"Marcus Mumford"

0:00is everybody keeping cool today it's really hot outside super hot sticky it's really good it's like you just sweat looking at it it's so hot right now it's so gross hey what uh is there a back end to your fucking joke you just started sean yeah just wanted to say hi. Just want to say hi, it's hot outside? What kind of cold open is this? It's a hot open. Welcome to Smartless. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. JB, I'm across the street from you. Yeah, no, I know. What do you mean? So wait, so you're up top, right? Yeah, I'm up top. All the way up top? I'm up top. Did you ask? What was the question? Sorry. Yeah. Okay. So I think I can see you. You can see me. I'm not in the window. Wait, are you being serious? You can see the scaffolding. Can you see the scaffolding? Yeah. What's going on up there? Are we doing some remodeling? Do you see like a black bag on the scaffolding that's blowing in the wind? No. Okay.

1:15Because I'm on the south side of the building. South side of your building. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's on the south side of the building. Way up there, there's like a little black bag. No, because the whole building is netted, so I don't see that. Oh, you don't see through the netting. No, I don't. Anywho, so we're neighbors. We've never lived closer to one another. I know. Actually, no. That when you lived in my house with me and my wife. That was so fun. Why does my youngest daughter look so much like you? This is before the kids, and God, your floors are so creaky, and I was just always like, at night, just like, I didn't want to make a sound as I snuck around. Your cigarettes. I was smoking back then too, though, wasn't I? You sure were. Hey, why is your hair so cut? Yeah, it looks good. I just had a little trim ski. Is Eli with you right now? No, I didn't see Eli. I went to see my boy, my guy, Kevin Woon. Why? Are you in a fight with Eli? No, no, no. I just haven't seen Eli. What happened to Eli and you? No. Well. I love Eli. Now, Sean also has a personal hairdresser. Sean, you've got a new person. Who's your person? Yeah, his name is Marco. Hey, hashtag relatable. You both have personal hairdressers? No, it's not personal. They're not full-time employment, you jerk.

2:31Yeah. Kind of. They're on the payroll. Who cuts your hair? Whoever is heading the hair department on whatever project I'm working. That's such a lie. As a matter of fact, she just left the apartment. She is the key hairdresser on the- Oh, yeah. And she came over to the house. Yeah, so that's personal. You're not even in the cast this time. You're the director. So she had to come to the director's apartment. I am doing one road. That's so icky. Who's highfalutin? Unreal. I'm doing one small scene which qualifies as a free cut. His legs are broken so he couldn't come to me. So I had to go to the director's apartment down in fancy part of Manhattan. Okay. So, Sean, you're enjoying your new hairdresser? I am. He's really, really good. Marcos, yeah. So much so that you won't take your hat off. Yeah, take your hat off. Let's see what Marcos is doing to you. Yeah. Well, it's just, you know, I look like Scott. Back on? Back on? Like, Will said I look like a page boy. I didn't say that. I just said it looked like my hair was attached to the hat. You said on Saturday night, you said I look like a page boy. Oh, on Saturday night. And I said, were you going for what scientist? Mad scientist? Because your hair is... My hair was longer because it was all sticking out. And you said, did you just say to them, give me the mad scientist? Yes. And so, Will, you've got a... That's why I cut my hair, because Sean shamed me. Is that true, or is it just like a summer sort of—

3:48or is it swim team? It looks good short like that, Will. You know what I can't believe? That you would habitually chew gum on a fucking podcast. I know. I mean— I'm nervous. He just— By the way, it's not loud the way I'm doing it. You've gotten better at that, but it still sneaks through. And I'll bet you all speak for Rob and Bennett right here. It's getting annoying having to mute your microphone every once in a while. Bennett and Rob, tell me, is it true? We tidy it up. You know what? Some people have nicotine addictions. I have a special relationship with Bennett and Rob. And nicotine. You know what? Our coffee chat's real hyper today. It is. I love it. I'm having one now, too. I'm having the rare 1 p.m. coffee. We're in real Regis and Kathie Lee areas. We're lucky. Lucky to be associated. All right. Do you want to get on with it? Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Do you want to tee up your intro? Yeah. How about you guys how about let's have let's have a a an official guess session here okay let's see if you guys can guess it all right okay great um joining our nonsense today is a fellow who's not yet 40 but is already approaching the 20 year mark with his band. Okay? They are Grammy winners.

5:06They are known and loved worldwide. He was born in California but raised in England. He's got three children with his wife who has been a guest on this very podcast. I know who it is. Let's fucking hear it. It's Chris Martin. No. No. It's Marcus Mumford. Bingo. Get out, Marcus. How about that? How did you know that? How about that for a guest? How did you know that? Because he's a smart person. Marcus, I... I liked my hints. Can I get on with my hints? No, your hints were terrible. I didn't know he was born in California. Well, but his band sounds like a family law firm specializing in personal injury. You didn't even say... Personal injury. It does sound like... It sounds like a plumbing company. It does. That was on purpose, right, Marcus? No, but Marcus, I knew I was just talking about I'm so excited for the doc, and I was just talking about you 10 minutes ago, so excited to come and see it. Are you going to come? Yeah, man. Are you going to come? Oh, sweet. It's just down the street. I might. I might. I might be working, but I might be able to make it. I think my wife will be there, which that's all anybody ever cares about. She's my date. Have you ever guessed a guest from their laugh before they've done the reveal? Because I was really, they freaked me out, man. Your guys freaked me out. They were like, don't breathe until the reveal.

6:22And I wanted to laugh because you're very funny. Did they make you think that we're prone to rage? until the reveal. And I wanted to laugh because you're very funny. Did they make you think that we're prone to rage? Like if we hear... No, they made me feel, you know, in a very polite way, like I would ruin the entire show if I squeak. The whole surprise thing is so... It's such a waste. It just saves us from doing homework. And the audience already knows who it is we're the only two dicks that don't know who the guest is by the time the episode is up how dare you refer to me as the dick but listen it's fun we're having fun okay Jason fun look into it okay Marcus welcome to Smart List it's about time I'm so I'm genuinely so I was early on Smilus. I was very early. You came to the show in L.A. I did. We went to an early screening of Maestro together. We did, yeah. And you said... It was right after our show, and you said, I came to the show, and I said, I was so surprised. It was the night you guys were filming and it was really hectic. Wait, was it, you mean like the live show? Oh, in the dock? Yeah, the one downtown at the theater. I can't remember what it's called.

7:38And I didn't want to bother you because it was super hectic. But yes, I came to the show. But I've been listening to your show for a very long time it's crazy you're ready for notes do you have any notes what would you have got for us yeah how would you change it we're looking to you know what here here the hair shit was a low point i think yeah it's a it's all low points what we do is what we do is we establish the bar low early right just? Just to make the guests see the only way is up. I love it. It's just very cozy. I love it. I'll tell you something, Mark. What's interesting, you brought up something, and we're about to tap into a runner thematically, is that you told me that you were at the show, and I vaguely remember at the time sort of saying, I wish you had said hi, and then you just mentioned it was hectic and you didn't want to say hi. You came to our show and didn't come backstage and say hi, and Jason has thoughts on this. Hold on, hold on. We're not talking Broadway theater. Let's do it, right? I need your opinion on this. It's adjacent. It's adjacent. I went to see, do you know who I went to see last week in Exeter was Tim Key. Now, do you know Tim Key? Oh, yeah. He's brilliant. He's one of my favorite comics of all time. I think he's a genius. And I went and watched his show and was about to leave

8:53and thought to myself, now he knows I'm here. He helped with the tickets. It is rude to leave. Well, that's different. If someone has helped you with the ticket. Amen. Without saying great show. But so how about this, right? So you are a musician and you are in live venues and theaters. And so there are some famous people that come see your shows a lot. Does the same rule apply there? Are you aware who's in there? Are you offended if they don't come back and say, hey, great show? No, culturally very different than music. Very different. Interesting. Very different. See, a i'm more of a rock and roll guy at heart guys then wait what's your position jason are you a no show are you a no show at the show i i think it's presumptuous for people in the audience who are who are famous or even pseudo famous to think that oh they'll be be welcome backstage just because you share fame. That's also my instinct. To come say hi. It's just like, it's so arrogant. Like, just get the hell out. It's more like, you probably want to see me because I'm really famous, so I'll bless you with my presence. Yeah, and let you know how great I think you were. Or not. Or talk about how great the program was, or the lighting, or find something polite to say. There's that there's that famous clip from the madonna documentary truth or dare when kevin costner

10:09comes backstage did you see that and she and he she go he goes yeah i thought and she just spent three hours you know she's drenched in sweat you know performing for 5 000 people and he goes uh he says um yeah we thought it was really neat yeah Yeah, yeah. And she turns to the camera, she goes, anybody who calls my show neat has got to go. Right in front of him. No, he left and she goes, ah, like that on camera. My favorite backstage moment like that, when I was invited, very explicitly invited backstage, was after Kendrick Lamar played Bonnaroo. And there was this sort of message that came down from on high that Kendrick would like to see you. And when Kendrick calls, you come, right? Because he's the king. I learned that lesson the hard way. And it was like, you can go in now. And he took off almost all of his clothes as I walked in. Hang on. It was amazing. It sounds more like Boneroo. We'll be right back after these messages. It was amazing. And I thought like the gumption, you know, the gumption to be like, yeah, come on back after the show. And it'll be the very moment when I take all my clothes off and I'm just down to my undies. It's confidence.

11:24And then we'll have a chat. That's confidence. Real confidence. But aren't you comfortable with that? Like even on a TV set or a film set or whatever, people knock on my trailer door. I'm like, come in. I'm dressing. I don't care. It is a dressing room. Yeah. Yeah, that is true. You know, Marcus, you bring up Tim Key, whom I also adore, and he did that incredible film with your wife. He did. The Ballad of Wallace Island which I loved that film. I did too. Brilliant. Brilliant film, wasn't it? We're not going to get into Kerry's career but I mean, good because I haven't seen a lot of it but that one I've seen three times. I love that one so much. So, me too. You guys, I urge anybody to see The Ballad of Wallace Island. It's such a beautiful little film. It's so funny and poignant and just amazing. Beautiful, me too. You guys, I urge anybody to see The Ballad of Wallace Island. It's such a beautiful little film. It's so funny and poignant and just amazing. Beautiful, beautiful film. Well, I got so into Tim's podcast. He's got like a Radio 4. It's not a podcast. It's a radio show in the UK on public radio. And I got so deeply into it in COVID that when he wrote to Kerry with a script, I was like, you absolutely have to do this movie. Him and Tom Batson together are phenomenal. Tom Batson, amazing too. Yeah. Amazing. And just for my sister, your wife is Carrie Mulligan. Just so for Tracy, my sister, in case she doesn't know. Yeah, hi Tracy. Tracy almost crashed. She was trying to look good.

12:44Hey, Siri. Who is Marcus? She's pulling into Kohler, Wisconsin with her phone in her hand. Wait, so Marcus, getting back to that for one quick second, she can't possibly see all your shows because you're playing almost every night. No, she actually broke a record. So are you allowed to not see all of hers? Yeah, yeah. She came on tour. I think she, in one year, maybe was at 48 shows. Oh, God. And watched two. Not the whole thing. Top and tail. Sure. Yeah. She really, she says she likes our band, our recorded music. There's some caveats. The first time she saw our band play, she thought we were quite shouty. And to be fair, I think she's right about that. But then, you know, she's put up with it for a long time. But then, yeah, she doesn't feel like if she's on the road, she has to come to every show. Wait, Marcus, did you guys meet at summer camp? Am I right that yeah we met at bible camp yeah really like i was i was 10 she was 12 what nice oh yeah nice so they were so you guys were now she started to tell some of the story i think i remember that's right about her they were pen pals right yeah yeah and her and

14:00she still has the journal entry from the day we met where my cousin was there who was two years older, who was age appropriate for her. And he got an eight and a half out of ten. But I, who was definitely not underlined boyfriend material, got a nine out of ten. Wow. Go figure. So then what made you not boyfriend material? Because you were just... You were ten. I was two years younger and I was also a foot shorter. Oh, it wasn't because you were some... It wasn't because you were like... It wasn't because you were a monster running around and being a pain in the ass. No, well, she did write in her journal that I was a bit aggressive on the soccer pitch. Yeah, sure. That I'd gone in a bit heavy on some of the tackles, which lines up. But then we stayed in touch as kids, I guess, and then we reconnected in our 20s. I just love that. And did you lighten up? Are you still a heavy tackler? Well, yes. Yeah. It's one of the few times I'll drop a C-bomb in earnest. Co-ed soccer in the States, particularly. I lived in Denver, and I used to play co-ed soccer. And, you know, you can't retaliate, at least where I come from. You know, a woman tackles you really hard. You can't retaliate.

15:17So, yeah, I get it. Yes, the rage comes out on the football field sometimes. Oh, God. It's a big, big game on right now, Willie. I bet you're taking it. I know, I know. I know, guys, whoever organized this. I know. I can't believe we've done this. I know, I know. I'm watching it. I've got it too. Have you got it on? Okay, great. I just turned it off. But don't spoil it, right? Because I'm going to watch it afterwards. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really intriguing right now, by the way. It's really intriguing. Reddit intrigued. They've just come out of that. I haven't got a live feed because I was thinking about it, and the way. It's really intriguing. Reddit intrigued. They've just come out of that. I haven't got a live feed because I was thinking about it and then I didn't press record. So... Should we take a break and record? Are you in the UK? Marcus, are you in the UK or are you here? Yeah, and so I thought on Champions League final day we'd be safe to do a chat at five or six. Turns out it was an early kickoff, five o'clock. But do you honestly want to take a two-second break and go hit record so you can see the second half? I'll, uh... Do it on your phone, yeah, for sure. No, no, no, no. No? Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. It's fine. If it was an England game. So we have a fairly new management team, last couple years. Who's we? They haven't managed us for a... Thomas Tuchel. They haven't managed... Sorry, band management. Oh, oh, God. They haven't managed our band through a World Cup summer. And it's a big deal trying to manage our band during a World Cup summer because if there's any kind of... We tend not to play on England days

16:33because they're big days. I take this stuff very seriously. And I sat them all down for the third time in about... We delayed the announcement of our tour because they hadn't yet announced what dates and days the group games were going to be. And so business-wise, it was almost a disaster. But we waited for so long because we waited to announce the tour so that we knew we weren't going to be on stage when England were playing, right? And I sat everyone down. I said, look, guys, management's going great. You're doing a really good job. But just so you know, we've had this conversation now three times. I'm deadly serious. If you double book us when England are playing, everyone is fired. Everyone is fired. And I think they've got the message pretty clear now. And I think I'm going to manage to sneak to a couple of games. But it's a big summer. It's a big summer. Yeah. So let's go back to being a kid. Yeah. And we're right in there around summer camp. Where did you grow up? Jason said you grew up in California? No, I was born in California. Oh, you were born. Okay. But evacuated to England at six months old. Oh, so not even... I grew up in London. What were the conditions under which you were born in california why is that my parents were working there for a couple years down in anaheim yeah

17:51for a church and so i was born i popped i popped up along the way and then they came back home to plant a church in london from the californian one god And then at what point then was music introduced to you? Yeah, I mean, it was the kitchen. My mom listened to a lot of music and had a vinyl collection that I was allowed access to quite early on. And then we would listen to music. What were some of those vinyls? It was a lot of classical music and a lot of choral music because she was in a choir at university and stuff. That's cool and then the only two kind of pop records she had or non-classical records were blood on the tracks amazing and house of the rising sun by the animals wow wow and so i played them to death and then and then and then we we leaned heavily into the greatest hits by bruce springsteen that was like the family car record but then so that that explains you that you don't have an aversion or rather you have an attraction to uh or an ability to incorporate these other instruments and instrumentation around your music um some people call it folk i know that that that's not really accurate um but the fact that you can work in all these different sounds and your music, your sound, the band sound is so full and varied. Does that have some roots in the classical music that you

19:13were all those multiple instruments? Yeah, maybe. I think that's partly a reflection of the taste that, you know, amongst the band members, like me and Ben and Ted all have real different tastes in music and it covers most genres ben like ted's the best guitar he's the bass player he's the best guitarist in the band by a long way he plays jazz and blues and kind of studied it yeah but plays the bass in the band which is very kind of um kind actually and then ben grew up playing lots of classical and jazz on piano and saxophone he was a better drummer than me at school. And then, you know, yeah, we cover most of the genres together. And I think we've always felt like whatever instruments suit the song that we're writing at the time. Right. You know, so we leaned heavily into like electric guitars and stuff on the third and fourth records. And now I've kind of come back more to the acoustic stuff. And it's just fun, man. Yeah. We love it. We'll be right back and now back to the show what about you playing so many different instruments that that's not super common right i mean well the key is learning three chords on lots of instruments yeah but i mean there i'd be playing drums is so not the same as playing a guitar is what's more difficult seems like the drums would be very difficult

20:32to master or is it just well i mean that was my instrument at school and i took it fairly seriously and you know did the grading system and and that started with pots and pans in the kitchen with my mom and dad and then and then and then I played all the way through high school. I played at college just for the year that I lasted at college. And then got hired as a drummer in a band. For Laura Marling? So I quit college for Laura Marling, yeah. So I quit college to go play for Laura. Well done. And that was my first job in music. And that's really nice. And so I got hired as a session drummer. And I still like to play drums for people when I get the chance, honestly. Because I love it. And then I learned open tunings on the guitar so that I could play it like a percussion instrument, really, without having to read. I can read drum music. I can't read other music. Oh, what does drum music i can't read you know other music oh really drum music look like yeah drum music x's it's still on a stave yeah there's x's and there's noughts and crosses basically and so like this the snare is an x and the kick drum is a yeah the the kick the kick the bass drum goes at the bottom and then the snare is like two down you know where the c would normally be and the hi-hats are on top and they're normally x, and then the snare is like two down, you know, where the C would normally be. And the hi-hats are on top,

21:48and they're normally Xs, and then the cymbals are on top of that. They stack it. So you know the note? Like there's a line and the black dot? Yeah. Instead, it's a line with an X, and that's percussion. For cymbals, it's an X. Huh. Huh. Wait, Jason and Will, did you guys ever, did you ever try to learn an instrument or no? Piano, I played as a little kid, and then when I got too big to be pushed around, I said, I'm out. Yeah, sure, I understand that. So you always had a great attitude, is that what you're saying? You're consistent. No, it wasn't like... I wish wish i had i wish i'd stayed with him but you know it's like my parents like they said you know like it's a form of discipline you're gonna have to do your practice for an hour every single day yeah so they made it fun exactly like that that was a problem like you know they should have made it fun like any kid you're gonna try to cheat and not practice. And so they set up a tape recorder that I had to put on the piano and press record during my one-hour practice to prove that I was practicing. Of course, it was the same music that I was practicing each and every week. So you just played the same. So you record it once and just turn that in. Record it once. And they bought it.

23:03I mean, it's just, you know, you're not getting any better by Friday each week. That was your audition for It's Your Move. That sounds like a thing your character in It's Your Move would have done. The show Jason did when he was like 15. It was so funny. Mark, because I played over here. It was a brilliant show where he just played a kid who did shit like that all the time. I wish, yeah, I wish I had. I did a couple instruments here and there during school and I wish, I just wish I'd stuck with it. It's one of those, like I wish I'd, I can play four chords on a guitar really sloppily. I just. But let me ask you this, Marcus, to that, to Will's point is like, once you, once you learn and become proficient as you have in so many areas of music and not only music, singing and all that, is can, you don't listen to other music the same way yeah that's whereas somebody whereas somebody like will or jay who love music yeah they you have a different appreciation for it not that you don't if you know it but you know it's just a different ear we had this we had this conversation um the other day we had a party at home. It was Kerry's birthday. And someone came and they were like, there's no music. And I was like, yeah, we don't really play music. I can't do background music. Because if music's on, I want to lean in and listen to it.

24:19And I can't switch that part of my brain off. So then Kerry doesn't like having music in the house because I just stop having a conversation. Like if music comes on, I'll just, and she'll be like, you've gone. I was like, oh, sorry, let's turn it off then, I guess. And then when you listen to it, do you analyze it? The chord progressions, the melodies? Yeah, yeah, normally, you know, and a lot of the time then sort of store it to try and copy it, you know. Yeah, sure, you know, and a lot of the time, then they'd sort of store it to try and copy it, you know. Yeah, sure, sure. Do you listen to a lot of new music at all? Yeah, yeah, I listen to probably mostly new music, actually. And if I'm on my own, that's when I listen to music. And how are you finding the new stuff? Is somebody giving you tips on like, oh, you should check this out? Or how about this, you know, all those streaming services, they figure out what you like and then they send you suggestions and stuff. Do you find that helpful? Do you follow some of those? Sometimes. Some of my favorite music I've found on TikTok when I was on it and now I'm not on it. My new music has dried up a bit, actually. I was on it, and now I'm not on it. My new music has dried up a bit, actually. I was enjoying that. There's an amazing British band called Divorce, great band name, who became my new favorite obsession.

25:35I was completely obsessed with them. We got them to come on tour with us, which was fun. I just found the algorithm fed them to me. So you found them and said, hey, let's get these guys to come on tour with us. Yeah, and then we ended up recording a song together. Oh, that's great. I love that. Wait, you had to cut yourself off from TikTok? Is that what I'm sniffing out? I did, yeah. I just, well, I did it ahead of putting out the new record because I just wanted to be insulated from how other people felt about it because I knew how I felt about it. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I didn't need some comment somewhere from how other people felt about it because I knew how I felt about it. And I didn't need some comment somewhere spoiling my experience because I was happy with it. Good for you. And I couldn't change it. It was done. And this is the first time I've ever put a record out where I genuinely have not read a word about it and I feel free. I love that. That's cool. It's cool. I mean, it's a privilege, obviously, but it's cool. So other people do our socials and stuff, and we send stuff over and we think about it and we're intentional about it, but I don't have to do any of it or be on any of it, which is cool. You must come across bands and stuff when you're touring, too, or if you do a festival. All of a sudden, do you find yourself going, oh, wait, what is that going on over there? And hear somebody that way? Does that ever happen? Yeah, yeah. And a lot of the time, it's just recommendations from mates.? And like, and here's somebody that way. Does that ever happen? Yeah, yeah. And a lot of the time, it's just recommendations from mates, you know. They're like, you should listen to this. And sometimes when we're discussing who to come on the road,

26:52one of us will pipe up with something we've been listening to, you know, because we're very intentional about who comes out and supports us on tour. Because those are the shows I go to now. Yeah, right. You know, mostly. And I'll go, and every night, I don't like playing a show without watching the support band first because it just gets me in the mood and it makes me feel what the room's like. Yeah, of course. Yeah. There's a new English band that I've been obsessed with, West Side Cowboy. Have you heard these guys? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're so fucking good, man. Didn't they support Geese on their run? Oh, did they? I think they support, yeah, them and Dove Ellis. So that, I found Dove Ellis through Geese because I knew he was on the road with them. And I'm like, you know, the rest of the internet obsessed with them. And yeah, that's how I found Dove Ellis. So a lot of the time it's just like, who's playing with who? And these little communities that pop up, which we were part of when we first started as a band. And that's really how people discovered us because they'd come to a Laura Marling. That's how Carrie found out about our band. She booked a ticket to a Laura Marling show. And then we started shouting sort of an hour before Laura went on. And then she was like, oh, Mumford. I knew a kid called Mumford. And that's so, I love those little communities. No way. Yeah, yeah. And she left a note with our tour manager. She didn't come backstage. No, she left a note. See, yeah. She left a note with our tour manager. She didn't come backstage. No, she left a note. See, that's classy.

28:09That's really classy. Well, wait. So I'm embarrassed. She probably told us this. I apologize for forgetting. But so on the note, did she say, hey, so I did know this guy named Mumford. I forget his first name. Is his name? No, do you know what? We were both, I guess, for a what like a six month window when i was still at college and we connected there and then this was like a couple years after that when we'd started the band and i was still playing in laura's band and so she left a note with our tour manager with her email address on it i think wow but so knowing that it was you once she saw you on stage maybe? Yeah, yeah. You know what's great about this, Marcus? But also email, not the phone number. Just another layer. You know what I mean? Slow play, real classy. She's got skills. She's a classy broad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A classy broad. When did you know that music might actually be a path towards a living for you as opposed to just fun when you were a kid? I'm convinced. Still in some state of arrested development. What a base. Now, that was a band. For Sean, that's a TV show that was on. I've got to write that down. For Sean. Not for Tracy. For Sean. Is it playing now? It was also a good band. I think it's like I think it's like

29:25I was at college I got offered a job playing music I wasn't having a great time at college so I stopped and took a sabbatical where'd you go to college I think Edinburgh okay and I think in my head I'm still on until quite recently I've been on my sabbatical from college sure sure you mean thinking that you would probably go back? Yeah. And what would you have studied if you'd gone back? I was doing classics. I was doing Greek and Latin. What, literature? To do what? Unclear. You know, it's not a vocational. No, it isn't. Just reading? It's what a lot of lawyers end up doing. To be a monk? Yeah. Classics in the UK particularly is seen as like a good, honest, old school degree to do if you're doing something. But what do you do with that degree? I don't understand. He said lawyers, yeah. Oh, lawyers. Well, what's cool about it is that... Become a member of parliament. Yeah, a lot of those. A lot of prime ministers do it. But I wasn't on that track um uh what's cool about it is it gives you access to poetry and philosophy and storytelling and language and linguistics anthropology ancient history all these things that you study through the original languages jason you're drooling your mouth is open so it's really geeky and you get

30:44your geek goggles out when you're yeah yeah i bet it helps you. Your mouth is open. So it's really geeky. And you get your geek goggles out when you're talking about it. I bet it helps you when you write lyrics. And it's how I got introduced to poetry. It's how I fell in love with words, honestly. And then I started reading T.S. Eliot really pretentiously as like a 17 year old. And suddenly words had a new depth to them. And, you know, he was a classicist too and was the references a lot of classical references and i'd sort of read a bit of homer and then switch over to elliot and be like oh cool look at the way they've joined he's joined up and referred back to this yeah can't you just see 17 year old marks just riding a bicycle through the some field and then just like dropping into a field and reading poetry yeah with a bet a baguette and a basket on the bike. I was that guy. I was sat on the train to Edinburgh wearing thick fabric and a collar that I cut the collar off my shirt because I'd seen the assassination of Jesse James and just got deep into poetry. And honestly, until this last record, I've been in denial about that record, I've been in denial about that too. Like, you know, I've been in this process of being like, this is kind of who I am now. This is what I do. So, so for Prizefighter, I'd go and sit in the coffee shops in Hudson, New York, because we were recording with Aaron Destin at Long Ponder and I'd sit in the coffee shop

32:00for two hours every morning and I'd do my, my artist's way, like morning pages and i'd sit and read poetry like a real twat and just really lent into my i guess my identity at this point and it and it helped me write lyrics you know um let's let's get let's hit babble for a second here so what what did what did the incredible success of that album do for you as like personally like was that was it jarring to sort of have that that next step of success and recognition and treasure and like was it did you adapt well to that was it was it a fun thing or was it a bit disruptive that That's a great question, actually. Thank you. Finally. For once. I don't think anyone, unless you're maybe one of Simon Cowell's projects, I don't think you're trained to have that kind of level of success. We started playing music because we loved playing. We loved each other. And it was just fun. And we got free beers. And then suddenly, we were playing 250 shows a year. And then suddenly, the first record starts gaining some pace. We took six weeks off tour to make Babel,

33:20which our producer at the time was really frustrated about. He's like, why do you have shows booked on the other side of a recording process? That's really dumb, creatively. But we rushed it and i think we we got it right but it was pressurized and then and then the success of that record around the world really and particularly in the states just opened us up to a world we weren't like ever anticipating or planning for and um yeah i mean i don't think unless you're a kind of pop project you're you're you're even imagining it and then suddenly the shows are all selling out and you're moving into bigger spaces and and fulfilling lots of your dreams as a kid like to headline glastonbury yeah we only did it on two records. I remember getting to the end of the set. We basically had to play the whole of both records to fill the time. And I remember getting to the end of the set and just being like, we just need more songs, man. That's all we got. We need more songs. Because you watch Springsteen play for three hours and he's playing just hit after hit after hit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, I wasn't really prepared for the success of that record and i think we reacted to it a bit by making a record on the third one that no one was expecting from us no one particularly wanted but we we loved it and it took us into bigger

34:37rooms as well and that was how it went widescreen and then and then the fourth record then we had a long gap before the fifth and sixth records. Yeah, how long was that gap? That was like on paper, it was seven years. I mean, we were touring for two of those after Delta came out and then COVID happened. Yeah. So we were apart as a band for maybe three years, yeah. That's a lot. What was that biggest adjustment there when that first wave of big success came in? I mean, obviously, most notable would be the bigger crowds biggest adjustment there when that when that first wave of big success came in um i mean obviously most notable would be the bigger crowds and the sellouts and probably nicer hotels and you're flying from city to city instead of the buses maybe or like just silly things like that but it must have been pretty heady too right you're what you're watching people you know sing your songs um on mass uh and uh probably getting some feedback as to how you're affecting people and changing their lives a bit and um you know probably a a weaker more insecure person would probably buy into that a lot and kind of uh own a lot of that but i'll bet i'll bet you sort of deflected a bit of that and tried to keep it all about the music and keep it simple and i mean but you you tell me it drove a bit of my shame narrative that was already there that i've looked at a little bit i drank a bit more than probably i should have

35:55like imposter kind of stuff yeah a bit of that yeah a bit of that for sure and uh i i did i went in a bit yeah and on stage you'd be be very out, you know, give yourself completely. And then my friendship circle shrunk a bit. I think, yeah, I did use booze particularly as a bit of an escape. And then really throughout it all, honestly, my marriage has just been the best thing about everything. Yeah, yeah. But I think as we get older, it's sort of naturally and in a very healthy way, I think, most people, that circle gets smaller. You figure out more accurately who you are and what the proper fits are for you. And that usually equates to a smaller, more specific, more precise experience with people, right? You're not out there shopping as much for... Yeah. And I think I recognize the idea of capacity. Because for a few years there, particularly, I was spread really thin. I mean, you guys must find this with your jobs as well. You meet so many people and a lot of them you love and then you want to be friends with and then you connect with other people. And then I found myself getting spread really thinly

37:10and not being very good friends to my friends. Right, right. And then that shrinking happened a bit. So in a kind of healthy way, I think. So I guess, yeah, I think you're right. It's partly growing up. But yeah, I suppose I dealt with it all in a bit of unhealthy ways then i then i stopped drinking booze more out of choice than necessity although you know we could debate that and then and then replaced it with ice cream for a while until i was told you know um i wasn't losing any weight i was really confused about the whole thing we have we have similar paths in that way. I did the same. I did that route too, where it was like an ice cream-based diet after I quit boozing. Well, because you miss the sugar. I remember that. Yeah, I miss it too. Wait, Marcus, you know, I'm always kind of interested in... It's probably been an hour. At least. I'm starting to shake um um you know i'm always interested when when people like you who have bands and you i mean you tell me have you did you have vocal training or know any or how to use your voice or because when i go for example i'm a massive depeche mode fan they came on the podcast it It was really wild.

38:25I'm also a huge fan of yours. And I love all kinds of music too. And I went to go see Dave Gahan sing. And I can tell right away, oh, he didn't warm up. And then after the first couple songs, his voice kind of opened up a little bit. And then it was great. And it was great from the beginning too. But just kidding. Reach out and touch faith. And then do you do, did you have any kind of training or did you realize when you were touring like, oh shit, I don't know how to take care of the kind of athleticism of my voice. Yeah. I was convinced for years that whiskey and cigarettes really helped. Yeah, right. And then just recently, I've started, actually Brandy Carlile introduced me to her vocal coach, a guy called Rob Stevenson, who's totally changed my world and given me some education on stuff. Like it's a muscle and you have to warm it up. And I've been lucky not to, and I watched friends around me get affected by the polyps thing and losing their voices. We've never, I don't think we've cancelled a show for my voice in the past. That's amazing. Which has been cool. Like the only couple of shows that I remember cancelling were because Ted had a brain hemorrhage.

39:44Oh, jeez. Which wasn't funny at all. No. Get up. But now it's quite funny because he had to wear a hat for a while. But he headlined Glastonbury two weeks after getting that surgery, like a legend. And I think we cancelled two shows for that. But we've just been lucky and my voice has been resilient. Amazing. But I think recently I've realized it's a muscle. Now I start, and now I have a full routine and I look after it and I quit smoking and all that stuff. Yeah, good, good, good. And we will be right back. And back to the show. What does that mean about the polyps? Because I had polyps removed from my vocal cords. It means you're weak psychologically. Oh, damn it. Yeah. It's the piano lesson thing. It's because it's a piano. Your parents were right. It was character development. You missed that one. No, but the doctor did say that I wasn't using my voice correctly because I was like screaming in bars, you know, and smoking cigarettes and stuff. And he said that's, I just, I wrecked it that way. Is that what happens to musicians or to singers that don't know how to warm up correctly? A user, like you can create polyps on your vocal cords?

40:59Yeah, I don't know. I honestly don't know. I think the wear and tear of it is true. Yeah. I know that like going out after show, I just don't know. I think the wear and tear of it is true. I know that going out after a show, I just don't ever do that anymore because talking in loud rooms after shows is the thing that is worse for your voice. Yeah, for sure. So after a show, I don't go on voice rest. I'm not like precious about it. But I don't go out and I stay away from loud places. Well, you also have a wife you love and three kids that you got to go spend time with too you know also i've just become quite boring and monkish you know on the Jason Amanda ever develop polyps oh boy i'm screaming that's your date that's your date and she may cancel on you I love her I love her more than anything in the whole world I lost my voice two days ago actually a little bit really? yeah too bad you found it wait Will have you ever checked go ahead okay I lost mine two weeks ago yeah it's still it's still weak I still like if I ever did theater I'd have a real I would need to take real lessons about how to use my hours. Have you not done theater? No. I mean, tiny, small room stuff. But like if I ever did it, you know, here in New York, I'd need help. Jay, I was thinking the same thing when I,

42:15yesterday, I didn't fully lose it, but I was really close and I thought, I was just thinking about you, Sean, and about how you've been basically on stage for the last three years. Yeah. Kind of straight. Yeah. It's kind of straight. Yeah. And Marcus, you must have the same thing. And I'm going through this thing of like, if I were in a play right now, I'd be fucked. I wouldn't be able to do it today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you really have to take care of it. And Sean, do you do like a full hour every night before you? Yeah. And there's songs that I'll sing to warm up. Like if I... I know if I'll sing all by myself and if I can hit that high note. Let's have it. All by myself. Then I can do the whole show. Sick. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's funny. And you usually do it through tears, right? Right. No, that's the song because that was a one-man show. So I would sing all by myself. Marcus, do you have a go-to little thing that you do for warm-up? Like a little scale thing or something like that? Yeah, I do. It's called the penguin noise. It's a lot of this. That's good. Oh, really? Yeah. And then vocal straws. I use straws. It's about like, I mean, we could get techers if you want, but it's about getting your larynx to drop back down, like putting your tongue at the back of your throat. And opening your palate.

43:31With a straw? Literally with a straw? And then the straw helps with back pressure. So you blow bubbles into a bottle through a straw, and then the back pressure helps open that up and ease all that out it's like a little reverse massage do you ever actually do you ever accidentally throw up do you ever accidentally throw up when you do it i i can't eat like four hours before we go on stage because then bits come up yeah yeah no because it's all quite shouty you know yeah that's why jason you actually you accidentally throw up after a lot of big meals, don't you? Yeah. Oh, darn it. But I hold his hair. I hold his hair. I've got to get it out inside 10 minutes. Otherwise, it starts to absorb the fat. Okay. So, Marcus. Marcus, we're a month into your tour. What is the, what will have been the most important part of your prep to go on some long tour like do you have to get you know your family stuff all in order so that it can withstand you being gone so long do you have to get your body in order so it can withstand the hours and like what what what what is what is prep for a long time i have been i have been trying to approach i got to a point a couple years ago i

44:48was like there is an element of physicality to my job that requires me to train a bit yeah so i have been i have been working on that and trying to approach it more like an athletics program and everything else will follow if i can do that stuff well. What are we looking at? Cardio? Are we pushing weight? What's our training? All that stuff. All of it. Really? Yeah, and then we have a little gym on the road that helps. There's a lot of card... It turns out that singing, playing guitar, and stamping like this with your feet, which you must remember, Jason, from that video. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Jay was in the video. So fun. That stuff turns out is some sort of cardio. I used to think it was enough to... I was spent. Yeah, it's exhausting. Wait, talk about how did that happen? How did Jason Bateman end up in your video? Less disdain. No, I spit it out. How the fuck did Jason Bateman end up in your video? It was ourain. No, I spit it out. How the fuck did Jason Bateman It was our friend Sam Jones, wasn't it? He called you out. Oh, yeah. Or was it Sudeikis? I think maybe I was doing horrible bosses at the time. Maybe it was, I'll bet you Sam contacted, I didn't know Sam, so he wouldn't have contacted me. So it would have been

46:03probably Sudeikis or Ed or Will. Yeah. And then they, I don't know how they got to me. It must have got a lot of passes before they got to me. But God, that was so fun. Probably my favorite music video we've ever done because I didn't have to do anything. And I just got to watch you guys do it. It was absolutely amazing. Forte killed me on that. Yeah, well, Forte was it, too. The kiss. that oh yeah well forte was with a kiss the kiss the kiss the hard kiss um all right so but so that brings us to sam that brings us to the doc let's talk about the doc let's talk about the train tour let's talk about you arranging for those other groups and and uh you know because you spoke earlier about picking you know the the bands that you guys are interfacing with. So just, well, let's go in order. What's it like traveling on a train that long with that many people? It's really exhausting. It's not, I don't recommend it. It's very confined. It's like being on a submarine. It's worse than a tour bus. Right. And I mean, it was the most. Sorry, tell the audience what the basic concept of this thing. And it was inspired by the, this happened, Woody Guthr most... Sorry, tell the audience what the basic concept of this thing... And it was inspired by the... This happened, Woody Guthrie and gang, right? Yeah, I think they did it. Basically, someone came to us, you know, I don't know, 2011, and said, we have access to a bunch of vintage rail cars.

47:19Do you want to go on tour on a train? Yeah. And we, at that point, were like, we'd just done a tour of india yeah well before we had any reason to do a tour of india you know we toured on a narrow boat we like putting up our own festivals it's just like fun ways of like making the shits feel slightly different and discovering bits of the world you might not otherwise so we were feeling adventurous and we said yes we did it with edward sharp the Magnetic Zeros with Old Crow Medicine Show and it was the best week on the road we've ever had and we made a film and it won a Grammy and we were all very happy it was great and so we thought let's run it back slightly differently let's hire like let's get all our favourite musicians together as a house band and then every night we'll get special guests to come on stage with us so we had laney wilson darius rucker maggie rogers and noah khan and we learned their songs the day before wow and performed like the house band for them and it was really fun and we did it yeah we traveled by train but that's not really the audience participation part because obviously it was just us and crew that went on the trains but um it was and it was only five days so it's manageable but it was exhausting but you've got sam and his gang with the cameras uh in there yeah documenting

48:35the yeah yeah so sam made this film for it um which i really love actually i i don't enjoy the process of making music films i think in general they're quite boring um. I don't enjoy the process of making music films. I think in general they're quite boring, and I don't really watch them for pleasure. It can feel like a reality show, right? Yeah, a little bit. And yeah, I find it quite hard to relate to a lot of them. Obviously, the Beatles one is my favorite of all time, and I've watched that many times. But other than that, I don't get a huge amount of enjoyment from watching. This one, especially not our ones. But this one, I actually think he did something really beautiful with, and the people involved were unbelievably kind with their time. We made it kind of like a socialistic enterprise where everyone got paid the same, and whatever cash there was left in the pot after very expensive trains, we just shared out. And then our friends really gave us their time. And they're phenomenal musicians. And we had a really good time. I was going to say for Tracy, but she knows because she met Sam when we were on tour. Sam Jones is the same guy who did the Smartless on the Road special that we did. So we all know Sam. Yeah, that's so cool. I didn't know that's so cool i didn't know he i didn't know he did this and i didn't know anything about this when can i made a film with him before he made the the documentary about the new basement tapes thing that we did with elvis costello and

49:56jim james and i don't know about this and giddens we took old bob dylan lyrics that t-bone burnett had like pilfered off dylan and asked if we could record music for them and and Dylan amazingly said yes they were literally from shoeboxes and the big pink from the 60s and so we wrote music to all these unused lyrics which was really fun and Sam made a documentary that so I'd worked with him before and obviously he he shot our Rolling Stone cover which I hate but he also made that Hopeless Wanderer video that Jason was in. So we'd worked with him a bit before and he came on and did it. And it was sweet. And he also made the Wilco doc, I'm Trying to Break Your Hearts, which is also amazing. It's so great. It's so good. I want to see that doc you were just talking about. I want to see that one where you guys with the Dylan. Oh, it's sweet. Yeah, it was good. It was a while ago. Me too, actually. Go ahead, Sharni. I was a while ago. Yeah, me too, actually. Go ahead, Tony. I was just going to do my standard, like, do you have any, like, one show or one fan interaction on stage that just went horribly wrong or something that went horribly wrong on stage during a tour? Yeah, yeah, recently. We started the Prizefighter tour in Australia. Yeah. And we played a song for the first time. And it went so badly wrong, we stopped halfway through. And we didn't start the song again. No way.

51:12I love that, though. Oh, my God. I love that. What did you say? I said, that's live music, folks. And we moved on. And I wanted to fall through the floor so badly. It was the worst. I think it was the worst moment I've ever, ever had. Why did you stop? Oh, it was just a disaster. Everyone was in the wrong key and wrong time. It was just a disaster and would have required a full rehearsal to do it. And I thought that was probably pushing it. So we just stopped and moved on to one thing. And you just thought, we'll get this. We'll get this. Watch this. Six, seven, eight. It was awful. It was awful. It was so horrible. I'll bet you the audience loved it though. Like kind of, watch this, six, seven, eight. It was awful. It was awful. It was so horrible. I'll bet you the audience loved it, though, like kind of, you know, like a blooper, you know? Yeah, so cool. Yeah, I think, you know, yeah, my wife says things like that because I forget lyrics a lot. When I get nervous, my memory goes, and I'll forget a lyric sometimes, and she'll be like, that's the bit people love. That's the live bit that's different to the record. I toured with Kenny Rogers when I was in my early 20s as a Christmas elf in his tour. Amazing. He would forget the lyrics all the time and whenever he did, he would just hold the microphone out to the audience. You got to know when to hold them. Sean, I thought you'd go, hey Santa, the lyric is... Shuffle over like a little helpful elf. Hey. Have you ever done that on stage, though?

52:29Because that terrifies, especially with a one-man show. Have you ever forgotten your lines? Yeah, yeah. There's one, I just did it. It's absolutely terrifying. There is one part where the line is, you know, I say to one of the characters, I say, are you going to be here? How long are you in town for? And he says, the weekend. I say, can we get together and discuss this one thing? He says, sure. And then I say, your last name is Dupain. And then one night I go, as one of the characters, I go, how long are you in town for? He goes, the weekend. And I go, can we get together? And I go, ah. weekend and i go can we get together and i and i go uh and i go and then i go to myself i go wait how long are you in town for to the character and i go i just told you i'm in town just for the weekend and and it bought me time to think of what line was next and did you get there yeah thank god and do you think people noticed? No, they don't fucking know. Yeah. And certainly the stage manager that was asleep in the wings not throwing you the line didn't notice either, right? Right, yeah. They just watch. That scares the living daylights out of me. Yeah, it is pretty scary. All right, before we let you go because we're two minutes over here, I want to know how being a parent has changed the way that you listen to music or write music yeah

53:45i'm assuming they go with you a little bit but does it's got to change the way you are as an artist as a musician yes yeah yeah i think it's i think it's been a healthy i think it's been a wonderful antidote to my narcissism because like you can't just you can't just be the said i mean you probably can but i found it difficult to remain the center of my universe yeah with these little ones around yeah and it puts everything else in perspective in such a helpful way for me amen i've found it yeah like so if you're asking about how it's how my work, it makes me more intentional when I go to work. And actually scheduling-wise, I just want our team to pack as much as they can into as short a period of time as possible. So I'll go away and I'll work really, really hard for whatever period of time I'm away, and then I come home sooner than I would have if the schedule had been more easy, you know? And I would imagine when you do come home, that is the thing you are most addicted to completely indulging in, right? You are rationally excited to just like dive headfirst into family. Yeah, I want to get home, you know, like one of the guys really likes doing the day,

55:01I just want to get home as soon as possible. I don't care which flight it is. And then hopefully be there for the school run the morning after. And that's why dropping booze for me has been so helpful. It's just made my life more functional. Get up earlier. Because I get home, I'm not dusty. You know, I'm like, it's just being like present as fast as you can in an accelerated manner, it feels like. So it's made me more present, I think. Yeah, yeah. And then more grateful when I get to go and do my work and go and play these shows. I just feel grateful for it. I'm in this season of gratitude with the band that I'm just really enjoying because I'll go away and be like, I've got to make the absolute most of this because it's awesome and it's amazing. It's such a privilege. And our audience have been so kind to us and continue to grow. And that's just felt like wild. And so I want to be really good. I want to be really great at that. And that takes time and attention. That obviously is a cost balance, you know. But I'm just attacking it. Well, you are. Well, yeah, you start to value. Sorry, Jay, I was just going to say, I've gone through that too in the last couple of years. It's like if you are going to do something that's taking you away from home and the kids and all this stuff, it's got to be valuable.

56:19Exactly. And if you're going to do it, you do it wholeheartedly. And then you go, because you really just want to be home. So it's got to be meaningful. Well, we're grateful of the time you do spend away from them because you are incredible at it. Keep going at it. And maybe we'll see you for the doc down the street. I will see you, Jason. With my wife. The woman he. Yeah. With my wife. The woman he'll be with is my wife, and I want a full report, Marcus. Take some pictures for me. I'm really excited to see you guys. Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. Likewise. Oh, thank you for doing this. Oh, a privilege. Oh, man. Yeah. Thank you, lads. We're such fans. Enjoy the rest of your day, pal. Enjoy the game. Thank you. See you guys. Okay, bye, pal. Peace lads. We're such fans. Enjoy the rest of your day, pal. Enjoy the game. Thank you. See you guys. Okay, bye, pal. Peace. Bye. That was Double M, as I like to call him. Double M's. I call him M&M. He loves it. It was great. By the way, wasn't that crazy that at the beginning, we were talking about our hair, and you said, what's the name of your new hairdresser? And I said, Marcos. No, it's not. Mar marcos mumford yeah i just don't think and then the guest name was mark well it's m-i-r-c-o-s so it's the same it's still the same going with this sean but you know it's

57:38not it's not that crazy it's not No. I think that's really wild. I mean, what are the odds of that? What are the odds? He's great, though. I mean... What are the odds? He is great. That I didn't, you know, I never knew anything about him. I really like his flavor of British accent. Yeah, me too. I noticed that too. And I like that too. It's melodious. Yeah, me too. I noticed that too, and I like that too. It's melodious. Yeah, it's nice. It's calming. There are definitely different regions of the British accent. Oh, which ones aren't there, Jason? There's sort of the aristocratic sound. There's the Liverpudlian. There's the slightly Scottish. There's the Welsh, right? Will, you're the guy over there. How dare you. How very dare you. Right? And like I wouldn't be able to... You're okay. You're from Liverpool. You're okay. You're right. You're right, Jason. Yeah, see? You can't just do a regular British accent if you're going to play a character. It's got to be region specific. Yeah. He's such a nice dude It's got to be region-specific. Yeah. He's such a nice dude. I'm really excited for the doc. I can't wait to see it. I didn't know anything about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's going to be really good. What time are you going to pick my wife up?

58:54And what are you going to wear? Well, she's spending the night, so I think that we're going to... Hang on. We're going to be... We'll just get ready together, you know? By the way, I was just talking to her right before this. She says, hello, Jason. Oh, yeah. I have not spoken to her yet today. You guys really do more time on the phone than me. We can decide if we want to cut this. I said, are we doing dinner Sunday? And she goes, I'm not sure. And if we don't do dinner, I go, well, we can get dinner. She goes, no, if we're not doing dinner with all of us getting together, I'm doing a full moon women's circle. LOL, hold your tongue. full moon women's circle. LOL. Hold your tongue. Full moon women's circle. There is some kind of a full light bulb up in the sky coming up here soon. How about that? Wait, and what do you do in the circle? I'll call her. I don't know. Maybe I'll do that. Yeah, we'll trim this. Alright, who's got a buy? Anybody got a buy? Maybe I'll do that. Yeah, we'll trim this. All right. Who's got a bye? Anybody got a bye? Wait, didn't I try to start something new last week? If we ever did a week where we didn't throw out a bye, we would have to call that the bye week. The bye week. We get a bye. Don't need to keep saying it. Bye. We get a bye. Don't need to keep saying it. Bye. Smart. Less. Smart.

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