always like this. You have little patches where it's not that good. And then, you know, I remember in my day, you know, when it was probably the most defensive time, football, because, you know, Italian football, that was the way and everyone was copying that sort of thing like they do with the Spanish now.

47:23And it was all a little bit defensive back then but it just goes in ebbs and flows and you get some good games. I've quite enjoyed a lot of games this season. I don't know whether the statistics show that there have been more goals or fewer goals but I think you mentioned there Brighton. They have been the revelation at the start of this season. And yes, they're third in the league. And we've often seen teams, I think, make really good progress at the start of the season. And then it dwindles a little bit. But looking at Brighton, I always look at the goal difference under those circumstances. But Brighton's goal difference is way better than anyone else's. They've kept more clean sheets than anybody else.

48:11And you look at those two stats together and that shows you that this might be a team that can maintain their excellent start to the season. How far they can go, I don't know, but I think they can challenge realistically for a Champions League spot. When you consider what potentially could happen to Man City, if they're hanging around there long enough, then you just never know, do you? But there's no doubt they have been, some of the football that they're playing, they've beaten Arsenal convincingly, got a great result on Saturday against City again. And it was deserved, by the way, because I know the keeper was brilliant for Bruggen, but they could have went 2-0 up just after half-time, missed a big chance.

48:56So there was no fluke there for Brighton. They were outstanding. Yeah, City. I mean, like you said, City had chances, didn't they? Bruggen was. They had a lot of chances but yeah I mean City do what City do essentially control a lot of the game but when they don't score when the game's open they just concede a lot of opportunities don't they and it must be hard I was trying to think about this and under Pep played a certain way. And I'm constantly banging the drums saying, why have they left themselves so exposed? It's the same with Maresca. But maybe when he's just on the ball so much, he's just more liable to that kind of... Of course, that's normal. But I just thought that would have been sorted.

49:41We talked about Rodri. Boardi played, didn't he? Anderson didn't have one of his best games the other day. There was times in the games where he pressed too or he dropped a little bit too deep. But you're going to get them games and you have to give credit to Brighton. They were just a very good side and took the opportunity when it came. I think the one thing I'd say about from my experience of watching Maresca's career, is that he's very much of a tinker man. And it's worked for him, you have to say, generally. It certainly worked for him at Leicester, but he did, you know, he was always shuffling and juggling and he did the same at Chelsea quite a lot. And now he's doing the same for Manchester City.

50:27Can that work against them or will it prove to be a strength? He left Gai out as well, didn't he? Yeah, it was Kusunov and Diaz. Yeah, he said very much. I mean, obviously they're fighting on many fronts, so you have to rotate to a degree. But, you know, he said it, didn't he, after the, I think to rotate to a degree, but, you know, he said it, didn't he? After the, I think it was after a Champions League game, he intimated that he's going to leave a few players out, which he did in the subsequent game. So he does like to tinker a lot, whether that's something that he feels like he needs to keep everybody happy. I don't know, but will that go against him or not? I think for this game though, if you're thinking how the Brighton play,

51:10the high energy, the really good. If you go back to the PSG game where Shirky played and essentially you could see there's playing with a man less off the ball. So I understand at times why he wouldn't play Shirky. But then Foden, I thought Foden would have been given that opportunity, you know, especially at home. At home, you're supposed to be on the front foot. You're thinking Shirky or a Foden. Yes, he was on the front foot in terms of he went with wingers and Jai and Doku. But they missed someone sort of creating that little bit of a moment or a little bit of genius or something. And I've just thought without Foden or Shirky playing in that game, that they've lacked a bit of quality sort of between the lines.

52:01I'm not sure that juggling your team constantly really works. From my experience of watching a lot of football over many decades, the teams that do the best are ones where you, by and large, you pretty much know the starting lineup and the best team. Now, obviously, in these days, and the squad depth is much bigger, but I just think, you know, stop starting playing people in different positions constantly. I mean, obviously, you get some ever-presents like Erling that will always play if he's fit. But they don't seem to have many of those. They've got a lot of... And I just think whether the tinkering works or not, we'll see. We'll see over the course of the season. But from my experience, the teams that are really successful,

52:53by and large, you know the basic spine at least. Even from your own personal point of view, you'd want to play as much as possible. You'd hate to be playing one week and left out the next. And then, yeah, from that point of view, no. Before we go, a little look down the bottom of the table. Oh, we're not going just yet. Why are you ain't quiet? Jackson, let's talk about Villa, baby. Another goal for Nicholas Jackson. It was a good goal as well, eh? What a finish. Oh, interesting. Interesting, Alan. Have you, you know, we had our conversation. Mike, are you his agent? Well, I can't be seen as me. You know what? It's just nice. It's nice to call something when everyone's giving him a bit of a stick.

53:39Oh, he's not that good. I was like, no, I've seen it. If he could just start scoring, which in fairness, you both said, my point was more around his overall game and he did need to score more goals, but now he is scoring more goals, which is good to see. No, it is. I mean, he's got a lot of ability. We've talked about him many times this season on the pod and mainly because you brought him up every time he scored a goal. Yes, every time he scores, I'm going to bring him up every single time. So get it in the script. H, Max, get it in the script. The one thing we talked about overall this season, but it's not easy at present to go look at the bottom of the table and there's, because normally after we get close to 10 games

54:23in the season, there's normally a couple of teams that have hardly got any points whatsoever. But that's not really happening. Even Coventry, they've won, what, three of the last four league games. They're having a really good run. What did I say? Calmer, calmer. Hey, come on, Frank. I'm with you. I'm telling you. Everyone was saying he was going to go down. The evidence from last season told me that he was going to stay up. And now it looks a lot better. I'm not going big saying he's going to stay up. But yes, it looks a lot more convincing. So come on, Frank. Well, none of the bottom three include any of the promoted clubs, which says something. The bottom three Crystal Palace Forest and Sunderland

55:07Palace and Sunderland obviously playing in Europe and I think they've found that difficult Sunderland fans as boisterous this season on you Al have Sunderland fans gone too early we was all tail between our legs when we say they're not going to go down this season come on Sunderland we want you to stay up but you've got to do a lot better yeah because you lot you lot put us on blast in the season you had the little last a little laugh last season you put all on your social media and all that sort of stuff and we apologized and we backed you to stay up so we need a little bit more from you Sunderland. I think the one that's perhaps surprising is Forrest down there at the moment. I think with Glasner's gone there and he did one of his very odd press conferences,

55:56didn't he? Talking about his position as well again there. Did you see the chances they missed, Forrest? Some of the chances oh goodness me yeah massive problem for them. Yeah De Lappe's not really been the answer so far bit like he was at the same at Chelsea as well so they need to improve there and we all know the owner hasn't got a lot of patience with coaches Crystal Palace we predicted it might be a difficult season for them as well. But in the last 20 years, no club sitting on as many points as Hull and Ipswich have at this stage of a Premier League season has gone on to be relegated. So we could actually see all three promoted sides stay up. Interesting, yeah. Still early days though, isn't it?

56:45Still early days. Leeds't it? Still early days. Leeds are getting sucked in at 11. They've had a lot of draws of Leeds. I need a couple more wins from Leeds, to be honest. It's only ever happened four times in the history of the Premier League that all three promoted teams have stayed up. There's a good chance of it then this year, isn't there? The way they've gone, started. Yeah, absolutely. Let's call it a day there because I've got a leaf blower right outside my front door by the sounds of it and we know what we think of leaf blowers that's it for this episode of the Rest is Football goodbye from me have a great week Hi, I'm Katie, your friend and jeweler at Shane Company. As a Shane Company jewelry consultant and gift insider,

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